Automatic Car gears

[RedRobin]

I know that but that doesn't mean that practicality goes out the window. The point was that Steve questioned why David drove a Micra when he owned a Mustang. Is it so difficult to consider that one is for the enthusiast in him and the other is for practical everyday driving?

....You're absolutely right - Sorry, I slightly missed the point.... I need breakfast!!

And it's why some people have several cars - Horses for courses. As well as my throbbin' red chariot, sort of practical except when it comes to road clearance and indoor carpark ramps, 5-door VW GTI Golf, I would love a modified (of course!) Land-Rover Defender short wheelbase, and also a Porsche Cayman S. So I would have 3 cars. I know some folks who have as many as 7.

 

[Yv]

....DSG is excellent in my opinion. It depends on the driver as to what level of 'assistance' it offers. If you only drive in D-mode (equivalent to fully automatic), then it's merely another level of mind-numbing assistance. I intensely dislike many of the assistance features which usually serve to switch off the alertness and focus of the driver.

However, if you 'think manual' and shift gears exactly as you would in a manual car, it is no different except that all gearshifts are faultless and faster than humans can manage. I only slip her into D-mode for built-up 30mph zones or if in a traffic jam crawl.

Agreed - The most important factor in all this is the driver!

For what its worth, I agree, had one for a few weeks and loved it, its the perfect 'hybrid' if you like for someone like me where my driving is either built up city or long runs on good roads/motorways, best of bother worlds. However, your 'mind numbing' point is about right, I am frightened daily by some of the stuff I see on the roads and and you see RTA's and think 'how the **** did you manage that?!?!'. Yeah I know, that really does make me sound like a grumpy old woman, sorry

 

[Pookeyhead]

Yes I was aware of that. My point is a Micra is a dull and tedious one. If I had a modernish ford Mustang, I'd just use that and use the costs of running a second car into the fuel costs etc of the bigger car.

Why would I want an exciting car to drive to work every day in heavy rush hour traffic? I have two cars. I use whichever one is appropriate for what I'm doing. The costs of running the Micra don't even get close to recouping the costs of running the Mustang 24/7. Besides. Why pick up the inevitable damage from idiots in car parks by using it every day? I drive the same boring roads to work and back every day. There's no opportunity to drive in any other manner than a boring one due to traffic. It would be pointless driving the Mustang every day.

A Mustang isn't that big. Not a million miles wider than my old E class Mercedes and probably not much longer, which would easily fit in any parking space.

No it's not. It's roughly the same size as a 5 series BMW. However... it's not it's physical size that makes it impractical.

....Sorry, David, but I think your line of questioning (or challenging) my opinions are getting rather pedantic.

No it's not. You're saying I shouldn't slow down if my vision is impaired as if it's established best practice. I'm just asking you to reference this because I think it's just your opinion... which doesn't make it correct.

Indeed there might be an obstruction around every corner which you ever approach (in life as well as on the road). The whole process of driving involves taking risks. The art is to minimise those risks but also with consideration to safety of yourself and others.

And slowing down when you can't see clearly fits that description perfectly. You're acting as if anyone who doesn't maintain a constant speed with cruise control is some kind of menace

However, there is a point where efforts to minimise risk can be counter productive - Such as imagining their is a child on the highway around every single corner.

How is this counter-productive?

If you know your car well enough and its braking power (subject to tyres and road surface etc) you should manage to stop in time anyway if you are staying within your vehicle's limitations.

Exactly. I drive according to the distance I can see to be clear, and I'm confident I can brake within. That distance is highly variable however... and hence, so is my speed.

Yes but a Micra if you want something fun and small you could get a Abarth 595.

Seriously though, luckily we all have a choice what we want to drive. It isn't for anyone else telling us what to drive or not

Why would I want that? I have a big V8 Muscle car for fun. When I'm driving to work in rush our traffic, it's boring, no matter what I'm driving... stop, start.. hardly out of third gear... BORING. Why waste fuel on that? You need to get out of the one car compromise mentality. Some of us choose the appropriate tools for the job.

 

[dejongj]

I think you need to learn to read what I actually wrote. Perhaps get your vision checked :devil:

 

[Pookeyhead]

Incidentally, studies show that the vast majority of men MASSIVELY overestimate their driving ability. All this "know your limits" and know your vehicles limits" is just so much macho posturing.

