Automatic Car gears

Why being in more control of your gears and engine revs is safer....

It's actually very simple and my post should perhaps have read "Do you really need me to explain why?"

All drivers know, or should know, that every yard we drive a vehicle is a dynamic and constantly ever-changing journey. We do our utmost to anticipate and predict the behaviour of others (including pedestrians, cyclists, etc) and to make progress safely. By selecting the gears to be in the optimum gear for instant acceleration or instant engine braking (to possibly assist wheel braking) at all times, we are then able to respond faster to a sudden unexpected occurrence and hence more easily escape from potential trouble and stay safe.

It's similar to the importance of keeping both hands on the steering wheel and not either propping up your head with one hand or having your arm half out of the window. In an emergency, every millisecond counts in action to avoid an incident.

If you enjoy driving, dealing with the dynamic changes is part of the thrill or buzz. It's not sitting back as if in a comfy armchair on wheels and switching off your road sense or focus.
 
RedRobin said:
The point of using gears is to be in more control, especially when enjoying some spirited driving. Being in more control of your gears and engine revs is safer (to hell with eco) - Do you need me to explain why? The camera equivalent is to leave your camera in P-mode rather than take control in Manual or Aperture or Shutter speed.

I enjoy my driving by being very alert and focussed - I don't even play the radio etc - and keeping the car 'alert' by being in the optimum gear.
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I prefer choice. My DSG provides me with the choice of fully automatic in three different preprogrammed modes, drive it in semi automatic since it allows me to override and then after 30 second if I don't continue to operate manually it reverts to the last used auto programme. I can also run it fully manual with either flappy peddles or with the gear stick. And then there is the performance figures which without argue demonstrate it is consistently quicker than a manual. Heck with 0-60 in 3.7 seconds I am man enough to admit that I can't possibly keep up with a manual gearshift to do it in that time. And with normal ingear acceleration if be knackered stirring that pudding all the time.

Choice is good and you can have your cake and eat it that way.
 
Steve Smith said:
I'm not a fan of automatic gearboxes but I'm sure they know when to change gear better than most of us do.
Steve.
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....Oh dear! I hope your comment isn't serious.

I was out riding shotgun with a friend of mine today who enjoys driving and the car he was using today had a feature on the dashboard which was displaying to him when to change gear. It was a great irritation to him and I have experienced the same in a car.

Engines which automatically switch themselves off at traffic lights are equally annoying but you can delete that feature on most cars at least.
 
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Nod said:
Spirited driving has no place on the public road.
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....Spirited driving doesn't mean driving irresponsibly or with no regard for road and traffic conditions. It simply means driving within your own and your vehicle's capabilities and making progress safely while also enjoying it.
 
stupar said:
If you cant gauge stationary traffic without the assistance of lights should you be driving?

"Sorry your honour, his brake lights werent on so i didnt bother attempting to stop"
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I never count on the skill and judgement of others...brake lights showing helps others see me. How can I know their judgement?

And if you are hit and your foot is forced onto the accelerator of an automatic car, what happens...foot in the brake the cars less likely to be a) pushed further forward b) the driver hit the accelerator in error on the impact.

Plus the additional wear to the linkages and that the torque convertor is designed to absorb the energy of the car being held on the brake I see no reason to go in and out of D when driving an automatic. So I never have and never will.
 
Yves Geza said:
Hap Sharp [of Chaparral] said "Since we're getting wheelspin in every gear including top, we don't need a gearbox at all!" - so they got rid of it and used the left foot pedal to flap an aerodynamic wing instead!
.
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Did he have a ranch type place here in West Sussex Jonathan ?
If so I met him many years ago when I worked in insurance, likable bloke, except his version of his name was always
"My name is Hap, because the day I was born was the happiest day of my mother's life"
Shame he died the way he did
 
