Auto ISO help

davidh6781

davidh6781

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Unsure if i am missing the point however but here is my question.

Recently i have been to a few wedding fayres and overheard photographers discussing there settings. and this wouldn't be the first time either.

Is there a good reason to leave your camera in Auto iso? i shoot weddings too and always adjust accordingly to the situation rather than auto iso. just puzzled to know if ive missed a good point which i could benefit from?
 
ISO performance on moodern cameras is so good you can typically use up 1600 with impunity.

It would mean that the camera would be able to use a higher shutter speed / narrower aperture than would be required with a lower iso.

EG with fixed iso 400, you may need f2.8 1/40s. With auto iso the camera may select iso 1600, f2.8, 1/160s improving your chances of freezing motion / minimising camera shake.
 
I see what you mean and i think i may have to have a go and see what happens. but i just wasn't sure on my manual approach etc, can I limit the iso does anyone know on a 7d?
 
davidh6781 said:
I see what you mean and i think i may have to have a go and see what happens. but i just wasn't sure on my manual approach etc, can I limit the iso does anyone know on a 7d?
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Yes, you can set the maximum ISO that the camera will use and also the minimum shutter speed.

Not sure if the 6D and 7D are the same but the 6D you can set a minimum shutter speed or leave it at auto. Auto will ensure a minimum shutter speed of 1 over the focal length.
 
The trouble wiht auto iso is...auto.. the camera is then setting the exposure for you.. whcih you may not like... On my cameras (canon 1d series) theres no exposure compensation with auto iso like you can with av or tv ... which makes it even more useless.

there is a workaround by going into a semi auto mode and setting min/max and then using auto iso.. but then you cant change aperture or shutter on the fly ..
 
The only time ibhave ever found myself using auto iso was when I was shooting a rugby match (nit something I usually do) the lighting was for ever changing so found it useful in that situation.
But other than that I cant say i have used it at all
 
iam also using manual most of the time.
iam very particular about my ISO level.
i try to set it mostly at 100 to compromise on my shutter speed and aperture.
ofcourse if the shutter speed went too low or i need smaller aperture,i will up my ISO or use a tripod.
 
KIPAX said:
The trouble wiht auto iso is...auto.. the camera is then setting the exposure for you.. whcih you may not like... On my cameras (canon 1d series) theres no exposure compensation with auto iso like you can with av or tv ... which makes it even more useless.

there is a workaround by going into a semi auto mode and setting min/max and then using auto iso.. but then you cant change aperture or shutter on the fly ..
Click to expand...

You need a Nikon...

says the man who just sold his D7100 !
 
Turbonetics said:
i try to set it mostly at 100 to compromise on my shutter speed and aperture.
ofcourse if the shutter speed went too low or i need smaller aperture,i will up my ISO or use a tripod.
Click to expand...

The only time I ever go below iso 400 is if the scene is too bright and I need to be wide open.. shutter maxed out so have to lower iso... otherwise its 400 as a start point..

point being.. everyone shoots differently with different equipment.. hard to advise anyone what iso to start at IMHO
 
I agree withbwhat kipax has said, I always use my lowest iso 50 or 100 fir long exposures, with the exeption of startrails or light painting when I will use 400 upwards to 3200 on rare occasions it all depends upon personal choices
 
There seems to be a lot of resistance to using auto ISO on here.
Personally, I don't see the problem.
Everyone uses autofocus.
Everyone depends on their camera for metering.

Why not use auto ISO?
On my Nikons the camera only changes the ISO up if I run out of options, or I don't change the ISO myself when the shutter speed is too low. I set the parameters for when I want the camera to change the ISO.
 
kendo1 said:
There seems to be a lot of resistance to using auto ISO on here.
Personally, I don't see the problem.
Everyone uses autofocus.
Everyone depends on their camera for metering.

Why not use auto ISO?
On my Nikons the camera only changes the ISO up if I run out of options, or I don't change the ISO myself when the shutter speed is too low. I set the parameters for when I want the camera to change the ISO.
Click to expand...