No matter how great you think you are behind the wheel, you're almost certainly nowhere near as great as you think you are.

I think you need to learn to read what I actually wrote. Perhaps get your vision checked :devil:

For the 5th time. My vision is perfect. Yes I have it checked. I'm a photographer... my eyes are quite important.

 

[nilagin]

No.. because they don't sit there in front of me in queues of traffic constantly, day in, day out.


There's another good reason for the handbrake too. If you're sitting there in drive with your foot on the foot brake, and your foot slips off, or you suddenly get cramp in your foot.. anything really.. you will move forwards. Do that when a pedestrian is walking in front of you and that could be dangerous. You said earlier that your vehicle has so much creep that your hand brake can't even hold it, so imagine when would happen if for whatever reason your foot comes off the brake unintentionally.

Sorry, but you're just trying to justify your bad driving. Cars have a hand brake for a reason. Use it and stop being silly.

Oh... and get your gearbox/handbrake sorted, because that's clearly not right as well.

You are trying to justify it as bad driving when it's your eye sight at fault. Cars have a hand brake to prevent it rolling away when left unattended.
The footbrake is a large flat pedal, if your foot can just slip off the pedal or you suffer from inexplicable bouts of cramp, perhaps you are not fit enough to drive, have you informed the DVLA and your insurance company of such disabilities?
For those claiming that the handbrake should be applied because if you are hit from behind your foot would come off the brake, the force required for that to happen would be great enough the handbrake would have little effect anyway and chances are the weight of the car at the rear would lift anyway transferring the weight onto the front wheels, allowing it to roll.
As ST4 wrote, you should still be attentive to everything else around you, not the brake lights in front of you. You should be paying attention to traffic behind and if you are aware you could be hit you can apply more pressure to the brake pedal, so your foot won't come off.
As for amount of room you should leave between yourself and the car infront, you should be able to see the rear wheels of the vehicle in front and the road beneath said wheels.

 

[Pookeyhead]

You are trying to justify it as bad driving when it's your eye sight at fault.

This is funny.. for the 6th time. My eyes are perfect. I have them checked

Cramp is not a disability, and everyone gets it from time to time... even you.

 

[RedRobin]

Exactly. I drive according to the distance I can see to be clear, and I'm confident I can brake within. That distance is highly variable however... and hence, so is my speed.

....I wholeheartedly agree And it is what I said previously.

I also agree with what you have posted said re "appropriate tools for the job" and it's the same as I posted re "horses for course".

 

[nilagin]

For the 5th time. My vision is perfect. Yes I have it checked. I'm a photographer... my eyes are quite important.

And I'm willing to bet your cameras have an adjusting focus wheel on the view finder. Nothing to do with sensitivity to light during night time driving.

 

[Pookeyhead]

For those claiming that the handbrake should be applied because if you are hit from behind

I'm not.

As ST4 wrote, you should still be attentive to everything else around you, not the brake lights in front of you.

I am, but unfortunately, there's also a great deal I need to be attentive towards within my forward field of vision too.

Go argue with the Highway Code if you want, because it's quite clear on this matter.

 

[Pookeyhead]

And I'm willing to bet your cameras have an adjusting focus wheel on the view finder. Nothing to do with sensitivity to light during night time driving.

For the 7th time, my eyes are perfect. I have them checked.

I wonder if we'll make it to 10 times?

 

[nilagin]

This is funny.. for the 6th time. My eyes are perfect. I have them checked

Cramp is not a disability, and everyone gets it from time to time... even you.

If brake lights are dazzling you, your vision is not perfect, or you are staring straight at them. If they are merely in your peripheral vision the won't dazzle unless you don't have perfect vision.

 

[Pookeyhead]

If brake lights are dazzling you, your vision is not perfect, or you are staring straight at them. If they are merely in your peripheral vision the won't dazzle unless you don't have perfect vision.

Nonsense. Some brake lights are fiercely bright, and at night, your eyes will stop down accordingly, which makes it more difficult to view the darker areas within your field of vision. This is merely how your eyes work. You can't argue with that.

