Automatic cars in UK?

[Craig1912]

Got my first auto 3 years ago (bmw430) and just got a 330e auto. Far more relaxing to drive, can change gear quicker than I can in manual and more economical. Sports manual mode is good for a bit of fun. Would never go back to a manual for day to day driving.

 

[gman]

Got my first auto 3 years ago (bmw430) and just got a 330e auto. Far more relaxing to drive, can change gear quicker than I can in manual and more economical. Sports manual mode is good for a bit of fun. Would never go back to a manual for day to day driving.

The auto box in the BMWs are good, although I never liked using them in semi-auto mode as 8 gears was a lot to work through and because the six pots are quieter I found it harder to hear the engine note so it distracted me from actually driving.

 

[woof woof]

(I actually wonder why people insist on internal combustion engines, but that's off topic for another thread)

I suppose it is another topic but later his week I'll be driving about 300 miles with a stop for about 45 minutes in the middle and I don't think there's a non combustion engine car that could do that.

 

[wyx087]

Sorry for going off topic.......... but there's a misconception or bad generalisation. To be fair, it's a developing tech. Similar to when general public didn't realise benefit of matured digital camera in the late 90's. Or 2008 where people still insist their Nokia is a smart phone, you need a keyboard to type with, and believe 1 day battery life is an issue. EV is currently equivalent to 2008 of smart phone years.

I suppose it is another topic but later his week I'll be driving about 300 miles with a stop for about 45 minutes in the middle and I don't think there's a non combustion engine car that could do that.

- Any Tesla (range 200+ miles, drive 180 and supercharge in 45min to over 80% state of charge)
- Jag I-Pace (one battery size, has range of 250 miles, drive 200 miles and charge at 50kW for 45min to regain 100 miles. The car is capable of rapid charging at 100kW)

Cheaper:
- Hyundai Ioniq (one 30kWh battery size, range of 120 miles, drive 100 miles between two 30min stops, the car can also capable of 100kW charging, possible to cut each charging time by half)
- Nissan Leaf 40kWh (range of 150 miles, but it doesn't have battery temperature management, depend on ambient temperature, you may need to wait longer at charging stops)

Coming later this year:
- Kia Niro EV / Hyundai Kona EV (long range version has 64kWh battery, good for 200+ miles, also has 100kW charging, so it perform similar to I-Pace at more affordable price)
- Nissan Leaf 60kWh (200+ miles range, has battery temperature management, making one 45min stop possible)

Then there's the question of how often do you drive 300 miles. The cost saving of running on electricity vs expensive fossil fuel alone may be worth the effort of being restricted to charging spots along the way due to currently lacklustre infrastructure. It costs me 2.5p per mile in my EV whereas my 55mpg diesel costs me over 10 per mile not including non-service maintenance: timing belt and DSG oil changes (£180 for 40k miles, so need to +0.45p per mile)

By 2021, you should be able to buy a second hand Leaf 60 or Niro/Kona EV for £15k, similar price to a pre-reg similar sized ICE car. It is able to cover most of Britain with 2 rapid charging breaks. Daily use cost less than 3p per mile.


Currently, I'm considering to hiring a Tesla from White Car in Edinburgh and drive the North Coast 500 as a week and half long holiday. If B&B's provide overnight charging, I wouldn't have to worry about managing the car's energy. Unlike my Skoda diesel, only 500 miles per tank, I'd have to pay extortionate price at a remote petrol station.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Sorry for going off topic.......... but there's a misconception or bad generalisation. To be fair, it's a developing tech. Similar to when general public didn't realise benefit of matured digital camera in the late 90's. Or 2008 where people still insist their Nokia is a smart phone, you need a keyboard to type with, and believe 1 day battery life is an issue. EV is currently equivalent to 2008 of smart phone years.


- Any Tesla (range 200+ miles, drive 180 and supercharge in 45min to over 80% state of charge)
- Jag I-Pace (one battery size, has range of 250 miles, drive 200 miles and charge at 50kW for 45min to regain 100 miles. The car is capable of rapid charging at 100kW)

Cheaper:
- Hyundai Ioniq (one 30kWh battery size, range of 120 miles, drive 100 miles between two 30min stops, the car can also capable of 100kW charging, possible to cut each charging time by half)
- Nissan Leaf 40kWh (range of 150 miles, but it doesn't have battery temperature management, depend on ambient temperature, you may need to wait longer at charging stops)

Coming later this year:
- Kia Niro EV / Hyundai Kona EV (long range version has 64kWh battery, good for 200+ miles, also has 100kW charging, so it perform similar to I-Pace at more affordable price)
- Nissan Leaf 60kWh (200+ miles range, has battery temperature management, making one 45min stop possible)

Then there's the question of how often do you drive 300 miles. The cost saving of running on electricity vs expensive fossil fuel alone may be worth the effort of being restricted to charging spots along the way due to currently lacklustre infrastructure. It costs me 2.5p per mile in my EV whereas my 55mpg diesel costs me over 10 per mile not including non-service maintenance: timing belt and DSG oil changes (£180 for 40k miles, so need to +0.45p per mile)

By 2021, you should be able to buy a second hand Leaf 60 or Niro/Kona EV for £15k, similar price to a pre-reg similar sized ICE car. It is able to cover most of Britain with 2 rapid charging breaks. Daily use cost less than 3p per mile.


