Atom 360 flash

wooster said:
Just to be clear. Is it wrong that the Wavesync trigger will work with HSS if I buy the Y cable thing then? I'm shooting Canon 5Dk3 can someone just confirm what trigger I need to buy to make this work? Is it the Yongnuo 622n or the Godox Cells II trigger?

If I buy the Godox Cells II like this one here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Godox-Cel...raphy_DigitalCamAccess_RL&hash=item3a8dad030b

would it work with my existing wave sync receiver which is attached to the Atom via USB or do I need to buy two cells II transceivers?

If I need both, I'm a bit miffed having spent the best part of £60 on lencarta's trigger and now having to spend the same amount again to get something that works fully with the flash. I see the one I already have on eBay now for £22.65 to add to the pain

Thanks
Click to expand...
What the Wavesync will do is to give you full remote control, the others won't
Either the 622C (unless you upgrade to a Nikon, don't get the 622N) :) or the Cells 2 will do is to allow you to use faster shutter speeds
Plug the Wavesync into the pass through hotshoe of either the 622C or the Cells 2 and you get the best of both worlds
IMO the 622 is better, also the hotshoe is in a much better place
 
Thanks Mike. If I can just fork out another £32 or so for the Godox transceiver and use it with my Wavesync receiver then I will feel a bit better.

Garry. Does this mean that I should keep my Wavesync as is and simply buy a one Godox Cells II transceiver, plug it into the the wave sync on my camera, and my existing waveysnc receiver on the flash will allow HSS? ( assuming I have the Y cord mentioned above )

I'm not sure how it will connect. I only have one hotshoe on my camera of course and I don't know where the existing wave sync would fit :(
 
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Ah I see. That makes sense. Thanks for this and sorry for being dense. Its past my bedtime.

So I will buy the Godox Cells II, use it with the existing Wavesync transmitter and receiver and stick on a Y cable and all will be well?
 
Garry Edwards said:
What the Wavesync will do is to give you full remote control, the others won't
Either the 622C (unless you upgrade to a Nikon, don't get the 622N) :) or the Cells 2 will do is to allow you to use faster shutter speeds
Plug the Wavesync into the pass through hotshoe of either the 622C or the Cells 2 and you get the best of both worlds
IMO the 622 is better, also the hotshoe is in a much better place
Click to expand...


Garry, you really do need to be more careful about your wording. The below could be viewed as misleading to say the least:


Garry Edwards said:
Yes, the Atom 360 can do HSS and the Wavesync trigger/remote does work with it. The Atom 180 will do HSS 'as is' but the Atom 360 needs the power doubler to make it work - the power doubler takes power from both terminals of Powerpack, halving the recycling time.

If what you want to do is to use Tail End Synch (which is completely different to HSS) then you do need a specialised radio trigger. Cheetah in the US is a re-seller, you can get the Cells 11 (which is made by Godox) from a lot of sellers. IMO though it's old technology and not particuarly good value for money, the Yongnuo YN-622C may be a better bet. The Wavesync transmitter simply plugs into the hotshoe pass-through on the YN-622.

Please see this thread, which explains the principles
Click to expand...

Your clear implication is that the Wavesync will pass HSS instructions.
 
DemiLion said:
Garry, you really do need to be more careful about your wording. The below could be viewed as misleading to say the least:




Your clear implication is that the Wavesync will pass HSS instructions.
Click to expand...
It does do HSS - the OP is asking about Hypersync/tail end sync, not high speed sync - I think
mike weeks said:
When you have the new trigger you place that on the camera, you use the existing one off camera (in your hand) for adjusting power
Click to expand...
Or just plug it in to the pass-through hotshoe, whichever you find easier.
 
No I was definitely asking about High Speed Sync.

Sorry I'm really confused. I don't know what you mean by saying that it does do HSS. Everyone else is saying it doesn't and Stuart's experience seems to confirm this. Clearly we're taking at cross purposes. Can you expand?
 
Garry Edwards said:
It does do HSS - the OP is asking about Hypersync/tail end sync, not high speed sync - I think
Click to expand...

No Garry, Wooster is talking about HSS and the FT-16Tx is not capable of passing HSS instructions to the FT-16(s)RX.

Unless you have manage to massively re-engineer your triggers from the native Godox ones.
 
wooster said:
No I was definitely asking about High Speed Sync.

Sorry I'm really confused. I don't know what you mean by saying that it does do HSS. Everyone else is saying it doesn't and Stuart's experience seems to confirm this. Clearly we're taking at cross purposes. Can you expand?
Click to expand...
Sorry about the confusion, my fault.
I'm allowed out to play on Saturdays, now back and I've read the thread properly...
The Atom 180 will do HSS as is, with the Wavesync
The Atom 360 will do it with the power doubler, you won't need anything else
DemiLion said:
No Garry, Wooster is talking about HSS and the FT-16Tx is not capable of passing HSS instructions to the FT-16(s)RX.