It states quite clearly in the highway code, section 114. It's a recognised, common problem, hence why it's in there. Stop trying to justify your lazy driving habits.


Oh... and for the 8th time... LOL

 

[dejongj]

For the 7th time, my eyes are perfect. I have them checked.

I wonder if we'll make it to 10 times?

Maybe not just your eyes but your hearing too :devil:

Look it is very simple. You say you have them checked, yet you still get dazzled by the lights. Obviously something isn't quite right and you can't just argue that it is the brake lights of every car. Fine I'll accept you may find it annoying and in your own mind think it is unnecessary and even rude. But if you experience them as dazzling you then something is not right.

Do they also dazzle you when you are not sitting in your car?

 

[nilagin]

Considering you are dazzled by it then either they are not or perhaps your windscreen needs good clean.

Dirty windscreen, worn pedal rubbers, I think he needs a lesson in basic car maintenance, care and road worthiness.

 

[Pookeyhead]

Maybe not just your eyes but your hearing too :devil:

Look it is very simple. You say you have them checked, yet you still get dazzled by the lights. Obviously something isn't quite right and you can't just argue that it is the brake lights of every car. Fine I'll accept you may find it annoying and in your own mind think it is unnecessary and even rude. But if you experience them as dazzling you then something is not right.

Do they also dazzle you when you are not sitting in your car?

Shine a bright light in someone's face and they wil be dazzled. Simple as that.


As usual... blokes can't take any criticism of their driving habits. Don't worry... I'm not suggesting you have a small penis (although you may well have). I'm merely saying that forcing the driver behind to have a bright red light in their field of vision is inconsiderate, annoying, and potentially dangerous, which is why it;s clearly stated in capital letters as something you should "NOT DO" in section `114 of the Highway Code.


I'm out. Too many insecure blokes who measure their masculinity against their driving ability in here... a bit like their photographic ability too if you read enough threads.

 

[dejongj]

Dirty windscreen, worn pedal rubbers, I think he needs a lesson in basic car maintenance, care and road worthiness.

Roflmao I don't like picking on one person but that was funny, it is just amazing how everything is everyone else's fault, and despite a self declared issue with being dazzled by not only brake lights but also oncoming traffic his eye sight is perfect. It may well be, the only other logical explanations would be is that vehicle maintenance is lacking or everyone else has bad lights despite the Legal requirements around those.

Then again it could just be the Micra. It does have a bit of a funny rounded shape

 

[dejongj]

Shine a bright light in someone's face and they wil be dazzled. Simple as that.


As usual... blokes can't take any criticism of their driving habits. Don't worry... I'm not suggesting you have a small penis (although you may well have). I'm merely saying that forcing the driver behind to have a bright red light in their field of vision is inconsiderate, annoying, and potentially dangerous, which is why it;s clearly stated in capital letters as something you should "NOT DO" in section `114 of the Highway Code.


I'm out. Too many insecure blokes who measure their masculinity against their driving ability in here... a bit like their photographic ability too if you read enough threads.

Wow dummy and pram. Come on pookeyhead no need for that, surely you can be better than that and have a grown up conversation.

 

[nilagin]

No they don't. Brake light become blinding in poor conditions and are detrimental to road safety.

Do they? What would those poor condtions be? I've yet to find them detrimental or even remotely dazzling in any conditions. The only people it would be detrimental to are those with poor eyesight and shouldn't be driving or a poorly cleaned windscreen and once again, they should not be driving.

 

[Pookeyhead]

Pathetic.

You'd be dazzled by an oncoming car with main beam on just as anyone else would.

When was the last time you actually checked if there's a spit in your pedal rubbers?


Usual b*****ks by blokes when driving is a discussion... because you're all brilliant. LOL


Chances are you're probably quite a crap driver, because most people are.


The published rules of the road we are measured against agree with me. I'll smugly, and confidently withdraw from the argument.

Thank you.

 

[nilagin]

A Micra is an awful car

Fixed that for you.