Currently, I'm considering to hiring a Tesla from White Car in Edinburgh and drive the North Coast 500 as a week and half long holiday. If B&B's provide overnight charging, I wouldn't have to worry about managing the car's energy. Unlike my Skoda diesel, only 500 miles per tank, I'd have to pay extortionate price at a remote petrol station.

All of the above would get me to Birmingham or London and back no problem, as long as you are in the big T or the cat. That's the "boring" day jobs covered. A trip to Skye would be problematic. You would get to Glasgow OK with a couple of 45min delays at motorway services, then what? Going through montainous terrain will suck the batteries dry far quicker, particularly in the winter. So you may want to recharge in Glencoe. Good luck with that. I don't even want to contemplate a run to Pyreness or Italian alps in one of these. Let's just say they have some more work to do over the next few years to really tempt me while dropping the price down.

Hopefully you can see the problem
https://goo.gl/maps/FsuBbwW6F4T2
https://goo.gl/maps/cCpuVrZuLpz

 

[wyx087]

All of the above would get me to Birmingham or London and back no problem, as long as you are in the big T or the cat. That's the "boring" day jobs covered. A trip to Skye would be problematic. You would get to Glasgow OK with a couple of 45min delays at motorway services, then what? Going through montainous terrain will suck the batteries dry far quicker, particularly in the winter. So you may want to recharge in Glencoe. Good luck with that. I don't even want to contemplate a run to Pyreness or Italian alps in one of these. Let's just say they have some more work to do over the next few years to really tempt me while dropping the price down.

Hopefully you can see the problem
https://goo.gl/maps/FsuBbwW6F4T2
https://goo.gl/maps/cCpuVrZuLpz

This is more accurate source for EV chargers: https://www.zap-map.com/live/

Yes, viability of EV for long distances depends on rapid chargers. There are places currently difficult to reach. But unless you need to cover great distances at those places on a daily basis. It makes more sense to have a car that's actually suited for your needs.

Another misconception is that one must wait at a charging station to charge. Any place with electricity is a charging point, only difference is speed. So during a road-trip holiday, if the hotel allows overnight charging, you are able to drive without worry about the vehicle's energy reserve. I have not visited any public charger in months because I drive within my EV's daily range, so there's no need to stop for fuel.

On the few occasions one might be driving long distances, the public charging infrastructure is currently EV's biggest downside. So many payment methods and apps. I would not be comfortable renting an EV outside of UK. Only EV worth considering for long distance driving is a Tesla with their supercharging network. Even though the Jag I-Pace is slated as Tesla killer, but for Tesla Model S money, you are not getting the supercharger network.

I suppose I need to clarify: I wonder why people insist on internal combustion engines for their daily drive, right now. I also wonder why are there still ICE research and ICE cars being unveiled for 2020. Whereas the money need to go into projects like the Ionity. Ecotricity's early Electric Highway motorway service rapid chargers were built using Nissan's money. If any car manufacturer want people to take their EV seriously, charging infrastructure is the first place to invest.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

I suppose I need to clarify: I wonder why people insist on internal combustion engines for their daily drive, right now. I also wonder why are there still ICE research and ICE cars being unveiled for 2020. Whereas the money need to go into projects like the Ionity. Ecotricity's early Electric Highway motorway service rapid chargers were built using Nissan's money. If any car manufacturer want people to take their EV seriously, charging infrastructure is the first place to invest.

Why?

For a start the change won't happen overnight. And really you DON'T WANT for the change to happen overnight unless you fancy electricity blackouts and the most polluting coal and diesel plants back online.

In the overall sum of things net pollution due to production of batteries, lithium extraction, electricity losses in cables (you get less than 25% of the plant power) mean that ICE are overall more efficient and less polluting, but they are obviously polluting at source and not remotely. You frankly want 100% nuclear and renewable power stations for EV to be a viable option. This will take a while.

Finally, there is the cost of EVs, the good ones in particular. Very few people can live with Nissan Leaf as their only car, and not many can afford to own more than one. Tesla S costs some serious money beyond the reach of most. Thanks to early adopters like yourself this will eventually go down to more reasonable levels. Hopefully.

In the grand scheme of things 5-10 years is a drop in the ocean to get things done right.