DorsetDude said:
And if you are all doing it "to be seen" as you claim (bs) , why bother when there are one or more cars pulled up and stopped behind you at the same set of red lights? The cars behind you are then blocking you from being seen anyway so you may as well take your foot off. But no thats not the real reason is it, the real reason is you're lazy.
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High level brake lights are invariably visable through the cars behind you. Once there's a few cars behind me, if the road is flat I take my foot off the brake and just wait, if the road has a slight incline I hold it on the clutch and before anyone says anything, in 34yrs of driving I've never burnt out a clutch or even had so much as a slipping clutch.
 
dejongj said:
I prefer choice. My DSG provides me with the choice of fully automatic in three different preprogrammed modes, drive it in semi automatic since it allows me to override and then after 30 second if I don't continue to operate manually it reverts to the last used auto programme. I can also run it fully manual with either flappy peddles or with the gear stick. And then there is the performance figures which without argue demonstrate it is consistently quicker than a manual. Heck with 0-60 in 3.7 seconds I am man enough to admit that I can't possibly keep up with a manual gearshift to do it in that time. And with normal ingear acceleration if be knackered stirring that pudding all the time.

Choice is good and you can have your cake and eat it that way.
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....I agree enthusiastically. DSG is the best of both worlds and you calling it "semi-automatic" is a more accurate description than the DVLA calling it "automatic" but the DVLA are somewhat behind the times.

Oooh! 0-60 in 3.7 seconds sounds very exciting! I like.

Regardless of which gearbox mode I am driving in, I think manual.
 
Yves Geza said:
I've always thought that sitting on the footbrake was inconsiderate to the driver behind.
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Exactly. It's just bad driving. Fact.
 
Gremlin said:

Did he have a ranch type place here in West Sussex Jonathan ?
If so I met him many years ago when I worked in insurance, likable bloke, except his version of his name was always
"My name is Hap, because the day I was born was the happiest day of my mother's life"
Shame he died the way he did
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I don't know ... but since he had poloponies [© Steptoe and Son] he might well have done! ;)
 
[QUOTE="JonathanRyan, post: 6651367, member: 875]

I think there was some advice from the IAM (really, not always the greatest source) not to leave in park at the lights. If somebody runs into your car it could trash the gearbox cost you a lot more. Far safer to leave your foot on the brake so if you get hit you will get shunted into the traffic :)[/QUOTE]

This has never been IAM advice - and if their advice is "not always the greatest" then blame the Police as both the IAM and ROSPA use "Roadcraft" (the Police drivers handbook) as their text book.

@ the OP: When you should use neutral in your vehicle will depend on the advice that the manufacturer gives. From personal experience it can vary from every time you stop to only if stopped for a long time but the general rule appears to favour the latter. Read the handbook and see what it says :)
 
RedRobin said:
....I agree enthusiastically. DSG is the best of both worlds and you calling it "semi-automatic" is a more accurate description than the DVLA calling it "automatic" but the DVLA are somewhat behind the times.
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When DVLA describes something as automatic, they mean the clutch, not gears. If the driver can control the clutch through a continuously variable control, it's manual. If not. it's automatic.


Steve.
 
OldCarlos said:
Not FACT at all, just your opinion. ;)
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No.. it's a fact. Use your handbrake, and stop blinding the people behind you when you're sat in a stationary queue of traffic at night.
 
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Pookeyhead said:
No.. it's a fact. Use your handbrake, and stop blinding the people behind you when you're sat in a stationary queue of traffic at night.
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You won't be blinded, and automatic cars aren't designed to be popped in and out of D as they creep forward. You need the foot brake take to hold them against this creep. I remember in my x5 the handbrake wasn't strong enough to hold it against the creep and it was the same with my Mercedes. It wears the linkages in the transmission to be going in and out of D every time you stop.

If you get blinded by brake lights do you get blinded by traffic lights and brake lights when driving. I've never found brake lights at traffic lights blinding even at night even in wet day.
 