This is exactly how I feel. Why not use it.
I've just switched from a 40D to 6D and when walking about taking random photos sometimes I would forget to check the shutter speed and ended up with blurred shots. Now that I don't have to worry about it, my keeper rate it much better. the 6D has fantastic ISO performance so I'm more than happy to get a shot at 6400, where as with the 40D I had it set to 100-200 to keep noise down to the detriment of many photos.

Sure when I shooting in a controlled situation such as a landscape, then I will do things manually to get the effect I want.
 
kendo1 said:
There seems to be a lot of resistance to using auto ISO on here.
Personally, I don't see the problem.
Everyone uses autofocus.
Everyone depends on their camera for metering.

Why not use auto ISO?
On my Nikons the camera only changes the ISO up if I run out of options, or I don't change the ISO myself when the shutter speed is too low. I set the parameters for when I want the camera to change the ISO.
Click to expand...

I'm not resistant, I just don't see the point :shrug:.
I use autofocus because my camera focusses better than I could with the tools it gives me (it was designed to autofocus)
I don't 'depend on my camera for metering' I use my camera as a meter, I tell it what to meter and make decisions based on it's readings, just like I would with a hand held meter.
None of my cameras are capable of the simple ISO changes that I make. Having shot film for years I know what ISO I would choose as I get my camera out, and that will depend on what light is about, and importantly - whether I'm adding to that light, my camera has no idea what I'll be balancing or how I'll want to balance it.

Setting the ISO to me is like setting the AF and drive modes, it's a personal choice my camera can't make better than I can.
 
Phil V said:
Setting the ISO to me is like setting the AF and drive modes, it's a personal choice my camera can't make better than I can.
Click to expand...

in your cicumstances.. with the photography you do.. unfortunatly not all situations allow for full manual control to be used and in fact the truth is the opposite of what you write... in some conditions...

and thus we go full circle to the...all ways are good ways..use whats required
 
Nikon has implemented the auto ISO and EC "better" IMO. With Nikon you can even be in manual mode with auto ISO and use EC to push the ISO/exposure around (or one of the other two manual settings).

I use auto ISO almost exclusively (w/ min SS and max ISO set). I also use A priority (Av) a lot. I don't use Shutter priority (Tv) often because I don't like how the camera "thinks"/behaves in this mode.
IMO, auto ISO and semi auto modes are not a lack of ISO/exposure control. You just have to know what the camera is going to do and why. If you don't like it, change something else.

I think a lot of people don't understand how their camera "thinks" in auto modes and therefore auto settings *is* a loss of control (or it is confusing/slow).
 
Phil V said:
I don't 'depend on my camera for metering' I use my camera as a meter, I tell it what to meter and make decisions based on it's readings, just like I would with a hand held meter.
Click to expand...

Maybe I should have said 'use' rather than 'depend', though a lot of people do depend on it, as not everyone carries a meter or has your experience Phil.

It's just another tool in my opinion. It's up to the photographer to make the final decision on how the tool is used.
I grew up with manual focus and match needle cameras. Pretty much everyone was resistant to change back then. Not surprising really as auto focus was pretty crude. And as for using Auto!
 
KIPAX said:
in your cicumstances.. with the photography you do.. unfortunatly not all situations allow for full manual control to be used and in fact the truth is the opposite of what you write... in some conditions...

and thus we go full circle to the...all ways are good ways..use whats required
Click to expand...

Who's making the assumptions:thinking: (I don't just shoot weddings y know)

I never mentioned full manual control :shake:, I only talked about using my cameras meter rather than assuming it's right :), and setting ISO manually in the same way I set AF mode or Drive mode - for the conditions / shot I want :thumbs:.

I can't fathom how that's telling anyone else that it's the only way or the opposite to the truth :thinking:

I think you may have read something I didn't write Tony;)
 
sk66 said:
Nikon has implemented the auto ISO and EC "better" IMO. With Nikon you can even be in manual mode with auto ISO and use EC to push the ISO/exposure around (or one of the other two manual settings).

...
Click to expand...
Like I said...
Phil V said:
...
None of my cameras are capable of the simple ISO changes that I make. ...
Click to expand...

I don't have any Nikon cameras, but even if I did, would they know when I'm shooting rally cars at dusk I want 3200 ISO whereas when I'm in a dark room shooting the first dance at a wedding I want 400 or 800 (depending on the ambient and how much of it I want to include) or even 200 to knock it out completely.

