Automatic Car gears

Yves Geza said:
May I offer an alternative explanation, particularly @Leslie. A traditional "torque convertor" automatic employs a hydraulic coupling rather than rotating friction plates and doesn't wear when sitting stationary in "Drive". Nor do the brakes wear while the vehicle is stationary. Equally, if you're concentrating on traffic around you you might want to control the impact of being "rooted up the hole" by coming off or going on to the brakes of your own car as it is moved. You might conceivably even want to share the force of the impact with the vehicle in front!

More defensively, I've often moved my car forward a foot or two in traffic when I had no faith that the vehicle I could see growing in my rear view mirror had judged its stopping distance correctly.
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When I see a stationary queue ahead and lots of fast moving traffic behind, I ensure I slow down early and steadily, and leave a deliberate gap between me and the stationary car in front to allow the manoeuvre you do.

Having said that, the only time I recall being rear ended was when I was in a chain of about 6 cars each rear ending the other, we were in a contraflow, one car missed their exit to return to the left carriageway and decided to stop and reverse, on a busy dual carriageway contraflow!
 
Why not just RTFM for your car then everyone would get it right! :exit:
 
Yves Geza said:
. Equally, if you're concentrating on traffic around you you might want to control the impact of being "rooted up the hole" by coming off or going on to the brakes of your own car as it is moved. You might conceivably even want to share the force of the impact with the vehicle in front!

.
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OUCH !
 
Another good question is the order you put it to P and handbrake:
1. P -> handbrake -> release foot brake
or
2. N -> handbrake -> release foot brake -> P

I'm a firm believer in method 2 to ensure the car isn't hold in place by the gearbox.



For N, I use it at traffic lights. I hear less of engine noise when when I shift to N while stationary. I thought this means I can save a fraction of fuel while waiting.
 
DorsetDude said:
Even better reason for using the handbrake.

I think if you are sitting at red lights with your foot on the brake, whether an automatic or a manual you are a lazy driver I'm afraid.
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Rubbish...

It makes you more of a defensive driver (who may also be lazy).
If you leave your foot on the brake you are giving the person coming up behind more oppertunity to notice that you have actually stopped or are stopping - as in NOT GOING - there is a world of difference.

Putting on your handbrake, & no brake light DOESN'T tell the car behind you are stopped / not moving.
 
Diving Pete said:
Putting on your handbrake, & no brake light DOESN'T tell the car behind you are stopped / not moving.
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No it doesnt but good observation skills from the approaching driver should be enough to assess that traffic is at a standstill without any lights on show.

So if i sit at a red light with just the handbrake on and get rear ended i guess its my fault for not having my brake lights on!!!!

It seems nowadays hand brakes whether manual or electronic are a fashion accessory just like indicators :lol:
 
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Don't forget that after any heavy braking one should come off the brakes as soon as possible to allow the disks to cool evenly. Staying on the brake will cause warping.
 
I rarely brake heavily enough to worry about warping my disks - That's London traffic for you - quite happy when I can get into top gear...lol
 
stupar said:
No it doesnt but good observation skills from the approaching driver should be enough to assess that traffic is at a standstill without any lights on show.

So if i sit at a red light with just the handbrake on and get rear ended i guess its my fault for not having my brake lights on!!!!

It seems nowadays hand brakes whether manual or electronic are a fashion accessory just like indicators :LOL:
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Cars have high level brake lights so that other drivers, other than the one immediately behind you also get an early warning that you have stopped. If people are dazzled by the lights perhaps a visit to the opticians should be in order.
 
I only use Neutral to move the car forwards a few meters whilst in the queue for Santa Pod race way :)

Nope, no need for any of that; my hand brake engages and disengages automatically, the engine switches off if the parameters are ok and allowing it, I can't see the need to get it our of S. And when I'm in manual override, it will automatically downshift to S1 anyway...

I'm afraid it is an old wives tail but many will still defend it.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Towing mostly. And I guess so guys with spanners can spin the wheels when it's on one of those lift things before sucking in air through their teeth and charging you a lot of money.



