Auto Car drivers, lag - is it just me?

DorsetDude

DorsetDude

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You're coming up to a roundabout/give way/T junction so you ease off the power, you see no cars are coming so you press the accelerator to get moving and...... nothing, nothing, nothing, oh hang on we're off.
Same from a standstill, Im waiting at a junction for a gap in the traffic. A gap that I would unhesitatingly have taken in a manual I now leave because I know the car wont move quick enough in response to my accelerator press.
If there is a large gap or no cars behind the last car Im waiting for I now press the accelerator as the car is still in front of me as i know by the time I get moving he'll be long gone. PITA.

Are all automatics like this? Mine's a Golf TDi DSG bluemotion in case that helps.

Cheers all.

PS i still drive a manual at the weekends so I know how the responses differ.
 
The big cars are fine but the s***box 1200 Clio is a PITA! It's one of the auto shifting manuals rather than a true auto but very often is slow to change down. I'm now in the habit of manually shifting down to the right gear as I approach a junction or roundabout. First world problems!
 
I'd say get your gearbox reset and then ran through the calibration process. Does it still happen if you are in manual mode?
 
J Veitch said:
I'd say get your gearbox reset and then ran through the calibration process. Does it still happen if you are in manual mode?
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Good question. I'll try it in "1" at a standstill and see.
 
Ours doesn't do it. (Jag XF 3 litre diesel). You don't get full acceleration in first from a standstill, but that's apparently done deliberately, to get better traction and avoid wheelspin.
 
boogie man said:
Ours doesn't do it. (Jag XF 3 litre diesel). You don't get full acceleration in first from a standstill, but that's apparently done deliberately, to get better traction and avoid wheelspin.
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The amount of torque that is produced won't do the drivetrain any favours neither. A lot of cars are restricted in 1st gear, sometimes 2nd gear too for this reason.
 
Our diesel automatic Galaxy, takes off like poop off a shovel. Very responsive indeed.
 
I have driven many DSG cars over the years and I regard it as a brilliant box, but there is always what I call the DSG Startup Lag - it's a small hesitation and your experience may be totally different and may require your car to be inspected / have the software reset by VW?

What I do is release the foot brake, and don't throttle up fully until I can feel the car inch forward or until you give it a half second count.

The lag is seen when you go from a full stop; 'Brakes on' position directly to the throttle, and there is a small delay (half to one second) before you start moving. I am pretty sure the DSG waits until the brakes have been released for a specific amount of time before engaging the clutch. If you release the brake and wait until you feel the car inch forward then hit the throttle - you should then accelerate with no delay. It could be the Brakes on control / Hill hold function on your car needs the timing adjusted??

Incidentally, it's my opinion this is actually a Feature - a designed behavior for a DSG, not a bug or unintended effect. :)
 
My Freelander 2 Auto Diesel can really take off from a standing start - but I normally just pull away gently - the way I was always taught to do. I don't have a heavy right foot :)
 
DorsetDude said:
You're coming up to a roundabout/give way/T junction so you ease off the power, you see no cars are coming so you press the accelerator to get moving and...... nothing, nothing, nothing, oh hang on we're off.
Same from a standstill, Im waiting at a junction for a gap in the traffic. A gap that I would unhesitatingly have taken in a manual I now leave because I know the car wont move quick enough in response to my accelerator press.
If there is a large gap or no cars behind the last car Im waiting for I now press the accelerator as the car is still in front of me as i know by the time I get moving he'll be long gone. PITA.

Are all automatics like this? Mine's a Golf TDi DSG bluemotion in case that helps.

Cheers all.

PS i still drive a manual at the weekends so I know how the responses differ.
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Had the same from an Audi A6 TDI too, the lag in the take up in an auto was appalling (it was a lone car) - I'd have thought they would have fixed it by now ... The auto in mine is responsive - an old jaguar - and it is responsive in the BMW's I've driven as well as Mercs, Mini's and Peugeots. I tested a DSG boxed A3 and that from memory seemed ok, mind I don't recall using it in full auto mode as the flappy paddles were fun for the short test drive :o
 
I have plenty of experience with VAGs and the DSG boxes. I own 2 in fact.

In simplest terms if you want a quicker and firmer response just stick it into S as you approach the junction. It will go out very nicely. The gears will more closely match your manual box selection, if a little more aggressive.

