Auto focus - can you explain this.

[HoppyUK]

Just my opinion, based on what's been shown and said.

The finger appears to be pointing at the 5D2. Have I got that right? In which case, if there is a problem and your images are representative of a consistent error with the camera, then it will be better with your other camera. Furthermore, there appears to be sufficient error for it to be detectable, IMHO, with some fairly simple tests in the shop against another 5D2. Just take your tripod in and shoot a couple side by side. If the 5D2 is indeed the joker in the pack, you should see it there and then. Use your 24-70L for all of this.

You then have a choice, to either send the camera back or have a go at correcting it yourself. I'm not sure the end result would actually be any different if Canon did this for you, your choice. But send it back or not, what I would certainly do is dial in both an amount of across the board adjustment, then some tweaking for each individual lens.

And then see how you get on. Does that work satisfactorily? Sleep on it, and decide whether that is a long term solution or if you are still uncomfortable, send it back to Canon or get it exchanged.

FWIW, when I calibrated my three L lenses on a 5D2, I found they were all very close to optimum. My 17-40L and 70-200L are both at zero, and I have +6 dialled in on my 24-105L which is a compromise between about +4 and +8 (IIRC) which I was getting at different focal lengths and distances. I nearly went blind doing this!

If that sounds like a lot, it most certainly is not - it's only a few mm over a distance of 2.5m with the 24-105L at mid-range focal lengths, whereas depth of field at f/4 is a few inches - you can only detect these tiny shifts at very big magnificaton. I only did the micro adjust because it was there and I could, but it'll be a happy day when I, as a user, can nail the focusing anywhere near that accuracy in practise. I have heard mention that +/-5 is effectively zero, and messing about with +3 and -2 here and there is pretty much a waste of time. I believe that.

The other thing is I was seriously impressed with the consistency of the 5D2 with all my lenses. That is an amazing level of accuracy, and the way I could completely defocus the lens and then refocus and nail it again and again was pretty remarkable I think.

Good luck, don't get fed up. Whatever the problem is, it's fixable and you'll be very happy with your 5D2 I'm certain

 

[Tugster]

Here is a good read from another board. If you take your time and read the full thread and dowload the test targets, Microadjustment becomes quite easy.
Good Luck

 

[tdodd]

Dav, did the 7D testing lead you to any further certainty about where the problem(s) is(are)?

 

[FlyTVR]

Dav, did the 7D testing lead you to any further certainty about where the problem(s) is(are)?

Hi Tim.

After a days shooting - with guns, not cameras, we carried loads of tests with a £20 note stuck to the wall using the 70-200 bolted to the 5D.

Lens / body still appeared to be front focusing. With full +20 adjustment the results could be turned round to almost what manual focus via live view produced.

Then got my mate to try the same experiment with the 7D. Joy - we thought. The image from the 7D blew the 5D out of the water. I was all fired up to take the body back to Jessops. BUT - big BUT. It was midnight by now and tiime for mate + his 7d to go home. AFTER he left I looked at the 7D shot exif - he'd (or maybe I) had switched to F8. DOH!!!

So after all that, we'd proved NOTHING.

I continued on into the night until 4AM. I tried testing the lens at min distance and 5 metres. It soon became apparent to me that the adjustments I had made actually had negative impact as I increased the distance. At 5metres the lens performed best with no adjustment and was coparable to manual focus via live view.

By this point I was knackered and gave up. I figured that as I'd probably use the 70-200 at larger distances, the best approach was to leave off any adjustment. If I need to shoot up close with it, I'll make sure I shoot at F11 in the studio rather than my 'norm' F8.

I'll repeat some more experiments when I get some more time.

Hope all that makes sense? AND a big thanks to all that have tried to help me out.

 

[tdodd]

Ouch. It all sounds pretty horrendous. I feel for you.

If you are finding you do need different amounts of adjustment at different subject distances I *think* that points more towards a problem with the lens(es) rather than the body, but maybe Hoppy or someone else can confirm. Of course, the body might also be a bit out too, but it sounds like you might have a more complicated problem to deal with if you've got problems with a Canon body and Sigma lenses. They might each have to go back to their respective manufacturers/suppliers. Being forced to shoot at f/11 when you've paid for an f/2.8 lens sucks big time.

If any of the stuff is still under warranty I definitely think you should send it in for a full calibration, before you lose the opportunity to get it done for free.