Or when I'm in a studio and I want to up the ISO to get my speedlights to recycle quicker?

I have nothing against Auto ISO, but it can't think the way I do (yet)
 
Phil V said:
Like I said...


I don't have any Nikon cameras, but even if I did, would they know when I'm shooting rally cars at dusk I want 3200 ISO whereas when I'm in a dark room shooting the first dance at a wedding I want 400 or 800 (depending on the ambient and how much of it I want to include) or even 200 to knock it out completely.

Or when I'm in a studio and I want to up the ISO to get my speedlights to recycle quicker?

I have nothing against Auto ISO, but it can't think the way I do (yet)
Click to expand...

Obviously a camera never knows what you're shooting or "want." And I've never chosen ISO "first" as a primary setting. It's usually aperture or SS that matters the most. Sometimes it's both, but ISO is always set to what you need.

But yes, a camera can pick the right ISO for what you want. At least Nikon's can.
In aperture priority with auto ISO it will use the base ISO set until the SS reaches the minimum set, and then it will increase the ISO up to the max set. After it reaches the Max ISO setting it starts dropping below minimum SS. EC changes affect things in the same sequence.
This gets you the min ISO at your chosen aperture unless you can't have it (due to SS reaching minimum). That's exactly what I want in most cases but it's not good for panning though.

I don't like S priority because Nikons change aperture first and I "always" care about the aperture. So I'll switch to manual mode.

In full manual mode you set the SS/A to whatever you want (for ambient in your example) and the ISO is set based upon metering mode/point. Just changing metering mode/point can have as big of an impact as EC (and it's probably more important), but with Nikon EC will move the ISO setting. (I have the function/preview buttons set to matrix/cw and the camera to spot by default)

And the camera can use finer adjustments to ISO in auto than you can manually.

FWIW, I am not saying it's better. In constant lighting situations full manual is probably easier... (set it/forget it)
 
sk66 said:
Obviously a camera never knows what you're shooting or "want." And I've never chosen ISO "first" as a primary setting. It's usually aperture or SS that matters the most. Sometimes it's both, but ISO is always set to what you need.

But yes, a camera can pick the right ISO for what you want. At least Nikon's can.
In aperture priority with auto ISO it will use the base ISO set until the SS reaches the minimum set, and then it will increase the ISO up to the max set. After it reaches the Max ISO setting it starts dropping below minimum SS. EC changes affect things in the same sequence.
This gets you the min ISO at your chosen aperture unless you can't have it (due to SS reaching minimum). That's exactly what I want in most cases but it's not good for panning though.

I don't like S priority because Nikons change aperture first and I "always" care about the aperture. So I'll switch to manual mode.

In full manual mode you set the SS/A to whatever you want (for ambient in your example) and the ISO is set based upon metering mode/point. Just changing metering mode/point can have as big of an impact as EC (and it's probably more important), but with Nikon EC will move the ISO setting. (I have the function/preview buttons set to matrix/cw and the camera to spot by default)

And the camera can use finer adjustments to ISO in auto than you can manually.

FWIW, I am not saying it's better. In constant lighting situations full manual is probably easier... (set it/forget it)
Click to expand...

Sorry I disagree, the camera choosing ISO, like all the 'exposure triangle' number crunchers is almost certainly over thinking things. I don't need to know when ISO 320 or 1250 or whatever might gain me an nth of quality. In the UK; 100 when it's bright, 200 most sunny days, 400 the rest of the year in daylight, 800 as it gets duller etc there's no need to overcomplicate it.

Like you my aperture is usually my chosen priority, so I pick up my camera on a typical British day and set 400 (that's the first third of the exposure triangle I can forget). Then I meter my subject at f2.8 and it gives me 1/1000 sec, which is fine for my std lens and off I go shooting, watching for the shutter speed dropping if I stop down (though it shouldn't go too far in that light).

The fact that my camera might have chosen ISO 200 and a shutter speed of 1/500 is completely irrelevant. I've got my shot at 2.8 and no-one would see a difference in the 2 shots.
 
