Arthritis and Copper!

I used to get mild/minor joint pain but its got much better since I started drinking green tea
not sure if its coincidence but it works for me:):)
 
Al1944 said:
I suffer with aches and pains in my neck and shoulders - and I avoid going to the doctor like the plague!

I wondered if anyone has had any experience of copper bracelets etc. I have come across a copper curb chain which I thought I might try, but not sure whether the copper/arthritis claims are a lot of hooha?

Thanks,
Al
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A quick update. After giving this further thought (and prompted by someone who sent me a PM) I went to see the doctor today! He reckons I have Spondilitis - no treatment or cure. Painkillers if required and exercises to help ease the stiffness.
Got a leaflet for Physio Direct!

But will still get a bit of copper:)

Al
 
The23rdman said:
but it's still an inflammatory condition
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Please cite your evidence for this claim

The key reasons for that will be environmental toxins and diet causing problems.
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Please cite your evidence for this claim

The paleo diet or GAPS diet address these issues better than anything else I've encountered in over a decade of research and experience because they are based on our body's biochemistry rather than fads.
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Please cite your evidence for this claim

I'm happy to provide info and suggestions if you're open.
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Yes please! Preferably referenced and peer-reviewed studies published in proper journals by professionals.

OP: See your Doctor. A real one. Not some snake-oil charlatan.
 
I have Ankylosing Spondilitis, try mentioning Enbrel http://www.enbrel.com/ankylosing-spondylitis/your-condition.jspx to your Doctor or specialist at the hospital. It may not help or be licensed for just Spondilitis. The Enbrel injection has changed my life. It is that good for me. Hope that is some help. If you need any more information just ask I will try and help.
 
Thanks Lee. I'll see how things prpgress for a while before resorting to that. Have just tried a few exercises and I must admit I feel a hundred times worse! Obviously will take a bit of time for body to adjust.

Thanks again,
Al
 
jon ryan said:
Please cite your evidence for this claim



Please cite your evidence for this claim



Please cite your evidence for this claim



Yes please! Preferably referenced and peer-reviewed studies published in proper journals by professionals.

OP: See your Doctor. A real one. Not some snake-oil charlatan.
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Jon, I'm not entirely sure I want to enter a debate with someone so pseudo-skeptic. If you really wish to read into the science you can look up Rob Wolfe or Loren Cordain and decide for yourself. To jump and call a diet based on our biochemistry and genetic history and call it snake oil (when nobody is selling anything) seems to be a typical pseudo-skeptic response and one I don't feel worthy of airtime.
 
The23rdman said:
Jon, I'm not entirely sure I want to enter a debate with someone so pseudo-skeptic. If you really wish to read into the science you can look up Rob Wolfe or Loren Cordain and decide for yourself. To jump and call a diet based on our biochemistry and genetic history and call it snake oil (when nobody is selling anything) seems to be a typical pseudo-skeptic response and one I don't feel worthy of airtime.
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Nothing whatsoever 'pseudo' about my scepticism I can assure you. I have read up on this, ta. And it's just another in a long list of unproven, fad diets that could be very dangerous, especailly for people with medical disorders. No-one shout ever contemplate making major change in their diet without getting real medical advice.

And your belief that 'no-one is selling anything' is touchingly naive.

Wiki on Paleolithic diet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet

The diet claims that earlier humans ate little in the way of grains, a claim long since debunked

OP: See your doctor. A real one.
 
Wikipedia? Really? *sigh*

Actually, the diet, if researched properly, isn't about what our ancestors ate, but about what we are biochemically better off eating. I'd like to see some real evidence that eating this way is bad for your health.
 
The23rdman said:
Wikipedia? Really? *sigh*
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What part of the wiki article is wrong? And there are plenty of links there to real research and proper science.

Actually, the diet, if researched properly, isn't about what our ancestors ate, but about what we are biochemically better off eating.
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Please cite your evidence for this claim

I'd like to see some real evidence that eating this way is bad for your health.
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See my comment above. No-one should undertake a major change in diet without proper medical consultation.

It could kill you.
 
You, my man, are a scaremongerer. Since when did a diet of lean meats (preferably grass fed for the fatty acid profile), fish, seeds and nuts and ample fresh fruit and veggies kill people? You're talking utter and complete tosh. The OP along with anyone else is free to do their own research instead of listening to your *****.

Hold on. Are you a vegetarian?
 
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The23rdman said:
You, my man, are a scaremongerer. Since when did a diet of lean meats (preferably grass fed for the fatty acid profile), fish, seeds and nuts and ample fresh fruit and veggies kill people? You're talking utter and complete tosh. The OP along with anyone else is free to do their own research instead of listening to your *****.

Hold on. Are you a vegetarian?
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Type 1 hypersensitivity to nuts causes many deaths each year. Adverse reactions to fish and sea food are relatively common. An so forth. This is utter tosh, is it?