 

[FlyTVR]

Ouch. It all sounds pretty horrendous. I feel for you.

If you are finding you do need different amounts of adjustment at different subject distances I *think* that points more towards a problem with the lens(es) rather than the body, but maybe Hoppy or someone else can confirm. Of course, the body might also be a bit out too, but it sounds like you might have a more complicated problem to deal with if you've got problems with a Canon body and Sigma lenses. They might each have to go back to their respective manufacturers/suppliers. Being forced to shoot at f/11 when you've paid for an f/2.8 lens sucks big time.

If any of the stuff is still under warranty I definitely think you should send it in for a full calibration, before you lose the opportunity to get it done for free.

Thanks Tim. That's sound advice. The body is def under warranty, so I think I'll send it in just for piece of mind. Trouble is I have a wedding in a few weeks, so it might be a bit risky i.e. would it come back in time?

 

[tdodd]

Thanks Tim. That's sound advice. The body is def under warranty, so I think I'll send it in just for piece of mind. Trouble is I have a wedding in a few weeks, so it might be a bit risky i.e. would it come back in time?

Hard to say. I've taken my 24-70 into Elstree twice now to be calibrated and repaired. Even though it was about 2 months outside warranty the repair and return was carried out free of charge as "goodwill". I have CPS Gold membership, which I'm sure expedited return. Both times it was despatched within three workings days from dropping it off, and delivered the following working day. If you are not a CPS member I suspect things will take longer, how much longer I'm afraid I do not know.

 

[trencheel303]

I'm frustrated - bordering on photographically depressed. In the simple world - where I live, a 5D should knock my socks off. In my heart I know something is amis with my 5D.

I had the exact same feeling with a 450D I used to own. There was nothing wrong with it per-se, I just wasn't happy with the peacemeal focussing accuracy of it in poorer light. it's not an unknown fact that the 450D and similar entry level bodies won't deliver pro-spec AF in challenging conditions - but as a recent new owner of a 'big camera' I didn't want to hear it, and, due to the conditions I work in, I was never truly happy with it.

I ended up trading 'up' to a camera with better AF and haven't been happier.

Whether or not it's illogical I understand your feeling about the camera. When it comes to AF I am very, very fussy and so I think a 1 series (or a 7D) is all I'd be happy with. Perhaps you too need to re-evaluate your kit and your needs.

As logical as us human beings try to be we sometimes fail miserably at it!

 

[HoppyUK]

Ouch. It all sounds pretty horrendous. I feel for you.

If you are finding you do need different amounts of adjustment at different subject distances I *think* that points more towards a problem with the lens(es) rather than the body, but maybe Hoppy or someone else can confirm. Of course, the body might also be a bit out too, but it sounds like you might have a more complicated problem to deal with if you've got problems with a Canon body and Sigma lenses. They might each have to go back to their respective manufacturers/suppliers. Being forced to shoot at f/11 when you've paid for an f/2.8 lens sucks big time.

If any of the stuff is still under warranty I definitely think you should send it in for a full calibration, before you lose the opportunity to get it done for free.

Agree with Tim, I think you've suffered enough

But, and this is a big but, why are you testing with the 70-200 Sigma. I thought you were trying to establish whether or not you have a focusing problem with the camera? In which case, as I mentioned before, to get any meaningful results you need to test with your 24-70L first and foremost, particularly as Canon won't take any notice of anything to do with Sigma.

If you have an AF issue, it will show up with all lenses. Of the three you have available, the 24-70L should be the most dependable and if that combo doesn't work properly, Canon will fix it FOC. Then you can test your other lenses with confidence, and take it from there.

And furthermore, if I was to pick any lens that is likely to have AF issues between distance and close up and at different focal lengths, I think a 70-200 2.8 Sigma would probably be close to the top of the list. Not that I've tried it, just a hunch - it's the f/2.8 bit that pushes the optical envelope a little too far for comfort on a lower grade zoom which, with respect, that Sigma is in relative terms.

Edit: can you not get hold of another 5D2, in a shop or whatever, and take some comparison pictures with your 24-105L? It would take ten minutes and the sort of error you appear to be getting would be apparent. And it would disappear with the new body. If that draws a blank, do the same again using the Sigma. One way or another that will isolate the problem. No need to drive yourself nuts at 4am