KIPAX said:
The trouble wiht auto iso is...auto.. the camera is then setting the exposure for you.. whcih you may not like... On my cameras (canon 1d series) theres no exposure compensation with auto iso like you can with av or tv ... which makes it even more useless.

there is a workaround by going into a semi auto mode and setting min/max and then using auto iso.. but then you cant change aperture or shutter on the fly ..
Click to expand...

Not sure whether you were aware of the custom function tweaks which basically gives you the same setup as the Nikon.

On the 1d III upwards, under safety shift, change it to enable ISO.

As i do wildlife, i shoot in AV, so set two custom functions with different minimum shutter speeds. Set your default ISO to 200, and should you not be able to achieve the correct exposure at your aperture and min shutter, your ISO will bump up to he required level.

The upside of this is that EC can still be used, as you are in AV (or Tv) mode.
 
ISO is not only about the sensor's sensitivity to light. (well... bear with me..:)
Personally I will always decide where I want it and would never let the camera take that decision off me.
The way I shoot Dynamic Range is the single most important thing in my photography ( hence me thinking to jump ships Canon 11stops vs Nikon 14stops)
The lower ISO the more DR you have!
Sure your pic at 1/200 f2.8 ISO 100 and 1/3200 f2.8 ISO 1600 (hope didn't make a mistake with this quick calculation) will look the same (save noise) but the difference in the amount of detail you will be able to pull back if need be is huge. Same goes for colour and tone.
 
Phil V said:
Like you my aperture is usually my chosen priority, so I pick up my camera on a typical British day and set 400 (that's the first third of the exposure triangle I can forget). Then I meter my subject at f2.8 and it gives me 1/1000 sec, which is fine for my std lens and off I go shooting, watching for the shutter speed dropping if I stop down (though it shouldn't go too far in that light).

The fact that my camera might have chosen ISO 200 and a shutter speed of 1/500 is completely irrelevant. I've got my shot at 2.8 and no-one would see a difference in the 2 shots.
Click to expand...

The only difference is that you have to watch for the SS dropping too low and I don't. This can be a huge difference if you're working in sunlight on one side and get the chance for a grab shot in the shade (or any other large shift).
 
tommmy.star said:
I
The lower ISO the more DR you have!
Click to expand...

And color sensitivity/saturation, contrast, etc... It's all about "sensor fill."
But there aren't many times you can "have it all" in photography. And I'll always choose to give on ISO before I give on my desired aperture/SS (w/in limits).
 
KIPAX said:
The only time I ever go below iso 400 is if the scene is too bright and I need to be wide open.. shutter maxed out so have to lower iso... otherwise its 400 as a start point..

point being.. everyone shoots differently with different equipment.. hard to advise anyone what iso to start at IMHO
Click to expand...


yes,i agree that everyone shoots differently and wants different effects of the end result. i was stating base on my personal preference.
allow me to share one of my test shot shooting at ISO 12,800.
it was shot with handheld(i didn't had a tripod with me then) in AV mode of F2.8 and PP was done using LR.
the image looks pretty clean.
with 100% crop,there are still some minor noise which looks quite acceptable.
however if i had a tripod with me then,i would still shoot it at ISO 100 for a "cleaner" look,better IQ and more control during PP. just my 2 cents :)
9670060221_ff0d841c51_c.jpg
[/url] CF5P1934 by MEphotog, on Flickr[/IMG]
 
kendo1 said:
There seems to be a lot of resistance to using auto ISO on here.
Personally, I don't see the problem.
Everyone uses autofocus.
Everyone depends on their camera for metering.

Why not use auto ISO?
On my Nikons the camera only changes the ISO up if I run out of options, or I don't change the ISO myself when the shutter speed is too low. I set the parameters for when I want the camera to change the ISO.
Click to expand...

that seems to be a cool features found in Nikon.
anyway,sometimes i use manual focus if i want certain small part of the image to be sharp only because the AF is not 100% accurate at all times.
and even the metering system is not always 100% accurate.
 
Turbonetics said:
... even the metering system is not always 100% accurate.
Click to expand...

The metering system is indeed 100% accurate, like I said earlier, it's just that lots of people don't understand the question they've asked it ;)
 
Phil V said:
The metering system is indeed 100% accurate, like I said earlier, it's just that lots of people don't understand the question they've asked it ;)
Click to expand...

probably sometimes the metering system is not the result i wanted...haha
 
Turbonetics said:
probably sometimes the metering system is not the result i wanted...haha
Click to expand...

