"Arsenal", the intelligent camera assistant - on KickStarter

StewartR

StewartR

Suspended / Banned
Messages
11,513
Name
Stewart
Edit My Images
Yes
Apparently this is the most funded camera gadget ever on KickStarter. Shame about the name, but the creator is from the US and probably doesn't realise how he's just alienated a big chunk of the UK market.

Seriously though, it's a little box that plugs into your camera and communicates wirelessly with your phone which you use to control it. It claims to be able to:
- suggest the optimal camera settings based on a whole load of environmental factors (explanation here) - a sort of green box mode on steroids, perhaps;
- control your camera remotely with live previews
- automate multi-shot techniques such as timelapses, HDR and focus stacking
- and of course facilitate easy sharing via your phone

It looks very interesting. What do people think?
 
Last edited:
Grossly overpriced.

£50 handy non essential tool.
 
Great for anyone who doesn't want to have to learn all that boring stuff about photography, like exposure & stuff

I'm waiting for Arsenal II - where you think you'd like a photo taking but cba to actually do it, so Arsenal II will go off by itself and come back with great photos for you; until then, its a nice toy for those with nothing better to spend their money on

Dave
 
Duhhhh dunno mate
I fink it's a gadget too far mate
Knowwotahmeenmate

Amdanapubnahmate
 
Last edited:
Just another expensive solution looking for a problem.

Having had a very quick read through the blurb it all sounds like snake oil to me.
 
Last edited:
I'm a little suspicious of kickstarter stuff as there appears to be several well designed pipedreams that come to nothing apart from funding the originators lifestyle and dreams for a year
 
Just remember, you're not buying a product, you just investing in the hope that it all comes to fruition.

If you want to go down this route, why not just search the internet for great photos, then download them. Who could be bothered with all that nonsense involved in actually taking your own photos :p:D
 
I'm struggling a little to see the difference with that and the fuji, nikon or other apps
 
If it does what it says as well as they say it does then it is a very impressive piece of kit, saying that I'll be surprised if it is anything like that good or delivered in final working configuration in anything like the proposed timelines.

Even if it's not for you you have to admire the ambition and the technology on show, now they just need it to sort the composition which I've always thought is the bit where he real magic happens anyway!
 
This assumes that great photography is just about 'settings' when that's obviously [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER] and is already what the pre-set scene modes do (sport, portrait, landscape etc). Reality is - first find a good subject (difficult), get some great light (more difficult), compose carefully and time it right. That's how to get good photos, no camera can do any of those things or you, and the technical stuff like camera settings and focus etc are really just small and simple steps along the way.

Why so many gullible people have bought into this Arsenal thing is bewildering, but just because it doesn't actually work may not stop it being a success - with the right marketing. After all, we spend a fortune on slimming potions and cures for baldness and they don't work either. It also ties in to the public psyche and widely held belief that photography is easy and that all you need is a magic camera loaded with expensive technology.
 
Last edited:
Isn't 'determining the optimal settings for the scene you're shooting' what the built-in technology (matrix metering, AF with face recognition, 'scene' modes, etc.) does anyway, if you want it to? For the rest, remote control apps are two a penny.
 
Sounds like it should have been called the "Orient"

Bleedin hopeless and more than likely won't be around in a couple of years time
 
[QUOTE="HoppyUK]

Why so many gullible people have bought into this Arsenal thing is ....[/QUOTE]

I think I saw it a couple of weeks ago on petapixel
 
$1,579,009 pledged already wow is that really 1.5 million?
 
I suppose it highlights, how many people, couldn't be arsed with the actual process of photography :eek:
 
It's a perfect addition to all those people who have spent a fortune on an expensive camera, with all those buttons and dials and want to 'take it off auto' without actually taking it off auto.

I'm sure it will be highly successful and the end of manual photography forever............................not!
 
Last edited:
It is more than 'sport', 'macro' and 'people' mode but rather it is a machine learning algorithm behind it to try and work out what the scene is and how it should expose - e.g. if there's a lot of bright sky it isn't necessarily a bad thing to blow it out in preference of detail elsewhere.

I like the HDR and focus stacking capabilities, it also has settings for you setting the points you'd like in focus and it tries to work out the hyperlocal distance and whether it can set the aperture wide enough without introducing camera shake etc.