 

[CaveDweller]

You know you're bored when you read an entire thread and don't have one thing to say...apart from this pointless post from myself. I love these threads

Never "properly" driven an auto out on the open road. I've just moved them about the workshop at work, but I wouldn't mind having a test drive of one for a decent shot. I doubt I would ever buy one, but would be nice to have a go. I've always driven a manual and probably always will. Saying that I live out in the country, there's no stop/start traffic around me for a long way away. I prefer a manual for more control, especially in snow. My bmw 330D isn't great in the snow with so much torque, RWD and wide tyres, but I find the manual box helps that. I can take off in 2nd gear and control the clutch to reduce the risk of loosing traction, not sure if you can do that in an auto, correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: maybe I did say quite a bit. Spur of the moment.

 

[donut]

so if someone gets dazzled by bright lights shining in their eyes they have defective vision and shouldnt be driving ?
i dont agree with everything that David says ,but i do with most of what he's said here ,,,,
and i think that im probably more qualified as a driver on here than most ( not all ) and by qualfied i mean i have more letters at the bottom of my licence , and ive driven well over a million miles so huh

 

[TCR4x4]

Good enough for me.




image by TCR4x4, on Flickr

 

[dejongj]

Edit: this was in response to @Pookeyhead saying the Highway Code agrees with him so there, or to such effect

No they don't. They hang on your interpretation of stationary. As has been highlight fairly early in the thread the advanced driving techniques advise goes against that. Stationary with the intent to drive off as in a traffic light situation is very different than stationary as parked up in a long queue. Many of us already confirmed that in such situation we would have applied the handbrake and not only that also switch off the engine.

Coming to a halt for a traffic light waiting for it to turn green any moment isn't the same as stationary in a long queue by my understanding.

 

[CaveDweller]

Pathetic.

You'd be dazzled by an oncoming car with main beam on just as anyone else would.

Thank you.

Perhaps not all the time Check the video out about BMW's high beam assist. My 330D has this but I never use it, I still prefer the good ol' fashioned way of flicking them off.

 

[dejongj]

so if someone gets dazzled by bright lights shining in their eyes they have defective vision and shouldnt be driving ?
i dont agree with everything that David says ,but i do with most of what he's said here ,,,,
and i think that im probably more qualified as a driver on here than most ( not all ) and by qualfied i mean i have more letters at the bottom of my licence , and ive driven well over a million miles so huh

No that is not what people are saying at all

 

[dejongj]

You know you're bored when you read an entire thread and don't have one thing to say...apart from this pointless post from myself. I love these threads

Never "properly" driven an auto out on the open road. I've just moved them about the workshop at work, but I wouldn't mind having a test drive of one for a decent shot. I doubt I would ever buy one, but would be nice to have a go. I've always driven a manual and probably always will. Saying that I live out in the country, there's no stop/start traffic around me for a long way away. I prefer a manual for more control, especially in snow. My bmw 330D isn't great in the snow with so much torque, RWD and wide tyres, but I find the manual box helps that. I can take off in 2nd gear and control the clutch to reduce the risk of loosing traction, not sure if you can do that in an auto, correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: maybe I did say quite a bit. Spur of the moment.

Yes you can do that with most automatic gearboxes. Especially the more modern ones as utilised by VAG, BMW and Mercedes. One of the easiest techniques to use I found when I had rear wheel drive and automatic is to just use the torque crawl to get going. Pop it in drive, don't apply any throttle and it might start to crawl and you can pick it up from there. It also helps when you can switch off assistance tools like esp and the likes. We couldn't in a Toyota Prius we owned and it was a nightmare as all it did was reduce power and you'd grind to a halt.

With the dual clutch systems you've got really fine control of things to apply the right gear to start and also to break. Hey even in my Golf R with 4x4 I have to watch out as it is too easy to break traction. But I apply a different throttle sensitivity, reduce the engine mapping, switch off traction control and get going in 2nd or 3rd gear.

In our GL I just increase the ride height and barge through anything no considerations required

 

[Steve Smith]

I have found that applying the hand brake and selecting neutral instantly changes red traffic lights to green!


Steve.

 

[nilagin]

Pathetic.

You'd be dazzled by an oncoming car with main beam on just as anyone else would.

When was the last time you actually checked if there's a spit in your pedal rubbers?


Usual b*****ks by blokes when driving is a discussion... because you're all brilliant. LOL


Chances are you're probably quite a crap driver, because most people are.