I think there was some advice from the IAM (really, not always the greatest source) not to leave in park at the lights. If somebody runs into your car it could trash the gearbox cost you a lot more. Far safer to leave your foot on the brake so if you get hit you will get shunted into the traffic :)
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Neutral, hand brake on... please don't sit with your foot on the brake blinding the person behind with your high level brake light.
 
nilagin said:
Cars have high level brake lights so that other drivers, other than the one immediately behind you also get an early warning that you have stopped. If people are dazzled by the lights perhaps a visit to the opticians should be in order.
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Im not fussed about sitting behind someone with their foot on the brake but it is laziness and not how most folk were taught to drive.

I think you have missed the point im trying to make. Sitting with your foot on the brake whilst stationary does not guarantee not being rear ended.
The point is if a queue of stationary vehicles are all on the hand brake a following driver should be making enough observations to realise that the vehicles ahead have stopped.

You should NEVER rely solely on a set of lights as guidance.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Neutral, hand brake on... please don't sit with your foot on the brake blinding the person behind with your high level brake light.
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If you're blinded by brake lights should you be driving. Standard practice is to stop and leave foot on foot take if stopping for a short time ie in start stop traffic. It also means if you're rear ended the car won't be pushed forward and your right foot onto the accelerator causing further accidents
 
ST4 said:
If you're blinded by brake lights should you be driving. Standard practice is to stop and leave foot on foot take if stopping for a short time ie in start stop traffic. It also means if you're rear ended the car won't be pushed forward and your right foot onto the accelerator causing further accidents
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If you cant gauge stationary traffic without the assistance of lights should you be driving?

"Sorry your honour, his brake lights werent on so i didnt bother attempting to stop"
 
stupar said:
If you cant gauge stationary traffic without the assistance of lights should you be driving?

"Sorry your honour, his brake lights werent on so i didnt bother attempting to stop"
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Exactly, a load of BS being perpetuated in this thread lately and not just by ST4. If you cant see that a red traffic light and a line of cars behind it and not realise they are stationery you must be thick.
 
stupar said:
Im not fussed about sitting behind someone with their foot on the brake but it is laziness and not how most folk were taught to drive.

I think you have missed the point im trying to make. Sitting with your foot on the brake whilst stationary does not guarantee not being rear ended.
The point is if a queue of stationary vehicles are all on the hand brake a following driver should be making enough observations to realise that the vehicles ahead have stopped.

You should NEVER rely solely on a set of lights as guidance.
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Just because you're taught to use the handbrake, it doesn't make it right, that was just someone's perception when they wrote the book. Sitting with your foot on the brake pedal isn't lazy neither, it just means you ready to move off sooner.
I'd rather sit with my brake lights on, giving other motorists a fair warning, it's no different to the tail car on a motorway putting on their hazards to give other drivers fair notice of slow or static traffic ahead. It may not be a guarantee of not being hit from behind but it may well reduce the chances. Regardless of whether people keep their foot on the brake pedal or not, they do not dazzle.
 
DorsetDude said:
Exactly, a load of BS being perpetuated in this thread lately and not just by ST4. If you cant see that a red traffic light and a line of cars behind it and not realise they are stationery you must be thick.
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That is assuming that a queue of traffic is always because of traffic lights, which isn't the case. Why is it BS trying to protect the rear end of your car or your cars occupants from someone who isn't. or may not be paying attention.
 
stupar said:
If you cant gauge stationary traffic without the assistance of lights should you be driving?

"Sorry your honour, his brake lights werent on so i didnt bother attempting to stop"
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Where in that quote you did does he actually advocate what you are suggesting.