Unless you have manage to massively re-engineer your triggers from the native Godox ones.
Click to expand...
Yes it will Mark, what it won't do is tail end sync
 
Im still not getting HHS , based on this thread I bought the Y cable.

so I have the cable the 360 head the trigger that came with it , im setting the head to HHS and when I take a shot over 200th I get the shutter in my shots
 
No Garry, it doesn't.

Think about it. How could it possibly transmit HSS data?

The 'Wavesync' (or Godox FT-16 Tx to give it its proper name) is a one size fits all trigger. It'll work with any system, Canon, Nikon, Pentax et al.

How in God's name can it then transmit HSS data?


For what it's worth I've just tested a Lencarta and a Cells II trigger on my Genesis GF400.

Your trigger does not support HSS.

I suggest that you go back and do some testing tomorrow.
 
DemiLion said:
No Garry, it doesn't.

Think about it. How could it possibly transmit HSS data?

The 'Wavesync' (or Godox FT-16 Tx to give it its proper name) is a one size fits all trigger. It'll work with any system, Canon, Nikon, Pentax et al.

How in God's name can it then transmit HSS data?


For what it's worth I've just tested a Lencarta and a Cells II trigger on my Genesis GF400.

Your trigger does not support HSS.

I suggest that you go back and do some testing tomorrow.
Click to expand...
No, it doesn't need to transmit any data, that's not how it works at all.
I won't be testing it tomorrow, but I will try to find time to re-test it on Monday, with a Nikon - I don't have any other makes.

I carried out pretty comprehensive tests when it first came out, so I know that it works. I can't remember off the top of my head how to set HSS on the Atom, but will work it out easily enough.
Michael Sewell also tested it comprehensively, it was he who told me how to do it.
 
Garry Edwards said:
No, it doesn't need to transmit any data, that's not how it works at all.
I won't be testing it tomorrow, but I will try to find time to re-test it on Monday, with a Nikon - I don't have any other makes.

I carried out pretty comprehensive tests when it first came out, so I know that it works. I can't remember off the top of my head how to set HSS on the Atom, but will work it out easily enough.
Michael Sewell also tested it comprehensively, it was he who told me how to do it.
Click to expand...


You press the Mode and Set button simultaneously.

I'm amazed that your triggers can send an HSS signal.
Every other blog, review and even Godox's own site states that the FT-16 will not send an HSS signal.

As for not transmitting any camera data, how else does the trigger know that it's in HSS mode?
That's why you need system specific triggers, because Canon & Nikon use different pin patterns.

The flash unit isn't the 'problem'. The trigger is.
 
@Garry Edwards having spent the last couple of days doing tests that is how it works. You press the MODE and SET buttons simultaneously on the 360 to set it to HSS and then it sits there waiting for an HSS signal. I have just put the FT-16 transmitter on top of a D800 and placed the 360 in that mode and guess what, it did not work. When I use the 622N-TX on the camera it recognises that the camera shutter is set higher than the FP setting and then sends the HSS signal - i.e. the trigger needs to know to send an HSS signal

Mike
 
DemiLion said:
You press the Mode and Set button simultaneously.

I'm amazed that your triggers can send an HSS signal.
Every other blog, review and even Godox's own site states that the FT-16 will not send an HSS signal.

As for not transmitting any camera data, how else does the trigger know that it's in HSS mode?
That's why you need system specific triggers, because Canon & Nikon use different pin patterns.

The flash unit isn't the 'problem'. The trigger is.
Click to expand...
mike weeks said:
@Garry Edwards having spent the last couple of days doing tests that is how it works. You press the MODE and SET buttons simultaneously on the 360 to set it to HSS and then it sits there waiting for an HSS signal. I have just put the FT-16 transmitter on top of a D800 and placed the 360 in that mode and guess what, it did not work. When I use the 622N-TX on the camera it recognises that the camera shutter is set higher than the FP setting and then sends the HSS signal - i.e. the trigger needs to know to send an HSS signal

Mike
Click to expand...
I've just tested it and it works perfectly.

Right now I'm busy (as always) but I hope later on today to do some more comprehensive tests, which I will post here
 
Garry Edwards said:
I've just tested it and it works perfectly.

Right now I'm busy (as always) but I hope later on today to do some more comprehensive tests, which I will post here
Click to expand...