Then there are the internal rules of DSG box. When it shifts up or down it will preselect another gear usually in the same direction. When it get it "wrong" you are left with no drive for a couple of seconds. So it pays to anticipate what it will do. As you stop accelerating it will upshift. Start accelerating and it will downshift. Operating a brake will also trigger a downshift. If you are almost stopping at the junction you may as well stop completely or keep just rolling for a good second. You will notice the car will pick up speed much more briskly. As you go round the roundabout keep gently building up speed in D mode or it might upshift causing a slowdown as you exit.

You obviously know you absolutely must change the DSG oil every 40k miles and you have to ask the garage for this specifically. Dealers won't touch it in normal service and many won't even mention it to you. As the filter clogs up the box will start misbehaving in various ways and eventually break apart.

If your oil changes are up to date and you still believe it behaves oddly (like a very weird 2 > 3 shift) you may want to have it reset. I have full VCDS and could get it done if needed.
 
Interesting, I've been considering a DSG box in my next car but had noticed a similar thing when I borrowed my dad's a few weeks ago. Not helped by the fact my natural reaction when it pulled away too slowly was to slam my foot down hard, at which point all hell breaks loose and I have the opposite problem.

I'll keep the above in mind next time I borrow it.
 
Just got my first auto as my wife has difficulty with the clutch in a manual due to having broken her back.
I find moving off slow without hitting kickdown then all hell breaks loose.
I still reach for the gear lever to move things on due to slow move off.
May just be me needing to get used to the system?
 
LongLensPhotography said:
I have plenty of experience with VAGs and the DSG boxes. I own 2 in fact.

In simplest terms if you want a quicker and firmer response just stick it into S as you approach the junction. It will go out very nicely. The gears will more closely match your manual box selection, if a little more aggressive.

Then there are the internal rules of DSG box. When it shifts up or down it will preselect another gear usually in the same direction. When it get it "wrong" you are left with no drive for a couple of seconds. So it pays to anticipate what it will do. As you stop accelerating it will upshift. Start accelerating and it will downshift. Operating a brake will also trigger a downshift. If you are almost stopping at the junction you may as well stop completely or keep just rolling for a good second. You will notice the car will pick up speed much more briskly. As you go round the roundabout keep gently building up speed in D mode or it might upshift causing a slowdown as you exit.

You obviously know you absolutely must change the DSG oil every 40k miles and you have to ask the garage for this specifically. Dealers won't touch it in normal service and many won't even mention it to you. As the filter clogs up the box will start misbehaving in various ways and eventually break apart.

If your oil changes are up to date and you still believe it behaves oddly (like a very weird 2 > 3 shift) you may want to have it reset. I have full VCDS and could get it done if needed.
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I am assuming there are some words missing from your section on the internal rules; viz "As you stop accelerating it will upshift. Start accelerating and it will downshift. Operating a brake will also trigger a downshift."
For example if I accelerate the gearbox will normally upshift...............:) or are you describing heavy acceleration / the kickdown feature? Operating the brakes will not automatically trigger a downshift.

"You obviously know you absolutely must change the DSG oil every 40k miles"

Oil changes on the DSG gearbox are vehicle specific; and can vary dependant if the DSG box is either a 6 speed wet box or the 7 speed dry box version filled with Synthetic / Mineral Oil .
 
In my experience with my VW Golf R DSG it has nothing to do with DSG lag or what mode the box is in (eco, normal, sport) in my case. The engine settings make the biggest difference; eco, normal and race; i.e. throttle response. Then having stop/start on/off makes the next difference; i.e. not about to stop.

But even with the fastest throttle response (race) and the stop start off there is still some lag. As @Ricardodaforce force says it is turbo lag in combination with throttle response.

The best improvement to my Golf was to adapt the throttle response with one of these;
http://www.pedalbox.com/en/home/

Ok, to be honest the owner of the company is a personal friend of mine. For year he's been telling me; JP you got to put one of these on your car they are awesome. I was always like yeah yeah I just push the throttle harder and I'll do the same. Basically I didn't believe him.

Anyway when I had my Golf R (and he has two himself) and got their FSR petrol system he popped one of the pedal boxes in the package and told me to just try it and only pay if it did what he said it did.
http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/vehicle-volkswagen-vw_golf-vii_r-2.0-tsi-300-ps-(2013-)

Well I tell you one thing, the pedal box is superb. I still can't get my head around it as in theory I can't see how it works but the way it changed the response was enough for me. So much so that if I had to choose I would have send back the FSR tuning box and kept the pedal box as the only enhancement. So yes I ended up paying him for it, and not just that I bought another one for our Mercedes GL AMG which had a similar hesitation. Again absolutely perfect.

If you live near and have a Golf mark VII I would happily let you try out my pedal box. It's easy to install and remove.
 
