Attempted murder/vs actual murder

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SFTPhotography

Ranger Smith
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Steve
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To me they are the same thing, in action and intent.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-29242104

8yrs for this is scandalous but its what the law is, but the law IMHO is wrong. Doing this and managing not to kill is the same as actually killing - morally speaking. The intent is there and someone like this shouldn't be free so soon.
 
ST4 said:
To me they are the same thing, in action and intent.
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Apart from the action is completely different: the victim didn't die.

The action (actus reus) for murder is the unlawful killing of a person in the Queen's peace.

The intent (mens rea) is malice aforethought, i.e. intent to kill or cause GBH.

You need both, it's that simple (generally speaking).

ST4 said:
Doing this and managing not to kill is the same as actually killing - morally speaking.
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They are different crimes for a reason - besides, morality and illegality are hugely different things.

I personally think that infidelity is immoral, it doesn't make it a crime. I think that speeding is moral, but that is a crime!

It's not the classification of the crime that's the issue, it's the overly lenient sentencing that has become entrenched in our legal system. The judge would never have been able to impose the maximum sentence even if he wanted to, despite the fact the maximum sentence for attempted murder is life.
 
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ST4 said:
The guy tried to kill someone. The action is excessive force with intent to kill. He needs hung from the gallows
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And if someone had grabbed his hand to stop him before the knife had even touched the victim?

The intent would still be there, so he should still be hung despite no harm having actually been caused?

Where do you draw the line?
 
What if there was intent but not the ability?

(And it's hanged, not hung!).


Steve.
 
Malice aforethought...not afterthought.
 
ST4 said:
Yes. I'd hang him.
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Your views never fail to make me question whether you are a troll. The worrying thing is I think you are being serious - you appear to be living in a very black and white world.

As you've swiftly sorted out a major issue within the judiciary, presumably you have similarly simple ways of solving other problems like ISIS, the financial sector, and Russia/Ukraine?
 
What if there was intent but not the ability?
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So you want an offence of "Thought about Murder"? I'll plead guilty and want 200,000 offences to be taken into consideration m'lud.

On your own, without an ability there's no offence. If you discuss and plan with others then there's conspiring to murder.
 
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Steve Smith said:
What if you attempted to drive at 174 mph but were stopped by a road works? Should you still be banned?!


Steve.
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How do you attempt to drive 174mph. Either you do or you don't - ok maybe you top out at 170 before the road works but its good enough for a ban. You try to kill someone by stabbing them and fail, intent wise its as good as killing them and that person poses as big a risk to society as a murderer.
 
Like many things in the UK, (and of course other EU countries), it is time for a review and update

Government and the Institutions are failing and that is the main reason why change is wanted by many
 
ACW said:
Your views never fail to make me question whether you are a troll. The worrying thing is I think you are being serious - you appear to be living in a very black and white world.

As you've swiftly sorted out a major issue within the judiciary, presumably you have similarly simple ways of solving other problems like ISIS, the financial sector, and Russia/Ukraine?
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He's a serious troll:p
He's already got Scotland sorted, and I don't just mean the police force:LOL:
 
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BillN_33 said:
Like many things in the UK, (and of course other EU countries), it is time for a review and update

Government and the Institutions are failing and that is the main reason why change is wanted by many
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Hear hear!
 
ACW said:
Your views never fail to make me question whether you are a troll. The worrying thing is I think you are being serious - you appear to be living in a very black and white world.

As you've swiftly sorted out a major issue within the judiciary, presumably you have similarly simple ways of solving other problems like ISIS, the financial sector, and Russia/Ukraine?
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Hang them.
 
Hang them.
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You are charged with that
On the 18th Day of September 2014, on Talk photography, you did think about committing murder.
That is contrary to the Thinking About Offences Act 2014 as amended by the Ways and Means Acts, and Breathing Acts.

In answer to the charge, You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned anything you later rely on in court. Anything you do say will be put into writing and given in evidence.
 
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Bobsyeruncle said:
He's a serious troll:p
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TBH I don't think that Steve (@ST4) is a troll.
(He'd be long gone if we, the staff thought that ;) )

As already mentioned he appears to see everything in Black and White.
Its a great principle, to live by, but unfortunately the law and life have several grey areas.

Bobsyeruncle said:
He's already got Scotland sorted, and I don't just mean the police force:LOL:
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I'm glad someone has :D
 
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