It is very simple, if you honestly get dazzled by break lights you should get your eyes tested it clean your windows or something. But that is besides the point, it is standard practise to apply the foot brake in such circumstances.
 
nilagin said:
Just because you're taught to use the handbrake, it doesn't make it right, that was just someone's perception when they wrote the book. Sitting with your foot on the brake pedal isn't lazy neither, it just means you ready to move off sooner.
I'd rather sit with my brake lights on, giving other motorists a fair warning, it's no different to the tail car on a motorway putting on their hazards to give other drivers fair notice of slow or static traffic ahead. It may not be a guarantee of not being hit from behind but it may well reduce the chances. Regardless of whether people keep their foot on the brake pedal or not, they do not dazzle.
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In the same way that sitting with your foot on the brake doesn't make it right.
Ready to move off sooner!!! - I'm sure the transition time from brake pedal to accelerator is probably equal to handbrake on to handbrake off and certainly not as gross as you may be alluding to.
A car putting its hazards on on the motorway is not always indicative of slow traffic ahead just light flashing your headlights to an on coming vehicle doesn't mean "on you go mate turn right across my path"
 
dejongj said:
It is very simple, if you honestly get dazzled by break lights you should get your eyes tested it clean your windows or something. But that is besides the point, it is standard practise to apply the foot brake in such circumstances.
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Where did I say I get dazzled by brake lights???

And the quote was a case of tongue firmly in cheek!!!
 
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stupar said:
In the same way that sitting with your foot on the brake doesn't make it right.
Ready to move off sooner!!! - I'm sure the transition time from brake pedal to accelerator is probably equal to handbrake on to handbrake off and certainly not as gross as you may be alluding to.
A car putting its hazards on on the motorway is not always indicative of slow traffic ahead just light flashing your headlights to an on coming vehicle doesn't mean "on you go mate turn right across my path"
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Unwritten rules on motorway use of hazards.
1. Quick brief flash, a thank you, usually used by articulated lorry drivers when you let them move into your lane.
2. Extended use whether on the hard shoulder or out in the lanes, denoting slow or static traffic.

I can't think of any other times I've seen hazard lights used on a motorway or dual carriageway for that matter.
 
stupar said:
Where did I say I get dazzled by brake lights???

And the quote was a case of tongue firmly in cheek!!!
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The first paragraph was directed to your quote. The second was a generic/royal you ;) hence it is a new paragraph away from the quote.
 
Rapscallion said:
When I see a stationary queue ahead and lots of fast moving traffic behind, I ensure I slow down early and steadily, and leave a deliberate gap between me and the stationary car in front to allow the manoeuvre you do.
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....Me too.

My car has a DSG box of tricks and flappy paddle gearshifters on the steering wheel. I drive in D-mode (Automatic normal, not Automatic S-mode Sport!) in town and instantly switch to M-mode (Manual) as soon as my shoulders are level with the GLF sign.

I only ever use the handbrake when parking and leaving the car. I even leave the handbrake off when in my garage - This is to avoid the brake pads sticking to the discs after a wet run.

Btw, when you lift the handbrake lever (if your car has a lever rather than a big button) always keep the release button depressed throughout the lifting action. That ratchet sound you hear when you don't use that method is not good for your handbrake mechanism, I'm told.
 
RedRobin said:
Btw, when you lift the handbrake lever (if your car has a lever rather than a big button) always keep the release button depressed throughout the lifting action. That ratchet sound you hear when you don't use that method is not good for your handbrake mechanism, I'm told.
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Personally, I always press the button in. However, the only thing you will damage is the ratchet system itself - and the wear will be minimal. Most likely half of the rest of the car will wear out before the handbrake ratchet does.


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
Personally, I always press the button in. However, the only thing you will damage is the ratchet system itself - and the wear will be minimal. Most likely half of the rest of the car will wear out before the handbrake ratchet does.

Steve.
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....Yes, perhaps what you will potentially damage is only the ratchet system itself as you say. Either way, like you, I keep the button depressed.

As for the rest, I have already driven my car 112,000 miles from new and many many components have been replaced as performance modifications, hence further extending the car's life. Regular professional maintenance on a German car usually reaps benefits.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Neutral, hand brake on... please don't sit with your foot on the brake blinding the person behind with your high level brake light.
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Nah, if it's all the same to you I'd rather be visible and not get hit. Also, ready to start when the lights change.

