Attack on HM's Canadian Forces

Bernie174

Bernie174

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Canadian Soldier shot in Ottawa. Apparently gunman managed to get into the Canadian Parliament.

Comes after another attack on Canadian Forces, and a number of people arrested in the UK for plotting attacks on British Soldiers and Police.

The shape of things to come.......
 
Don't think we know at this stage the gunman's motives or identity unless I've missed something.
 
The attacker has been named by Canadian media Michael Zehaf- Bibeau, 32, who US agencies have been advised is a Canadian convert to Islam.
 
arclight said:
The attacker has been named by Canadian media Michael Zehaf- Bibeau, 32, who US agencies have been advised is a Canadian convert to Islam.
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I think his being a "convert" is irrelivant tbh. His own mosque had apparently long ago requested he stop attending prayers due to his beliefs and behaviour.
Just another nut-job with a gun.
At least he too was shot and killed.
 
Yv said:
That is the problem now though isn't it, single nut job with a gun, or part of bigger plan. Until investigations are complete we won't know but suppositions will be made based on his religious leanings regardless.
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True. Sorry, what I mean is that I believe the trend currently is for people to concentrate of the word Islam, when really the perpetrators themselves are simply ising it as a kind of "freedom fighter" badge themselves.
I don't believe they have any true belief or faith in anything but their own twisted ideas.
 
But that twisted faith is fed by the IS/ISIL type of actions.
I know what you are saying, and I think you're right, but lone wolf with delusions of being a one man terror group or full blown terrorist group the effect is the same, and the cause is as well.
 
viv1969 said:
True. Sorry, what I mean is that I believe the trend currently is for people to concentrate of the word Islam, when really the perpetrators themselves are simply ising it as a kind of "freedom fighter" badge themselves.
I don't believe they have any true belief or faith in anything but their own twisted ideas.
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I'm sure that they do have what is, to them, a true faith. It seems to me that there's no real difference between the mainstream islamic church condemning both the beliefs and actions of extremists who claim to be islamists and the mainstream christian churches condemning the beliefs and actions of extremists who claim to be christian.

At the end of the day, it's real enough to the people who believe in it, and the very nature of religious extremism is that the extremists believe that they are the only people who've got it right. And that lack of tolerance leads to a lack of respect for other people's views, or even lives.
 
I agree, however I don’t believe the cause is Islam itself.
 
ST4 said:
Sadly so I fear this might be the start of things to come if it's to believed looney tunes extremists are on the rise
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I think this is just the start of much bigger more organised attacks on the west and ANY nation who are friends or united with the west.

viv1969 said:
I think his being a "convert" is irrelivant tbh. His own mosque had apparently long ago requested he stop attending prayers due to his beliefs and behaviour.
Just another nut-job with a gun.
At least he too was shot and killed.
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Head in the sand Viv - more to it than meets the eye I am sorry to say

viv1969 said:
True. Sorry, what I mean is that I believe the trend currently is for people to concentrate of the word Islam, when really the perpetrators themselves are simply ising it as a kind of "freedom fighter" badge themselves.
I don't believe they have any true belief or faith in anything but their own twisted ideas.
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Without their "faith mission" they would not go to these length, they are sanctioned by scripture all be it an extreme interpretation.

viv1969 said:
I agree, however I don’t believe the cause is Islam itself.
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Debatable and only time will tell.
 
LASTOLITE said:
I think this is just the start of much bigger more organised attacks on the west and ANY nation who are friends or united with the west.



Head in the sand Viv - more to it than meets the eye I am sorry to say



Without their "faith mission" they would not go to these length, they are sanctioned by scripture all be it an extreme interpretation.



Debatable and only time will tell.
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Point A: I agree.
Point B: Conjecture on your part.
Point C: No, they're not. Read the Qur'an
Point D: Perhaps
 
the trouble with the western so called civilised nations is that we think short term ,we tend to assume that we can fight a war and that a victor emerges and then its all over ,we can shake hands and then call each other friends again .the islamic states however have a different view of things taking the long term view that the war will just simmer under the surface even if it takes a couple of thousand years to come to a head.we cannot in reality defeat it its best left to themselves to sort it out .if they can .

the british and french are the real idiots in this whole scenario due to the carving up of the old turkish ottoman empire after WW1 into countries based on our own needs ,instead of countries based on religious and social needs of the residents .if anyone has seen "lawrence of arabia" and what happened after the arab army took damascus you will grasp the difficulties involved .

we also have allowed europe to become infiltrated by these people .what the answer is i have no idea but i,m glad i have more days behind me than in front as its going to be a frightening future
 
the black fox said:
we also have allowed europe to become infiltrated by these people .what the answer is i have no idea but i,m glad i have more days behind me than in front as its going to be a frightening future
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Muslims?
 
viv1969 said:
Muslims?
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no ruth i,m not racist at all ,the majority of law abiding muslims totally disown these actions ,and that was probably wrong of me to include it in a post ,i really meant the hard line type of radicalisers that used to be allowed to preach hatred on the streets ,and perhaps still are (unless you speak arabic of course) you have no idea of whats being said
 
the black fox said:
no ruth i,m not racist at all ,the majority of law abiding muslims totally disown these actions ,and that was probably wrong of me to include it in a post ,i really meant the hard line type of radicalisers that used to be allowed to preach hatred on the streets ,and perhaps still are (unless you speak arabic of course) you have no idea of whats being said
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Thanks for clarifying. Jeff :thumbs:
 
Point C: No, they're not. Read the Qur'an
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I'm sorry Viv but Bill is right. As he said, its an extreme interpretation of the Qur'an.