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Pookeyhead said:
No.. it's a fact. Use your handbrake, and stop blinding the people behind you when you're sat in a stationary queue of traffic at night.
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I don't get blinded by it? Nor does my wife. Nor do my inlaws....I know that isn't a full sample, but lets not blame others for your own short comings, clean your windscreen, mirrors, perhaps just glasses at nighttime (I know I had to to avoid 'night blindness')...
 
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ST4 said:
So when following a car in a rural road and it brakes do you get blinded by the lights?
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They're not on constantly, nor are they a couple of metres in front of my face. If you think it's the same thing, I suggest you stop tailgating people.
 
I've driven a manual car for 35 years and always at lights put it in neutral and hand brake on. Had my first auto now for three months and at lights my foot stays on the brake unless it looks like I'm going to be stationary for a while. Wished I'd gone to auto ages ago- being able to have your hands on the wheel at all times and having an 8 speed gearbox that changes better than me and at the most appropriate time makes driving a safer and more pleasurable experience.
 
I've been reading this with some interest as I drive a Scirocco with a DSG gearbox. If I'm at the lights for any length of time, I put the handbrake on and the car into neutral, partly out of consideration for the car behind but also as it's just easier and I can relax a bit. I do get irritated by brake lights sometimes. I know as we grow older our eyes are less able to cope with bright lights...

I've always believed that if I'm rear ended and I subsequently hit the vehicle in front of me, then it's my fault? I don't know. I seem to remember having to have the handbrake on if you're at the front of the queue at the lights but not necessarily otherwise? They're a couple of points I dimly remember from when I took my test all those aeons ago!
 
Pookeyhead said:
They're not on constantly, nor are they a couple of metres in front of my face. If you think it's the same thing, I suggest you stop tailgating people.
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You should leave more room when stopped. In an IAM course you're taught to leave enough room to be able to manoeuvre out. Do you do this or sit right on the bumper of the car your sat behind. Are you aware you can focus your eyes on something else, like what's going on further ahead to anticipate when you'll be moving off, traffic lights at near junctions to predict when your traffic light will change, you should also be checking the mirror to see what's coming up behind in case you do need to move out and away (I did once saving myself a whiplash injury and damage to my wonderful automatic Mercedes)

If your sat blindly looking at brake lights that shouldn't blind you, you've got bigger problems out there than me.
 
ST4 said:
You should leave more room when stopped.
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And how much room do you suggest I leave? LOL I leave enough to drive around the vehicle in front should I need to. Any more than that would be pointless.


ST4 said:
In an IAM course you're taught to leave enough room to be able to manoeuvre out.
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See above. That's still essentially quite close. I drive a Nissan Micra!

ST4 said:
You should leave more room when stopped. Do you do this or sit right on the bumper of the car your sat behind. Are you aware you can focus your eyes on something else, like what's going on further ahead to anticipate when you'll be moving off, traffic lights at near junctions to predict when your traffic light will change, you should also be checking the mirror to see what's coming up behind in case you do need to move out and away (I did once saving myself a whiplash injury and damage to my wonderful automatic Mercedes)

If your sat blindly looking at brake lights that shouldn't blind you, you've got bigger problems out there than me.
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It's in my field of view. I don't have to focus on it directly for it to be a pain in the ass.

With all due respect, you're not exactly the right person to be lecturing anyone on driving standards.
 
Pookeyhead said:
With all due respect, you're not exactly the right person to be lecturing anyone on driving standards.
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Why, cos I got caught going a bit quick on a quiet road...please.

I am not the one bellyaching about brake lights at traffic lights. Maybe my eyes are better than most, but it never has been a problem for me and never will be. I will drive my automatic car in the future like this as its better for it and me.

Do you find the flashing blue lights of a police car/ambulance etc dazzling too....
 
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ST4 said:
Do you find the flashing blue lights of a police car/ambulance etc dazzling too....
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No.. because they don't sit there in front of me in queues of traffic constantly, day in, day out.