No, I am not a vegetarian (why do you feel this is germane?) although, for instance, some medal winning athletes are: Lizzie Armitstead won silver in the cycling road race a couple of weeks back, and Ed Moses won 122 consecutive races including two Olympic golds. Carl Lewis won nine golds and is a vegan.

Correct diet is vital. Advocating a major change in diet from a position of total ignorance to a person who has some sort of indeterminate medical condition is beyond the event horizon of irresponsible stupidity.
 
Jon, I'm pretty sure anyone with a nut allergy or fish allergy would know it and avoid such foods. That is a quite ridiculous argument.

Beyond the event horizon of stupidity? What a self-righteous .... you are. I assumed that most people would investigate before jumping straight in, or are you also suggesting the OP is beyond that event horizon.

I'm done with you.
 
The23rdman said:
Jon, I'm pretty sure anyone with a nut allergy or fish allergy would know it and avoid such foods.
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Yup, they turn blue and die. That's a pretty good way of finding out that your new faddy diet may not be quite as good as the snake oil salesman claimed.


Beyond the event horizon of stupidity? What a self-righteous .... you are. I assumed that most people would investigate before jumping straight in, or are you also suggesting the OP is beyond that event horizon.

I'm done with you.
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At last! You've said something sensible. Well done. Yes, do check (the facts, not the advertising claims or unsubstantiated claims from people on forum sites) before starting any new diet. With a doctor. A real one. (But 'I assumed' isn't so clever. As in: 'I assumed the diet was safe'. Won't play very well in a coroner's court).
 
I'm glad you have such faith in GP's. I hope you never find yourself in a position where they just shrug their shoulders at you or offer nothing but glib advice that doesn't actually help. Meanwhile in the world of open-minded investigation the facts are out there for anyone to investigate.
 
The23rdman said:
I'm glad you have such faith in GP's. I hope you never find yourself in a position where they just shrug their shoulders at you or offer nothing but glib advice that doesn't actually help. Meanwhile in the world of open-minded investigation the facts are out there for anyone to investigate.
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I have far more faith in a GP who has undergone many years of vigorous training in medical and biochemical fields that I have in some glib salesman on a make-me-rich website aimed at the gullible.
 
jon ryan said:
I have far more faith in a GP who has undergone many years of vigorous training in medical and biochemical fields that I have in some glib salesman on a make-me-rich website aimed at the gullible.
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Bless you and your unsubstantiated attacks.
 
jon ryan said:
I have far more faith in a GP who has undergone many years of vigorous training in medical and biochemical fields that I have in some glib salesman on a make-me-rich website aimed at the gullible.
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the sort of GP who has 30+ years experience and then tells a 26 year old male, namely my OH, that he couldnt possibly have rheumatoid arthritis because, and I quote "you're too young". ?? that sort of doctor?
 
panther_87k said:
the sort of GP who has 30+ years experience and then tells a 26 year old male, namely my OH, that he couldnt possibly have rheumatoid arthritis because, and I quote "you're too young". ?? that sort of doctor?
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Nope. Any doctor demonstrating that level of ignorance and incompetence should be reported to the GMC. Have you done this?
 
jon ryan said:
Nope. Any doctor demonstrating that level of ignorance and incompetence should be reported to the GMC. Have you done this?
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By that stage the damage may already have been done.
 
jon ryan said:
Nope. Any doctor demonstrating that level of ignorance and incompetence should be reported to the GMC. Have you done this?
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I'm afraid that counts for every single incompetent doctor I've seen in a decade and the three who've had my wife in tears because they wouldn't listen to her when she tried to explain how her symptoms from hypermobility syndrome affect her.
 
jon ryan said:
In which case it's pretty important to get the complaint in fast before any other patients suffer.
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I agree, but sometimes the facts don't come to light for, literally, years. As regards the original post, copper works for me, don't care if it's psychosomatic or not. I don't know if you know this, but medical science doesn't know why contraceptive coil works?
 
malo50 said:
I agree, but sometimes the facts don't come to light for, literally, years. As regards the original post, copper works for me, don't care if it's psychosomatic or not. I don't know if you know this, but medical science doesn't know why contraceptive coil works?
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Umm, isn't it that the device causes changes the consistency of cervical mucous making it inhospitable to sperm? And don't modern ones contain copper - which works as a spermicide?
 
jon ryan said:
Umm, isn't it that the device causes changes the consistency of cervical mucous making it inhospitable to sperm? And don't modern ones contain copper - which works as a spermicide?
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If I'm wrong I apologise, but the point remains the same. Well Googled.
 
I seem to remember this being covered in either sex education or biology lessons in school, back in the 70s...
 
jon ryan said:
I seem to remember this being covered in either sex education or biology lessons in school, back in the 70s...
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I've apologized already.
 
jon ryan said:
Umm, isn't it that the device causes changes the consistency of cervical mucous making it inhospitable to sperm? And don't modern ones contain copper - which works as a spermicide?
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ok so how does copper do that?
 
Lynton said:
at least it's not one of those magnetic bands tht people at craft fairs try to sell, claiming it improves blood flow due to iron in the blood..