Like the Bible, the Qur'an is an old book, translated many times and in many ways. Like the Bible is leaves a lot of latitude on meanings. For example, the Bible says, "Man shall not lie with man". To many Christians this means no homosexuality. Other interpret it in differing ways.

So, it's hardly a surprise if someone who's neurons aren't firing right to start with has it suggested that a passage in a book he believes the way things should be, then goes and shoots a Solider, or anyone else. Like the 2 that killed Pvt Rigby, while we see they are wrong, they genuinely believe what they did was God (or Allah's) will.
 
Bernie174 said:
I'm sorry Viv but Bill is right. As he said, its an extreme interpretation of the Qur'an.

Like the Bible, the Qur'an is an old book, translated many times and in many ways. Like the Bible is leaves a lot of latitude on meanings. For example, the Bible says, "Man shall not lie with man". To many Christians this means no homosexuality. Other interpret it in differing ways.

So, it's hardly a surprise if someone who's neurons aren't firing right to start with has it suggested that a passage in a book he believes the way things should be, then goes and shoots a Solider, or anyone else. Like the 2 that killed Pvt Rigby, while we see they are wrong, they genuinely believe what they did was God (or Allah's) will.
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I would add, that where religious inttruction in modern UK Christian schools (Anglican, C of E, Catholic) teaches that the Old Testament was simply a kind of story, some forms of extremist Islam (Wahhabism, Sallfism) stick to every word of the teaching.
I watched the excellent Panorama - "Inside the Taliban" - where a reporter lived with and reported on the Taliban and their beliefs in Afghanistan today. He questioned them about schools, and why there are no girls being taught there, and if they plan to teach girls in the future. The teacher looked a little nervy (for obvious reasons) and said that there were no plans to teach girls.
Therefore, nothing has changed in Afghanistan, and the worst thing about this is that our aid money is being spent on building and maintaining Madrassas - religious schools, the very places where radical extremism is being taught to the youngest pupils.
The other problem, is that in these schools, hardly any academic subjects are being taught.
Our government encouraged the uprising against Assad in Syria a couple of years ago, lot of pictures showing Hague and Kerry with members of the Free Syrian Army or the "Rebels", and the clueless duo saying that they would provide aid to them. Well, they did provide aid and a lot of it fell into the hands of ISIL, Al Qaeda and other extremist groups, who then went on to slaughter Christians, Shia and Kurds in Syria and Iraq.
The US tried to do deals with the Mujadeen (Taliban) against the Soviets in Afghanistan, and look how that finished.
We have been too soft on the "hate preachers" and extremist Imams in the UK, and somehow we have to get the upper hand, or else we could find ourselves facing terrorist attacks similar to the ones on the Kenyan shopping mall.
 
Yes,I saw Panorama as well. Interesting stuff.

Theres 2 issues here though. Home and abroad. Solving either wont take anyway the the other. Eventually, some people will wake up to the fact that Islamic Fundamentalism is going to spread, will it be ISIS/ISIL/IS that start that spread off? It might well be if they get their way and manage to take over Syria and Iraq, thus giving them a fixed base. Thats why we are poking around in it.

The other 'Front' for Fundamentalism is to use the Muslim populations in the Western Democracies, as a bit of a warm up. So lets say we make ISIS go away, would it stop the growing terrorism threat to the West? No. If, and this is almost impossible to do, we stop the rot in the Muslim Community, would it make ISIS go away? No.

Either way we are stuck with this problem for a very long time. It'll either be as a full scale war or a slow terrorist campaign, but worse still and most likely, both.
 
Bernie174 said:
I'm sorry Viv but Bill is right. As he said, its an extreme interpretation of the Qur'an.

Like the Bible, the Qur'an is an old book, translated many times and in many ways. Like the Bible is leaves a lot of latitude on meanings. For example, the Bible says, "Man shall not lie with man". To many Christians this means no homosexuality. Other interpret it in differing ways.

So, it's hardly a surprise if someone who's neurons aren't firing right to start with has it suggested that a passage in a book he believes the way things should be, then goes and shoots a Solider, or anyone else. Like the 2 that killed Pvt Rigby, while we see they are wrong, they genuinely believe what they did was God (or Allah's) will.
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Precisely.
What I'm trying to say is that it's the individual's interpretation of the scriptures, not the fault of the religion itself.
Millions of Muslims live the peaceful existence which is widely (but yes, not always) taught nowadays.
These people need hunting and eradicating not because of their religion, but because they're murderous hateful bastards.
 
This is very cute, especially the soldiers' reaction.


Edit....yes it's old but it's still sweet a sweet thing from both angles.
 
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