There's another good reason for the handbrake too. If you're sitting there in drive with your foot on the foot brake, and your foot slips off, or you suddenly get cramp in your foot.. anything really.. you will move forwards. Do that when a pedestrian is walking in front of you and that could be dangerous. You said earlier that your vehicle has so much creep that your hand brake can't even hold it, so imagine when would happen if for whatever reason your foot comes off the brake unintentionally.

Sorry, but you're just trying to justify your bad driving. Cars have a hand brake for a reason. Use it and stop being silly.

Oh... and get your gearbox/handbrake sorted, because that's clearly not right as well.
 
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Steve Smith said:
When DVLA describes something as automatic, they mean the clutch, not gears. If the driver can control the clutch through a continuously variable control, it's manual. If not. it's automatic.
Steve.
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....Logical, but clutch and gears go together in one box of tricks which is known as a gearbox. For the DVLA to call a DSG (or similar from Audi, Porsche, Mercedes, etc etc) 'semi-automatic' would be a more accurate description than 'automatic'. The point here is that an 'automatic' vehicle doesn't rely on so much driver input as a 'manual' and this is why if you passed a driving licence test for an 'automatic' you are not licenced to drive a 'manual' transmission vehicle. I understand that insurance premiums relate to this as well but this would have to be confirmed.

'Semi-automatic' (DSG etc) technology is relatively new to the bureaucratic systems of the DVLA and this is why I maintain that they haven't caught up and updated their forms.
 
Pookeyhead said:
No.. because they don't sit there in front of me in queues of traffic constantly, day in, day out.
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light is light, and brake lights aren't so bright if they are lit in front of you that they will dazzle you...unless you've got problems.

May I ask, when driving on a rural road and a car approaches with its head lights on, do you brake because the lights of the oncoming car dazzle/confuse you? You seem the sort that might.
 
ST4 said:
light is light, and brake lights aren't so bright if they are lit in front of you that they will dazzle you...unless you've got problems.

May I ask, when driving on a rural road and a car approaches with its head lights on, do you brake because the lights of the oncoming car dazzle/confuse you? You seem the sort that might.
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No.. unless they have badly adjusted headlights... or forget to dip them, then yes. If my vision is in any way impared by such, then yes, I will slow down.

I also edited my last post.
 
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ST4 said:
May I ask, when driving on a rural road and a car approaches with its head lights on, do you brake because the lights of the oncoming car dazzle/confuse you? You seem the sort that might.
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The sort? You mean the sort of person that would back off a bit because something impairs their vision? You talk as if that's a bad thing. Perhaps those that drive recklessly have a different opinion of what good driving is then huh?
 
Pookeyhead said:
No.. because they don't sit there in front of me in queues of traffic constantly, day in, day out.


There's another good reason for the handbrake too. If you're sitting there in drive with your foot on the foot brake, and your foot slips off, or you suddenly get cramp in your foot.. anything really.. you will move forwards. Do that when a pedestrian is walking in front of you and that could be dangerous. You said earlier that your vehicle has so much creep that your hand brake can't even hold it, so imagine when would happen if for whatever reason your foot comes off the brake unintentionally.

Sorry, but you're just trying to justify your bad driving. Cars have a hand brake for a reason. Use it and stop being silly.

Oh... and get your gearbox/handbrake sorted, because that's clearly not right as well.
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The footbrake applies braking force to all four wheels, the handbrake to only the two rear ones. There is the risk of feet slipping off the pedal, but with rubber grips and over 200k miles in automatic cars its never happened once and I doubt ever will. You don't here of blood baths out there due to automatic car drivers feet slipping.

Popping the car into N from D is bad for it and the torque convertor is desgined to hold the propulsive force of the car being held on the brakes. Look at the highway code, IAM guides, a handbook for an automatic car and you'll see they all support the foot on the footbrake when stopped.

All this is a frightful display of internet pendantry IMHO.

