Atom 360 vs Safari 2

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mike weeks

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Whilst quite different beasts in size they are both lighting systems that have separate heads and battery packs.

I can see that whereas I can use my existing Bowens fit modifiers on the Safari I would need to purchase modifiers for the Atoms

Nice feature is that both can be controlled through the same system so they can be mixed and matched and that is what the questions are trying to get to so that the mixture could be thought through

Sometimes though all I need is standard reflector so I thought let me do a quick power comparison but the Atom is in GN and the Safari in Watt/s so the question is with the standard reflector at measuring the light intensity at say 10 feet from the head how many stops of light difference are there?

Second question again using our 10 feet distance, ISO 100 and requiring f8 how many flashes would I get out of each system?

Mike
 
I'll answer the bits I can, you can use a speedlight- s fit adaptor with the atom, 600Ws is an approx Gn of 100 in metres according to a back of fag packet calculation.

The Safari is supposed to be good for about 600 full power flashes, I'm guessing about 1/4 power for your question (depends on modifier too of course), which gives an answer of 'shed loads'.
 
Mike,

Here are the figures, but with the usual caveat for the sake of transparency...

Test results are dependent on various factors, one of the main ones being environment. I've literally just done these tests to answer your questions accurately, and my answers are 100% true and accurate for my test conditions but other test conditions will vary the results and will usually produce much higher figures.
My tests were carried out in the Lencarta warehouse, which is a bit on the big side and there is absolutely no inflation of results caused by reflections from white walls, white ceilings etc - the ceiling is high and not white and the nearest white wall was a very long way away:) So, used indoors in a smaller place, the figures would be much higher.

Safari 2, full power, standard reflector, distance 10', ISO100 = f/8 d8
Atom 360, as above, with Atom standard reflector = f/16 d1

So, the Atom is producing more light with less watt-seconds?
No.
I'm really not pimping here but we've just taken delivery of a brand new S-fit adapter that's perfect for the Atom. It isn't on the website yet.
So, I fitted the Atom 360 to it, removed the Atom reflector, which is very efficient, and replaced it with the Safari reflector which spreads the light over a larger area.
The reading was then f/5.6 d6, which is exactly what it should be.

Second question:
Under my test conditions, and using the Safari reflector on whichever unit, you can't quite get f/8 at 10' but, as explained above, I'm sure you will. Assuming that you do, it's as per the website figures, 450 with the Atom 360 and 400 with the Safari 2
 
Garry,

reason for asking was if used in this manner then they would be used outdoors so your figures are more realistic. 450 vs 400 is little difference for me

Obviously there is a large weight difference

What it does mean though is that it is better to buy the one for the role that it is needed for as battery life / exposure they are well matched as in where I want decent sized studio accessories then Safari 2 and where bare bulb is needed then the 360 is perfect.

Thanks for carrying out the testing.

Mike
 
Mike,

Understood. The obvious advantages of the Safari 2 are that it has S-fit without an adapter, is simpler and therefore faster to use, and has a modelling lamp, for where one is needed, plus the higher power. But there's another advantage too, the recycling is much faster.

The Atom advantage is of course portability.

We get a lot of customers who agonise over which to buy, and this is understandable because these products do cross over to some extent - but most of these customers end up buying both!
 
Garry, could you do the comparison using a double-diffuser softbox on each unit? That would give a very good idea of exactly how much total light is output, as all the light would be collected the same, then reflected and deflected and properly scrambled around the interior, and output the same. Readings taken at closer distance, say 1.0m, would be virtually unaffected by the environment.
 
Richard, fair point and I'll do that, but not today as I'm going home now - have to take some notice of my doctor:)

I'll update when I can
 
mike weeks said:
Richard,

as my use would be in the middle of a field and knowing what I need where means that the answer would be a mixture as each has it's own advantages.

Mike
Click to expand...

Sure, I'm asking a slightly different question - the total amount of light you've got to play with vs what you'll get using a particular modifier in a certain situation.

Personally, I have no time for guide numbers as they're so massively variable, impossible to compare accurately between brands, and mostly plain misleading. For example (and I know you know this Mike ;)) if you measure a flash head with a typical softbox and get a guide number of say 100, if you then fit a high intensity modifier like this 'tulip' shape parabolic jobbie http://www.lencarta.com/studio-lighting-shopfront/light-shapers/high-intensity-reflector then the guide number magically increases to about 280 - some 2.5 stops brighter.
 
Mike
Out of curiosity, can I ask why you're thinking of going for the Safari after testing the iLux?

I ummed and aahed about the iLux but plumped for the Lencarta as a gut feeling thing, I just wondered what you thought having used them.
 
HoppyUK said:
Sure, I'm asking a slightly different question - the total amount of light you've got to play with vs what you'll get using a particular modifier in a certain situation.

Personally, I have no time for guide numbers as they're so massively variable, impossible to compare accurately between brands, and mostly plain misleading. For example (and I know you know this Mike ;))
Click to expand...

Next you will be suggesting people do this deliberately to sell more :)
 
HoppyUK said:
Sure, I'm asking a slightly different question - the total amount of light you've got to play with vs what you'll get using a particular modifier in a certain situation.

Personally, I have no time for guide numbers as they're so massively variable, impossible to compare accurately between brands, and mostly plain misleading. For example (and I know you know this Mike ;)) if you measure a flash head with a typical softbox and get a guide number of say 100, if you then fit a high intensity modifier like this 'tulip' shape parabolic jobbie http://www.lencarta.com/studio-lighting-shopfront/light-shapers/high-intensity-reflector then the guide number magically increases to about 280 - some 2.5 stops brighter.
Click to expand...
You're right of course.
But what a lot of people fail to understand is that specialist tools such as our high intensity reflector (and Elinchrom do one that's very similar) are designed for a specific purpose, and that purpose isn't to inflate the guide number.

In my experience, the biggest single problem with guide numbers is that many of them are false, full stop. And that goes for colour temperature variation figures too. (Typically) Chinese manufacturers sometimes just copy meaningless data from their competitor's website and publish it as fact. Having been to many Chinese manufacturers, I can tell you that most of them don't even understand the figures and have no way of actually testing them anyway...
I went to one factory (where a flash head that is now imported into this country is made) after finding out that they had this wonderful new flash head, with incredibly accurate colour temperature consistency, but when I tested it with a colour temperature meter (which they had never seen before) the variation was staggeringly bad, some 1200% worse than they stated, and we walked away. The Company that now imports the lights makes the same incorrect statement about colour temperature as the factory, and their 'impartial tester' backs it up.

The benchmark test for guide number testing has always been ISO 100, 3m, standard reflector.
BUT quite a lot of years ago, Elinchrom started testing at 1m, this may or may not have been for their own reasons but it makes sense because that working distance pretty well takes the testing environment out of the equasion.
And standard reflectors vary enormously - as per my own quick tests above
Safari 2, full power, standard reflector, distance 10', ISO100 = f/8 d8
Atom 360, as above, with Atom standard reflector = f/16 d1
Click to expand...
The Atom reflector is just more efficient than the Safari one - but is far less efficient than some others, notably the Bowens which, for some reason, is almost like a mirror by comparison.

The Atom and Safari are principally designed for use outdoors, competing against high levels of ambient light, and delivered power is very important in this situation. But, mostly, actual power is far less important than most people think it is - what matters in the studio is flash energy consistency and colour temperature consistency.
 
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