As I said before, the meter will give you a perfect exposure of a mid grey subject, if that's not what you're measuring, you have to put your own thought in. The meter hasn't got a clue what you're measuring and what you hope to achieve.

That said, for most people, most of the time, it's accurate enough.
 
Phil V said:
As I said before, the meter will give you a perfect exposure of a mid grey subject, if that's not what you're measuring, you have to put your own thought in. The meter hasn't got a clue what you're measuring and what you hope to achieve.

That said, for most people, most of the time, it's accurate enough.
Click to expand...

I actually "prefer" the meter to be off a little. If one subject is white/bright (car/bird/dress) the meter will underexpose saving the highlights and details, and if a subject is black/dark (car/bird/suit) it will overexpose bringing out details. This is why I use spot metering 95% of the time.

Obviously this has it's negatives as well and it's not what I let happen if I have time to shift metering point/mode or add EC. But both are typically w/in the adjustment capability of a raw file. Reducing the exposure generally reduces noise, and increasing exposure in post does not generally add more noise than high ISO does (In fact, it can add less noise plus I can choose how/where it's added).

But it does mean I have to touch almost every image.
 
sk66 said:
I actually "prefer" the meter to be off a little. If one subject is white/bright (car/bird/dress) the meter will underexpose saving the highlights and details, and if a subject is black/dark (car/bird/suit) it will overexpose bringing out details. This is why I use spot metering 95% of the time.

Obviously this has it's negatives as well and it's not what I let happen if I have time to shift metering point/mode or add EC. But both are typically w/in the adjustment capability of a raw file. Reducing the exposure generally reduces noise, and increasing exposure in post does not generally add more noise than high ISO does (In fact, it can add less noise plus I can choose how/where it's added).

But it does mean I have to touch almost every image.
Click to expand...
I just read this?

You set your meter to spot and then freely underexpose / overexpose because you can fix it in post?

I'm not too sure that's what I'd describe as a professional approach to exposure.
 
Phil V said:
As I said before, the meter will give you a perfect exposure of a mid grey subject, if that's not what you're measuring, you have to put your own thought in. The meter hasn't got a clue what you're measuring and what you hope to achieve.

That said, for most people, most of the time, it's accurate enough.
Click to expand...

:thumbs:

It's a good starting point.
The Devil is in knowing how to use the starting point to get what you want.
Experience and experimentation.
 
Phil V said:
I just read this?

You set your meter to spot and then freely underexpose / overexpose because you can fix it in post?

I'm not too sure that's what I'd describe as a professional approach to exposure.
Click to expand...

LOL, yes.
If things are changing quicker than I can shift I prefer to have lights underexposed and darks overexposed.

This is in contrast to being in full manual mode where a suddenly "white" subject will be recorded as "white" (i.e. blown) and a black subject is recorded as black (i.e. lacking detail).
 
sk66 said:
No EC w/ auto ISO? Hell no! No wonder so many think auto anything is a loss of control...
Click to expand...

I can put the camera into Tv mode and set the shutter to X say 500 I can go into Cfn settings and limit the aperture to Y ...such as f2.8 with that workaround i ahve the set shutter and set fstop and can use EC with auto ISO.. its the same as manual .. I have the setup saved and it shows up as a as a MODE so i can easy get to it... one flick of the dial and all the settings are there ready to use so i dont have to change every time..
 
The problem with auto ISO and EC is that the camera's processor is constantly trying to correct the compensation you dial in, if you try to do it manually its still doing the same thing and altering the ISO to give you a balanced exposure.

Like all modes on a camera it has its uses but your supposed to learn what mode to use in any given situation because apart from full manual exposure control there is no mode thats right for every situation.
 
magicaxeman said:
Like all modes on a camera it has its uses but your supposed to learn what mode to use in any given situation because apart from full manual exposure control there is no mode thats right for every situation.
Click to expand...

eh? why do you think full manual exposure control is right for every situation? because believe me it isnt..

and what makes you think anyone in this thread doesnt know how to use all modes?
 
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