The published rules of the road we are measured against agree with me. I'll smugly, and confidently withdraw from the argument.

Thank you.

I don't stare at other cars lights so don't get dazzled, as I wrote several pages earlier the only times I've been dazzled was when a vehicle with headlights higher up, eg a van or lorry is parked on my side of the road and the light beam pattern dictates it will shine into my eyes.
Pedal rubbers? They are several approximately 10mm diameter raised inserts in an aluminium pedal, they won't split. Previous cars that did have full rubber pedals were checked frequently when ever the car was cleaned, even a bit of wear showing and they would be replaced. Perhaps you ought to make use of your perfect vision and take better care of your cars.
The published rules of the road you mentioned states following traffic, (More than one vehicle) not vehicle (singular), becomes stationary you should apply the handbrake, can release the brake pedal. As your high level brake light should be visible through quite a few vehicles behind you, you will probably never need to apply the handbrake. If the queue is likely to be that long then applying the handbrake and switching off the engine would be a wise move.

 

[CaveDweller]

Yes you can do that with most automatic gearboxes. Especially the more modern ones as utilised by VAG, BMW and Mercedes. One of the easiest techniques to use I found when I had rear wheel drive and automatic is to just use the torque crawl to get going. Pop it in drive, don't apply any throttle and it might start to crawl and you can pick it up from there. It also helps when you can switch off assistance tools like esp and the likes. We couldn't in a Toyota Prius we owned and it was a nightmare as all it did was reduce power and you'd grind to a halt.

With the dual clutch systems you've got really fine control of things to apply the right gear to start and also to break. Hey even in my Golf R with 4x4 I have to watch out as it is too easy to break traction. But I apply a different throttle sensitivity, reduce the engine mapping, switch off traction control and get going in 2nd or 3rd gear.

In our GL I just increase the ride height and barge through anything no considerations required

Aye I do a lot of driving in snow, so don't know why I bought a BMW lol, but driven properly it's actually pretty good in the snow considering it can loose traction in 4th in the dry . I'll have to get out for a test drive for an auto or take one of works cars out for a spin. The only auto I've driven was an old jag, and that was just used to rag round the fields.

 

[dejongj]

No two auto boxes are the same. And I also find they can be quite different in experience depending on the engine they are linked to.

I have to admit that I think Mercedes should be able to do better with their 7 speed that we have. Whilst the DSG in my Golf R is just heavenly. Although my wife thinks it is the other way around and find the Mercedes much more relaxed whilst the Golf is a manic monster plopping through the gears like mad with a crack and a pop.

With bmw I've not had a bad auto box, although I have no experience with their smg versions which I think are a bit more hardcore than the VAG dsg is. With DSG it took me a while to figure it out on how to make best of it. For example a downshift is super smooth, incredibly fast when you apply more throttle. It is like a signal to the box that you want more power so it makes a lower gear available and with full though applied you can select a lower gear and bang off you are. It is very very impressive.

 

[SFTPhotography]

This is funny.. for the 6th time. My eyes are perfect. I have them checked

Cramp is not a disability, and everyone gets it from time to time... even you.

Are you sure, others have commented that they don't get dazzled by by brake lights etc but you say you do.

Cramp is very avoidable, if you have your seat adjusted properly and take regular breaks if on a long journey you shouldn't get it. I've never heard of anyone cite cramp as a concern.

Seriously, if you have such issues, get a medical check up or wear these tinted glasses that @dejongj mentioned to cut the glare down.

 

[SFTPhotography]

No two auto boxes are the same. And I also find they can be quite different in experience depending on the engine they are linked to.

I have to admit that I think Mercedes should be able to do better with their 7 speed that we have. Whilst the DSG in my Golf R is just heavenly. Although my wife thinks it is the other way around and find the Mercedes much more relaxed whilst the Golf is a manic monster plopping through the gears like mad with a crack and a pop.

With bmw I've not had a bad auto box, although I have no experience with their smg versions which I think are a bit more hardcore than the VAG dsg is. With DSG it took me a while to figure it out on how to make best of it. For example a downshift is super smooth, incredibly fast when you apply more throttle. It is like a signal to the box that you want more power so it makes a lower gear available and with full though applied you can select a lower gear and bang off you are. It is very very impressive.