Pookeyhead said:
The sort? You mean the sort of person that would back off a bit because something impairs their vision? You talk as if that's a bad thing. Perhaps those that drive recklessly have a different opinion of what good driving is then huh?
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Back of, or brake and dazzle the driver behind...LOL....

I've never been dazzled by oncoming car lights or had to brake, I can see where I am going. It isn't hard. I find it bewildering for people to slow when its perfectly clear there is no need to, all because of a car on the other side of the road with the lights on. How is that wreckless?
 
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It's all actually very simple and as I was taught....

Never look DIRECTLY into the lights of any vehicle in oncoming traffic (or your rear-view mirror) and the same habit applies to the vehicle in front of you. This way you should not be dazzled such that you go into panic or road-rage mode :D

You should always be looking at traffic as far ahead of you as you can see anyway - Again, this technique is much safer.

And if you can't see the mirrors of the vehicle in front of you they can't be expected to see you and you are driving too close! < This is where a high performance car scores yet again - It's fast acceleration can jump the gap and get the overtaking maneouvre completed quicker (and safer). Shall we go on and talk about the benefits of high performance brakes? Tyres?

Above all, stay very alert and focussed and FFS enjoy your driving!!
 
ST4 said:
The footbrake applies braking force to all four wheels, the handbrake to only the two rear ones. There is the risk of feet slipping off the pedal, but with rubber grips and over 200k miles in automatic cars its never happened once and I doubt ever will. You don't here of blood baths out there due to automatic car drivers feet slipping.
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Ahh.. the never happened yet, so it won't happen argument. Brilliant. Anyone who advises just sitting there in a car by holding the footbrake , when that car WILL move forwards if that brake is released has clearly just not thought this through IMO.

Popping the car into N from D is bad for it and the torque convertor is desgined to hold the propulsive force of the car being held on the brakes.[/quote]


Crap. You'll be saying next you don't use your headlights because it wears the bulbs out.

ST4 said:
Look at the highway code,
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OK.....

Highway Code said:
114
You MUST NOT

use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders
use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves to avoid dazzling other road users (see Rule 226).

In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again.
Law RVLR reg 27
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ST4 said:
All this is a frightful display of internet pendantry IMHO.
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The defence of all people talking crap on the internet,



Your handbrake SHOULD be able to hold your car in drive whilst at idle. Get it checked. Moving your gear selector from D to N does it no harm whatsoever. It may where faster if you use it more, but then again.. using anything wears it out. Why not just park your car in the garage and never use it, it will last forever,
 
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i find it strange that some people get dazzled by brake lights... I have my windscreen clean and don't look straight at the bulb. common sense really.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Ahh.. the never happened yet, so it won't happen argument. Brilliant. Anyone who advises just sitting there in a car by holding the footbrake , when that car WILL move forwards if that brake is released has clearly just not thought this through IMO.

Popping the car into N from D is bad for it and the torque convertor is desgined to hold the propulsive force of the car being held on the brakes.
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Crap. You'll be saying next you don't use your headlights because it wears the bulbs out.




OK.....







The defence of all people talking crap on the internet,



Your handbrake SHOULD be able to hold your car in drive whilst at idle. Get it checked. Moving your gear selector from D to N does it no harm whatsoever. It may where faster if you use it more, but then again.. using anything wears it out. Why not just park your car in the garage and never use it, it will last forever,[/QUOTE]

I'm just going with the highway code, the handbook for my old once £50k car, IAM training etc....

Has your feet ever slipped of any of the pedals of your car?

Automatic cars are designed for sticking in D. For a prolonged stop (say over 2 minutes) I would move out of D, into N and consider switching the engine off.

Bulbs are cheap, gearboxes aren't....