Wee man said:
Just got my first auto as my wife has difficulty with the clutch in a manual due to having broken her back.
I find moving off slow without hitting kickdown then all hell breaks loose.
I still reach for the gear lever to move things on due to slow move off.
May just be me needing to get used to the system?
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I don't understand that, when you are moving off you are already in the lowest gear. As such you can't have kickdown?
 
lostsoulal2 said:
I am assuming there are some words missing from your section on the internal rules; viz "As you stop accelerating it will upshift. Start accelerating and it will downshift. Operating a brake will also trigger a downshift."
For example if I accelerate the gearbox will normally upshift...............:) or are you describing heavy acceleration / the kickdown feature? Operating the brakes will not automatically trigger a downshift.

"You obviously know you absolutely must change the DSG oil every 40k miles"

Oil changes on the DSG gearbox are vehicle specific; and can vary dependant if the DSG box is either a 6 speed wet box or the 7 speed dry box version filled with Synthetic / Mineral Oil .
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Yes, I forgot there are dry 7sp DSG boxes, but only for small (1.4L or less) engines. There is also another 7sp for 3.0TDI which is wet and require oil. Most 1.6, 1.9 and 2.0 TDIs will have a wet 6sp DSG.

The typical DSG will downshift a gear or two as you start to accelerate unless you pick up pace very slowly. This is probably more suited to petrol engines, but that's how they all appear to operate. If you have it remapped it will be particularly noticeable. A tell tale signed of remapped transmission is ultra quick gear changes (this is good), but also massive kick-downs and too fast upshifts which is dead annoying.
Once you reach a constant speed it will upshift as far as it can (5th at 32mph or 6th at 41), hence you want to sustain constant gentle acceleration through roundabouts or bends.

If you brake a little harder it will definitely downshift. If you are in sport mode even dropping some speed will cause a downshift.
 
MFlip said:
So is it just that by the time things sort them selves out you've already over compensated with the throttle or is there something else going on?
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Considering you are in the lowest gear when you set off you can't have kickdown as it can't get a lower gear. If there is a lag and then all hell breaks loose I would hesitate a guess it is turbo lag and you are waiting for the turbo to spool up and then once it does you hit the fun spot :)

My pickup truck, that I used to have, had a real turbo flat spot between say 1500-1900 revs. It was really annoying when getting my boat out of the water on a ramp, because it lacked power low down, and when I applied it was nothing, nothing, nothing and bang wheel spin, loose traction and risk going sideways. DTUK UK adjusted the map on my tuning box and made more of that turbo available sooner, problem was resolved and I could almost just put it in drive and let the car do the rest without any throttle. Just had to give a little.

I don't think it is inherent to the gearbox what you've got, it is likely a combination of throttle response. Now if you tell me you don't have a turbo then I'm miffed :)
 
MFlip said:
So is it just that by the time things sort them selves out you've already over compensated with the throttle or is there something else going on?
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Yes. The box presumably went into the wrong set of gears because it incorrectly anticipated your intentions (you must be a little tactical) and as it takes it time to re-select gears you have told it to go ballistic by flooring it. And so it does. Sticking it into S mode on approach would be far easier and safer if you need guaranteed and controlled response.
 
dejongj said:
Considering you are in the lowest gear when you set off you can't have kickdown as it can't get a lower gear. If there is a lag and then all hell breaks loose I would hesitate a guess it is turbo lag and you are waiting for the turbo to spool up and then once it does you hit the fun spot :)

My pickup truck, that I used to have, had a real turbo flat spot between say 1500-1900 revs. It was really annoying when getting my boat out of the water on a ramp, because it lacked power low down, and when I applied it was nothing, nothing, nothing and bang wheel spin, loose traction and risk going sideways. DTUK UK adjusted the map on my tuning box and made more of that turbo available sooner, problem was resolved and I could almost just put it in drive and let the car do the rest without any throttle. Just had to give a little.

I don't think it is inherent to the gearbox what you've got, it is likely a combination of throttle response. Now if you tell me you don't have a turbo then I'm miffed :)
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You see the DSG is a very specific box, or in fact 2 separate boxes containing gears 1, 3, 5 and 2, 4, 6, respectively. If you need 2 and 3 selected and you end up with 4 and 5 you can see where the problem is and why there is a little delay.
The typical ATF slushbox is simpler and will only go one up or one down, and only when it really sees the need to do so. A turbo lag is more of a trait of small turbo petrols or older diesels and wouldn't normally have a big effect moving into a junction.
 