Mercedes 7g auto's are crap IMHO. Slow shfiting, jerky, problematic when they get older. The older 5spd box is a lot better to drive with. Yours is the 7g+ which is better and really the box the original 7g should have been. I've driven countless 7g Mercedes and all either flare shifts when cold 1 into 2, jerk when going 2 into 1, some are ponderous from 5-6-7.

Aisin Warner make the boxes for Toyota/Volvo/Lexus and they are reliable but middle ranging in terms of performance.

VAG DSG very nice to drive with as is the ZF auto's fitted to BMW, Audi etc

 

[dejongj]

Lol if mine is the newer version then the old version must be really bad. Don't get me wrong it is light years ahead of some of the older auto boxes, but not as good as it should be for the rest of the car. My issue with it is more that when driving slowly it is a bit too lazy, when pushing on it is actually really good.

 

[Yves Geza]

Well, "Rear end me!" there's some driving Goddery in this thread!

About 5 pages ago I agreed with Pookey that sitting on brake lights was inconsiderate to the driver behind and dazzling and I still do! Quite pleased that @donut seems to agree - though his driving is on a much higher plane than mine ... eye level at least!

I first noticed it when I was 17 and my eyes were pretty good; that you couldn't instantly focus on or identify what was immediately adjacent to or beyond the 21W bulb. Still holds. You can see better what's around or right next to a 5W tail bulb in your field of vision.

Then again I passed my Test in 1974 and I'm [just about] old enough to remember how much better you could see in town [not necessarily be seen] when everybody drove on sidelights under street lights! That was ruined as soon as one car turned on dipped headlights and created pools of shadow around their lights.

As for Micras, by and large I prefer their spring/damper rates and steering feel to anything manufactured by the VAG group!

 

[SFTPhotography]

Lol if mine is the newer version then the old version must be really bad. Don't get me wrong it is light years ahead of some of the older auto boxes, but not as good as it should be for the rest of the car. My issue with it is more that when driving slowly it is a bit too lazy, when pushing on it is actually really good.

The new one is heaps better. The old one is really lowsy and marred what was an otherwise excellent car to drive.

Flaring shifts, stupid jerks. It was bad and they're all like that. Then there's the integrated electroplate/valve body. A grand if a simple part goes.

I'd still have another merc, s class money being well. Or even a big Volvo. I like comfortable cars.

 

[dejongj]

Well, "Rear end me!" there's some driving Goddery in this thread!

About 5 pages ago I agreed with Pookey that sitting on brake lights was inconsiderate to the driver behind and dazzling and I still do! Quite pleased that @donut seems to agree - though his driving is on a much higher plane than mine ... eye level at least!

I first noticed it when I was 17 and my eyes were pretty good; that you couldn't instantly focus on or identify what was immediately adjacent to or beyond the 21W bulb. Still holds. You can see better what's around or right next to a 5W tail bulb in your field of vision.

Then again I passed my Test in 1974 and I'm [just about] old enough to remember how much better you could see in town [not necessarily be seen] when everybody drove on sidelights under street lights! That was ruined as soon as one car turned on dipped headlights and created pools of shadow around their lights.

As for Micras, by and large I prefer their spring/damper rates and steering feel to anything manufactured by the VAG group!

Lol car lighting seems to be a very decisive subject. More so than canon vs Nikon it seems. Heck I remember a thread a while back where there was this similar argument about headlights, a verge and automatic systems or not.

Luckily this thread wasn't about something as controversial as car lighting but merely automatic gearboxes. it's the works of the devil I say

Anyway rain has stopped, I'm going to walk the dog now. And no that isn't a euphemism.

 

[Byker28i]

I can't remember the last time I used the handbrake when the engine was running. I got out of the habit when I had a TVR and now I drive automatics.

IAM also advise leaving your foot on the brake at lights in poor visibility. Every light helps.

Whilst not great, if adjusted properly then a TVRs handbrake is ok.the clutch however is a lot fiercer than modern cars so you put the handbrake on and in neutral so you can rest your clutch leg

 

[Byker28i]

I drive autos in the states as they are easier to get and somehow make sense there, even on the big muscle cars.