Really, if the brake light is blinding you then don't ever drive in fog. Rear fog lights are wicked ;)

RedRobin said:
....Me too.

My car has a DSG box of tricks and flappy paddle gearshifters on the steering wheel. I drive in D-mode (Automatic normal, not Automatic S-mode Sport!) in town and instantly switch to M-mode (Manual) as soon as my shoulders are level with the GLF sign.
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I have the same box and paddle shift on my Octavia VrS. Only time I use paddle shift is on snow/ice. Only time I use S is from bride's house to church :) Never used manual - I thought I'd use it a lot but I never have.
 
If (the royal) you want to sit there for minutes on end with your foot on the brake, do it. I will still refer to people that do as lazy b4stards. Que sera sera.

And if you are all doing it "to be seen" as you claim (bs) , why bother when there are one or more cars pulled up and stopped behind you at the same set of red lights? The cars behind you are then blocking you from being seen anyway so you may as well take your foot off. But no thats not the real reason is it, the real reason is you're lazy.
 
I think I will change the gears on my car as I see fit!!
 
Having driven for over 40 years now with both autos and manuals, I really don't the the point of gears today.
If you are on a motor way then you are mainly in top,traffic permitting, if you are in traffic who wants to be having one off the steering wheel all the time while changing gear.
Today's autos are now so good that they give the same and in some cases better mpg than a manual, plus the added safety of having all your mind on the road and both hands on the steering wheel
 
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If there was a manual option ("proper" manual gearbox rather than the flappy paddles) available for mine (or Mrs Nod's), we'd have them. Do like them both even as autos though! Don't often play the flappy game and have only used the sport setting on the 'box to see how much difference it makes in normal use.
 
I have the flappy option too I have used it 4 or 5 times in anger and just to change down and hold the gear while overtaking then it back to good old D and eco
 
The point of using gears is to be in more control, especially when enjoying some spirited driving. Being in more control of your gears and engine revs is safer (to hell with eco) - Do you need me to explain why? The camera equivalent is to leave your camera in P-mode rather than take control in Manual or Aperture or Shutter speed.

I enjoy my driving by being very alert and focussed - I don't even play the radio etc - and keeping the car 'alert' by being in the optimum gear.
 
Gearboxes are just [inefficient] annoying things that get between the engine which make the pushy power and the wheels where you want it!

In answer to the driving Gods, Joe Craig [of Norton] once replied to his work's riders demands for 5-speed gearboxes with "Who wants more gears? All the time you're changing gear, you're not going anywhere!" and Hap Sharp [of Chaparral] said "Since we're getting wheelspin in every gear including top, we don't need a gearbox at all!" - so they got rid of it and used the left foot pedal to flap an aerodynamic wing instead!

But I'm so-much-not a driving God that I have always been dazzled and annoyed by the brake lights of the car in front. I can't quite see what's just beyond them. I've always thought that sitting on the footbrake was inconsiderate to the driver behind.
 
RedRobin said:
The point of using gears is to be in more control, especially when enjoying some spirited driving. Being in more control of your gears and engine revs is safer (to hell with eco) - Do you need me to explain why? The camera equivalent is to leave your camera in P-mode rather than take control in Manual or Aperture or Shutter speed.

I enjoy my driving by being very alert and focussed - I don't even play the radio etc - and keeping the car 'alert' by being in the optimum gear.
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Spirited driving has no place on the public road. If I disagree with my car's choice of gear, I do override it, generally to get more engine braking or lower revs. As for the P mode analogy, again, most of the time, it does just as good a job as the other automatic modes - A and S. It's been quite a while since driving's been that enjoyable (but even driving a shed is more enjoyable than public transport!) but at least our (family Nod) cars are nice places to sit in traffic!
 
I'm not a fan of automatic gearboxes but I'm sure they know when to change gear better than most of us do.


Steve.
 
I used to be a manual-only man, hated an American auto renting in America. But with my current Merc, I have to say I'm convinced.

With a good automatic box, spirited driving will still be fun.

Agree with Nod, very nice analogy.
 
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