I love to get all scientific with them...:love::love:
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when I worked in medical physics at Newcastle general my boss was a guy who'd designed a magnetic device which speeded up bone healing. It was called the Bart bone box. It was impractical (you'd have to sit in hospital all day) so nothing came of it. But, it used magnets and it worked.
 
sturisoma said:
ok so how does copper do that?
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No idea. You'd have to ask an expert, which I'm most certainly not. However, this has been properly researched, tested and replicated. In other words, it's established as effective. Unlike 'magnetic healing', 'homoeopathy', 'phrenology', 'witchcraft' and the rest of it - unless, of course, you can point to some properly researched, tested and replicated examples of any of the above?

(Nb: 'It worked for me' is not science.)
 
jon ryan said:
No idea. You'd have to ask an expert, which I'm most certainly not. However, this has been properly researched, tested and replicated. In other words, it's established as effective. Unlike 'magnetic healing', 'homoeopathy', 'phrenology', 'witchcraft' and the rest of it - unless, of course, you can point to some properly researched, tested and replicated examples of any of the above?

(Nb: 'It worked for me' is not science.)
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See, this is the problem, Jon. Because something has not been double blind tested does not mean it doesn't work and is woowoo. That is pseudo-skeptism not true zetetic thinking. An open mind looks and sees that people appear to be healed by these methods (whatever they may be) and wonders what is happening instead of dismissing. Of course, it may be placebo ( which is an incredible effect on and of itself) but until there is a party with the funds and desire to have all these alternative methods properly tested without bias then they're all in the interesting category rather than nonsense. The problem is that only big pharma has the resources to fund testing and they have zero to gain from proving anything other than drugs (which kill more people than any alternative) are effective. Dismissing one or another says much more about our own biases and belief systems than reality.
 
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If it helps the pain, which most people can not even begin imagine then thats all that matters. I should take more care of myself , if a simple change of diet can help then bring it on.
 
Lee, don't take my word for it, do some research. :)
 
hello Dean, i think you are correct, anything that can help should be looked into. I also think you have been a great help to this thread and someone may benefit from it too.
 
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jon ryan said:
No idea. You'd have to ask an expert, which I'm most certainly not. However, this has been properly researched, tested and replicated. In other words, it's established as effective. Unlike 'magnetic healing', 'homoeopathy', 'phrenology', 'witchcraft' and the rest of it - unless, of course, you can point to some properly researched, tested and replicated examples of any of the above?

(Nb: 'It worked for me' is not science.)
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ok, so point me to the research carried out for using copper as an IUD - surely, like ECT doctors used it because it seemed to work, rather than following the findings of scientific research which showed that a) it would work and (most important) b) why it would work
 
purplepleaser said:
hello Dean, i think you are correct, anything that can help should be looked into. I also think you have been a great help to this thread and someone may benefit from it too.
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Thank you.
 
The23rdman said:
See, this is the problem, Jon. Because something has not been double blind tested does not mean it doesn't work and is woowoo. That is pseudo-skeptism not true zetetic thinking. An open mind looks and sees that people appear to be healed by these methods (whatever they may be) and wonders what is happening instead of dismissing. Of course, it may be placebo ( which is an incredible effect on and of itself) but until there is a party with the funds and desire to have all these alternative methods properly tested without bias then they're all in the interesting category rather than nonsense. The problem is that only big pharma has the resources to fund testing and they have zero to gain from proving anything other than drugs (which kill more people than any alternative) are effective. Dismissing one or another says much more about our own biases and belief systems than reality.
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Big pharma. Oh dear. Oh dear oh dear oh dear. I suggest you read 'Bad Science' by Ben Goldacre.
 
sturisoma said:
ok, so point me to the research carried out for using copper as an IUD - surely, like ECT doctors used it because it seemed to work, rather than following the findings of scientific research which showed that a) it would work and (most important) b) why it would work
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How about that many millions of women use this method of contraception - and they don't get pregnant! Is that not sufficient proof for you? Or do you have some proof that IUD does not work as a contraceptive?
 
jon ryan said:
How about that many millions of women use this method of contraception - and they don't get pregnant! Is that not sufficient proof for you? Or do you have some proof that IUD does not work as a contraceptive?
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I'm sorry, Jon, testimonial evidence doesn't count (your rules). Thousands of people will happily testify to being cured of cancer by Gerson Therapy, herbs and a multitude of other methods, but that doesn't constitute proof either.
 
The23rdman said:
I'm sorry, Jon, testimonial evidence doesn't count (your rules). Thousands of people will happily testify to being cured of cancer by Gerson Therapy, herbs and a multitude of other methods, but that doesn't constitute proof either.
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I'm not talking about testimonial 'evidence'. I'm talking about empirical proof: Millions of women have used, and continue to use, IUD contraception. It works. The proof is there to be seen in the lack of babies.
 
What about the lack of cancer cells in those who use non allopathic means? Oh, but they're written off as spontaneous remission or just completely ignored. That is the big pharma bias.
 
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