Form the pdf at http://www.lencarta.com/Atom360.pdf

7. Hi-Speed Sync Triggering
To enter mode, press both Mode Selection Button (18) and Set Button (19).
Press Mode Selection Button (18) again to exit mode.
In hi-speed sync triggering mode, you can use a hi-speed sync trigger to have
your flash unit synchronize with all shutter speeds of
cameras(max. 1/8000 second, up to your camera). This is
convenient when you want to use aperture- priority for fill-flash
portraits.
Note:
Hi-speed sync triggering mode is effective only when the
flash unit is used together with hi-speed sync trigger, e.g.,
Godox Cells II transceiver.
Hi-speed sync triggering mode is not available when the flash unit is mounted
onto the camera hotshoe.

That pretty much confirms to me that the FT-16 (Wavesync) transmitter will not trigger the pulsed High Speed Sync mode and as Cells II is only available in Canon fit, this can only be achieved with a 3rd party trigger system on Nikon cameras, unless of course you can demonstrate otherwise.

Mike
 
Sorry to hijack the thread but I've a question with regards to the triggers. I currently use YN622C receivers and a YN622 CTX to control them, I find it easier to adjust the settings without having to go through all the Canon menus every time. My question I know you can use the YN622C to trigger the Atom 360, but can you use the YN622CTX to adjust the settings or do you have to use the Wavesynch
 
ChrisHeathcote said:
Sorry to hijack the thread but I've a question with regards to the triggers. I currently use YN622C receivers and a YN622 CTX to control them, I find it easier to adjust the settings without having to go through all the Canon menus every time. My question I know you can use the YN622C to trigger the Atom 360, but can you use the YN622CTX to adjust the settings or do you have to use the Wavesynch
Click to expand...

You have to use the wavesync as the Atom foot only has 1 pin (they are not dedicated). There is talk and some expected to see TTL versions of the Atom lights at Photokina but they did not appear, when they do you should be able to control from other triggers.

Mike
 
Hmmm. Looking at all the information I can glean and the experience of other users, it seems you're the only person able to get it working, Garry. Are you able to post details of your results?

Otherwise it looks like the Cells II is the way to go.

Stuart, I wonder if you have had any resolution to your HSS issues that would help.
 
I think some may be confusing the technology and the differences between High Speed Sync (pulsed flashing to illuminate the sensor) and HyperSync (single flashing with a slow burn tail to illuminate the sensor).

Elvis did a good explanation with graphics when he reviewed the Odin:

http://flashhavoc.com/phottix-odin-ods-over-drive-sync/
 
Kris said:
I think some may be confusing the technology and the differences between High Speed Sync (pulsed flashing to illuminate the sensor) and HyperSync (single flashing with a slow burn tail to illuminate the sensor).

Elvis did a good explanation with graphics when he reviewed the Odin:

http://flashhavoc.com/phottix-odin-ods-over-drive-sync/
Click to expand...

No, we understand it perfectly - to be accurate Canon call it High Speed Saync and Nikon call it Auto FP High Speed Sync often abbreviated to FP Sync - the Atom is capable of doing this as long as it is triggered by a compatible triggering system. The Odin over drive sync is not HSS but instead long tail sync flash or as PocketWizard calls it Hypersync and Yongnuo call it supersync, commlite/Ojecoco call it HS Flash Mode
 
Kris said:
I think some may be confusing the technology and the differences between High Speed Sync (pulsed flashing to illuminate the sensor) and HyperSync (single flashing with a slow burn tail to illuminate the sensor).
Click to expand...


I'm not, nor is Mike and I'm pretty sure that Garry isn't either.
 
I haven't got an Atom, and I knew what they meant too
 
I've got this wrong, my apologies.

I did a quick and dirty test when sitting in the office on Monday, didn't have time to test it under studio conditions and it appeared to work fine.
I've now tested it under studio conditions (total blackout) and find that it doesn't work at all - what I was getting in the office was the effect of ambient light, and this produced the results I saw.
Since then I've gone back to the original instructions, produced by Godox in Mandarin and had them re-translated into English, and it is now clear that when the instructions are translated properly the 360 does not have the ability to produce multiple low powered flash that emulate a continuous light - what it does have is the ability to produce a series of more widely spaced pulses of light for stroboscopic effect, e.g. for photographing dance movement.

My fault entirely - I think that I test too many products and sometimes take on more work than I can cope with :oops: :$
 
I appreciate you taking the time to test again Garry, and thanks for the update.

I'm still slightly puzzled as to why some people are getting HSS/FP sync with the 360 though. Do you meant the instructions are for the Wavesync trigger with the 360 and that it will work with the Cells II?
 
wooster said:
I appreciate you taking the time to test again Garry, and thanks for the update.

I'm still slightly puzzled as to why some people are getting HSS/FP sync with the 360 though. Do you meant the instructions are for the Wavesync trigger with the 360 and that it will work with the Cells II?
Click to expand...
You can get hypersync/tail end sync, no problem - all that this requires is a flash unit that has a sufficiently long flash duration that will continue long enough for the camera shutter to complete its cycle, and a radio trigger (such as the Cells 2) that will time the flash correctly.