Probably kick down is the wrong expression, when moving off I get a slow speed and have to add more throttle to get moving at a better speed this results in too rapid an acceleration, with me lifting off which slows me down again
I just need to work out the way to move of so that I am confident I can get into the gap in the traffic. No turbo on my car.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
You see the DSG is a very specific box, or in fact 2 separate boxes containing gears 1, 3, 5 and 2, 4, 6, respectively. If you need 2 and 3 selected and you end up with 4 and 5 you can see where the problem is and why there is a little delay.
The typical ATF slushbox is simpler and will only go one up or one down, and only when it really sees the need to do so. A turbo lag is more of a trait of small turbo petrols or older diesels and wouldn't normally have a big effect moving into a junction.
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Well I've got one and it definitely has an effect; just a split second but noticeable. And cureable as well. No delay in selecting the gears when on the move, not at all. And the Golf R is very rapid when on the move ;) The delay is a combination of throttle response and the eco stop/start system.

Wee man said:
Probably kick down is the wrong expression, when moving off I get a slow speed and have to add more throttle to get moving at a better speed this results in too rapid an acceleration, with me lifting off which slows me down again
I just need to work out the way to move of so that I am confident I can get into the gap in the traffic. No turbo on my car.
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Hmm, sounds like you just need to be more controlled with the throttle then. Less on and off. Once used to it you'll be able to shift gears with your right foot.
 
Wee man said:
Probably kick down is the wrong expression, when moving off I get a slow speed and have to add more throttle to get moving at a better speed this results in too rapid an acceleration, with me lifting off which slows me down again
I just need to work out the way to move of so that I am confident I can get into the gap in the traffic. No turbo on my car.
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What car is this? An old 1.6 petrol?
Being very constant and progressive, or S mode is what I would still suggest. Failing that ask your VW rep to demonstrate.

Or perhaps "too rapid acceleration" is actually not too rapid at all? :)
 
Im guessing that the torque converter will be the culprit for the lack of response when accelerating.
 
stupar said:
Im guessing that the torque converter will be the culprit for the lack of response when accelerating.
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DSG is the so called dual clutch transmission and it doesn't have torque converter :)
 
LongLensPhotography said:
DSG is the so called dual clutch transmission and it doesn't have torque converter :)
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Exactly - it being the 2.0TDI it would have the six speed DSG if it is a MK VII. That gearbox doesn't have any lag as such.
 
dejongj said:
Exactly - it being the 2.0TDI it would have the six speed DSG if it is a MK VII. That gearbox doesn't have any lag as such.
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Actually - correction. Don't know why I assume it is the 2.0TDI :oops: It could be a lesser version of the DSG. Sorry.
 
dejongj said:
Actually - correction. Don't know why I assume it is the 2.0TDI :eek:ops: It could be a lesser version of the DSG. Sorry.
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only if it has a small 3 cylinder engine
 
Have no problems with my BMW 330 M Sport. Its like a bat out of hell!!!
 
DorsetDude said:
Mine's a Golf TDi DSG bluemotion in case that helps.
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I have a Golf 1.4 TSi DSG. I know nothing about cars and I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in them other than as a means to get from A to B, but I have to make an exception for the DSG gearbox. It's an amazing bit of kit and it is always, absolutely always, in the right gear. Maybe it just suits my driving style, but it changes gear at exactly the point I would and there is never any lag. If I were experiencing the symptoms you describe, I would think about getting someone to look at it. (But then i admit I know nothing. so take that with a suitably large pinch of salt!)
 
stupar said:
An interesting read which may be in line with what you and or others are experiencing. It seems computers are smart but only if they know what you are attempting to do

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-DSG-Game-and-Win-DSG-Driving-Tips-and-Tricks
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Indeed some good tips there - many of which were discussed in depth on the R forums as well. When skilled and with some mechanical appreciation you can really change gears in milliseconds with your right foot. It is really good. I find it much better than the Mercedes version (or whichever OEM they use).
 
StewartR said:
I have a Golf 1.4 TSi DSG. I know nothing about cars and I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in them other than as a means to get from A to B, but I have to make an exception for the DSG gearbox. It's an amazing bit of kit and it is always, absolutely always, in the right gear. Maybe it just suits my driving style, but it changes gear at exactly the point I would and there is never any lag. If I were experiencing the symptoms you describe, I would think about getting someone to look at it. (But then i admit I know nothing. so take that with a suitably large pinch of salt!)
Click to expand...

Indeed it is amazing kit and I would happily recommend that over manual any day.

Most problems described here are nothing other than simply a need to adapt to the new car or oil change problems due to not following servicing schedule.
 
1.6 Nissan note 2013 new gearbox oil etc. It is probably pilot error
 
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