Perhaps I shouldn't brake at all, or drive without headlights so when you are oncoming you don't get dazzled. The highway code applies and means to dipping your full beam, and not using fog lights inapprorpiately and even these when used when they shouldn't be don't dazzle me
 
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ST4 said:
I'm just going with the highway code, the handbook for my old once £50k car, IAM training etc....
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Dude.. I've just quoted you the Highway Code

ST4 said:
Has your feet ever slipped of any of the pedals of your car?
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As a matter of fact, yes, I had a worn rubber on my clutch pedal that had split down the side.. pressed the clutch down and it slipped off. My handbrake was on though.

ST4 said:
Automatic cars are designed for sticking in D. For a prolonged stop (say over 2 minutes) I would move out of D, into N and consider switching the engine off.



Bulbs are cheap, gearboxes aren't....
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Crap. Doesn't do any harm. The amount of classic Mustangs I've seen and driven with 45 year old C4s in them that have been used manually due to having ratchet sequential shifters installed... LOL. They're indestructible. 45 years without a rebuild... Stop buying crap cars if yours is breaking because you USE it.
 
Pookeyhead said:
The sort? You mean the sort of person that would back off a bit because something impairs their vision? You talk as if that's a bad thing. Perhaps those that drive recklessly have a different opinion of what good driving is then huh?
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I think he meant the sort that blames others whilst it actually sounds like you may have a need for a minor correction to your own optics such that the glare stops from such lights. I've done that and wear my glasses at night time and no more moaning at badly adjusted lights or people applying their brakes at a traffic light as actually it was my own eyesight that was at fault.

I'm seeing the drivers all the time everytime in the dark there is an oncoming driver they tap their brakes and slow down. Heck I may have done that as well. It is erratic and unnecessary. Although saying that I agree that it is probably better to do so than crash into someone. But let's be honest about it, the "problem" can be your own, be it your eyesight or dirty windscreen.
 
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Pookeyhead said:
The sort? You mean the sort of person that would back off a bit because something impairs their vision? You talk as if that's a bad thing. Perhaps those that drive recklessly have a different opinion of what good driving is then huh?
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....It's not quite so black or white as that. If you have already seen and are aware of what traffic conditions are beyond any temporary lessening of vision and it's safe, then you need not back off (assuming that your speed is not reckless in the first place) and indeed you should not back off. Backing off at every single instance of very temporary 'hiccups' in full vision while night driving would result in a very erratic and potentially unsafe (to other road users) driving style. Keep it all smooooth, baby!

I wear amber-yellow eye shades for both night driving (greatly cuts inevitable glare) and dull grey weather (increases visual definition) and mirror sunglasses (Oakley) when it's bright. A baseball cap's peak further increases vision by stopping light over the top. If I look like a drug dealer, who cares?
 
Golly, this thread is getting as busy as the one about the Paris terrorist attacks! :D
 
RedRobin said:
....It's not quite so black or white as that. If you have already seen and are aware of what traffic conditions are beyond any temporary lessening of vision and it's safe, then you need not back off (assuming that your speed is not reckless in the first place) and indeed you should not back off. Backing off at every single instance of very temporary 'hiccups' in full vision while night driving would result in a very erratic and potentially unsafe (to other road users) driving style. Keep it all smooooth, baby!

I wear amber-yellow eye shades for both night driving (greatly cuts inevitable glare) and dull grey weather (increases visual definition) and mirror sunglasses (Oakley) when it's bright. A baseball cap's peak further increases vision by stopping light over the top. If I look like a drug dealer, who cares?
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You wanna quote me something that suggests that's best practice, or are you just giving me your opinion? Give ma a reason why anyone should carry on at the same speed if they are dazzled by some idiot with their full beam on please, because I can think of none whatsoever.


Just because there was nothing in my field of vision BEFORE I was dazzled, doesn't mean a dog, dear, child.. anything really, hasn't stepped onto the road in the intervening seconds.

I'm not talking about slamming my brakes on here, I'm just creating extra time to react seeing as my view ahead is compromised... slowing to a speed that allows me to react to anything in the distance I can see to be clear... which is basically common sense... and in the Highway Code.
 
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