Pretty much all conventional-technology studio flash heads can do this, and hotshoe flashes (which the Atom basically is) and other IGBT-technology flash heads can do it too, when at full power or something close to it. If you reduce the power setting too far, the flash duration becomes too short for tail end sync to work.

It's all a bit vague when it comes to actual figures, because not all cameras are equal, and the length of flash duration needed is dependent on the camera (not on the flash) but basically the cameras that have a high native sync speed, say 1/250th, can cope with a slightly shorter flash duration than cameras that have a slower sync speed.

I think that the real problem/misunderstanding here is because some people seem to think that HSS and tail end sync are the same thing, just as some think that high key and white background, or low key and black background, are the same thing.
 
Garry Edwards said:
I've got this wrong, my apologies.

I did a quick and dirty test when sitting in the office on Monday, didn't have time to test it under studio conditions and it appeared to work fine.
I've now tested it under studio conditions (total blackout) and find that it doesn't work at all - what I was getting in the office was the effect of ambient light, and this produced the results I saw.
Since then I've gone back to the original instructions, produced by Godox in Mandarin and had them re-translated into English, and it is now clear that when the instructions are translated properly the 360 does not have the ability to produce multiple low powered flash that emulate a continuous light - what it does have is the ability to produce a series of more widely spaced pulses of light for stroboscopic effect, e.g. for photographing dance movement.

My fault entirely - I think that I test too many products and sometimes take on more work than I can cope with :oops: :$
Click to expand...


Cheers mate - I wasn't riding you just concerned that you were handing out the wrong info.

Are you 100% positive that it's hypersync and not HSS? The results look like HSS to me.

Edit - the reason I say that is that the unit wouldn't require a separate 'HSS' mode if the system was using hypersync!
 
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Don't know about you guys, but this looks clear as mud. And these test images from Flash Havoc throw another spoke in the wheels - scroll down quite a way to the section headed High Speed Sync http://flashhavoc.com/godox-witstro-ad180-ad360-review/ Those images are typical of tail-hypersync, not proper pulsed-HSS.

So what actually happens in the so-called HSS mode?
 
I suggest that people look at this
DSC_3912.JPG


- shot long tail sync (YN622 timing adjusted adjusted) and

DSC_3913.JPG

- shot using the 360 HSS mode, notice the banding that shows the pulse rate

Yes these are full size but then you can see it warts and all shot on D800 at 1/8000

Mike
 
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I agree it's a tad confusing but I don't get what you mean about the flashhovoc images not looking like HSS. Can you explain a bit more please?
 
So Mike at the end of all this lengthy debate, am I right in assuming you get HSS/FP to work properly using the appropriate trigger and you're happy with the results?

I'm likely to buy the Y cord thing and a Cells II for my canon if so

Thanks
 
Wooster I doubt that I need to go above 1/4000 and as the banding disappears at 1/5000 I can use the HS mode of the 360 or I can use the adjustment of the YN622N-TX and accept the slightly brighter bottom which is typical of hypersync.

I have not tested with other cameras and the banding my be camera specific i.e. lesser or greater.

I have not tested with Cells II as I am a Nikon not a Canon shooter

Yongnuo 622 is a great addition to any kit bag and I will be using them and happy with the reults.

Mike
 
That 'appears' to look like very poorly implemented pulsed-HSS, with individual pulses visible and brightness not held at a constant level. If that's as good as it gets, not very satisfactory IMHO. Maybe Garry could do an oscilloscope trace of that - it would be interesting to see, if nothing else.

wooster said:
I agree it's a tad confusing but I don't get what you mean about the flashhovoc images not looking like HSS. Can you explain a bit more please?
Click to expand...

Wooster, an unavoidable characteristic of tail-hypersync is the exposure fades, getting darker from bottom to top of the frame - as the focal plane shutter tracks the fading brightness of the flash. This is why a long flash duration works best for tail-hypersync, as the brightness fades more gradually.
 
wooster said:
So Mike at the end of all this lengthy debate, am I right in assuming you get HSS/FP to work properly using the appropriate trigger and you're happy with the results?

I'm likely to buy the Y cord thing and a Cells II for my canon if so

Thanks
Click to expand...

To Garry, how does the Y-adapter make a difference to this?
 
HoppyUK said:
That 'appears' to look like very poorly implemented pulsed-HSS, with individual pulses visible and brightness not held at a constant level. If that's as good as it gets, not very satisfactory IMHO.
Click to expand...

Hoppy I think there are 2 factors, one the actual flash tube may not lend itself to the extremely high flash rate that HSS should have, in fact the long flash duration that is needed for hypersync is a giveaway that this will happen

The second issue could be the high sensor resolution of the D800 and only testing with other cameras could prove that.

Mike
 
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