At $150 I think it's a bit much, but I think it's a pretty tidy piece of kit
 
Uneducated_Rick said:
It is more than 'sport', 'macro' and 'people' mode but rather it is a machine learning algorithm behind it to try and work out what the scene is and how it should expose - e.g. if there's a lot of bright sky it isn't necessarily a bad thing to blow it out in preference of detail elsewhere.
Click to expand...
That sounds rather like re-inventing the wheel, though. Using data from 'thousands' of existing images to inform the settings is nothing new (though the algorithm may be different). Here's a description of Nikon's metering from several years ago:

http://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-an...d-innovation/3d-color-matrix-metering-ii.html

'The 3D Color Matrix Meter II takes into account the scene's contrast and brightness, the subject's distance (via a D- or G-type NIKKOR lens), the color of the subject within the scene and RGB color values in every section of the scene. 3D Color Matrix Metering II also uses special exposure-evaluation algorithms, optimized for digital imaging, that detect highlight areas. The meter then accesses a database of over 30,000 actual images to determine the best exposure for the scene.'

More recent cameras use what Nikon calls the 'Advanced Scene Recognition System', which interacts with the AF tracking system and includes face recognition, etc.:

http://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-an...cene-recognition-system-and-advanced-srs.html

Do the Arsenal guys have any hard evidence that retrofitting their gadget to a recent dSLR improves on the built-in technology for choosing exposure settings automatically?
 
Retune said:
That sounds rather like re-inventing the wheel, though. Using data from 'thousands' of existing images to inform the settings is nothing new (though the algorithm may be different). Here's a description of Nikon's metering from several years ago:

http://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-an...d-innovation/3d-color-matrix-metering-ii.html

'The 3D Color Matrix Meter II takes into account the scene's contrast and brightness, the subject's distance (via a D- or G-type NIKKOR lens), the color of the subject within the scene and RGB color values in every section of the scene. 3D Color Matrix Metering II also uses special exposure-evaluation algorithms, optimized for digital imaging, that detect highlight areas. The meter then accesses a database of over 30,000 actual images to determine the best exposure for the scene.'

More recent cameras use what Nikon calls the 'Advanced Scene Recognition System', which interacts with the AF tracking system and includes face recognition, etc.:

http://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-an...cene-recognition-system-and-advanced-srs.html

Do the Arsenal guys have any hard evidence that retrofitting their gadget to a recent dSLR improves on the built-in technology for choosing exposure settings automatically?
Click to expand...

I don't think it's trying to get correct exposure, but creative settings for different effects. It's more like the scene modes that select, say, a low f/number for shallow depth of field with portraits, a higher f/number for deeper DoF landscapes, a faster shutter speed to freeze action etc.

But since nobody has trouble recogonising those subjects, I'm not sure how much more useful Arsenal will be. I would also guess that potential users will be lead to believe that more extreme effects like blown-out bokeh backgrounds and the popular milky water look can be had at the touch of a button, without realising that you also need a fast-aperture lens, or a tripod and ND filter. And that's in addition to the more difficult tasks of first finding a good subject in the best light.

Unfortunately, there's no escaping the fact that creative photography requires knowledge and skill and experience - every situation is different and often requires certain equipment.
 
HoppyUK said:
Unfortunately, there's no escaping the fact that creative photography requires knowledge and skill and experience - every situation is different and often requires certain equipment.
Click to expand...

I've found a camera often helps!:LOL:
 
My impression
HoppyUK said:
I don't think it's trying to get correct exposure, but creative settings for different effects. It's more like the scene modes that select, say, a low f/number for shallow depth of field with portraits, a higher f/number for deeper DoF landscapes, a faster shutter speed to freeze action etc.
Click to expand...
To me it sounds like they are claiming some combination of these things and, as you say, it's already pretty easy to dial in an appropriate 'scene' mode (or program shift) for a given situation. But the blurb is fairly vague about exactly how it operates.
 
Retune said:
My impression
To me it sounds like they are claiming some combination of these things and, as you say, it's already pretty easy to dial in an appropriate 'scene' mode (or program shift) for a given situation. But the blurb is fairly vague about exactly how it operates.
Click to expand...

My guess is they don't know exactly either, but k=hey, lets raise a million + quid and we'll see what we can do.
 
DG Phototraining said:
I'm waiting for Arsenal II - where you think you'd like a photo taking but cba to actually do it, so Arsenal II will go off by itself and come back with great photos for you; until then, its a nice toy for those with nothing better to spend their money on
Click to expand...


Like Google Image search or Panormio via Google Earth? Or, if 8MP is enough, frame grabbing from 4K video.
 
$2,822,420 raised as of today :eek:

It looks like something massively overpriced
 
I like gadgets but I am struggling to see a use for it. At almost £200 it seems hugely excessive but hey what do I know,"15,766 backers pledged $2,650,310 to help bring this project to life." Although, I am reminded of the English saying "A fool and his money is soon parted".
 
I've just watched the video, and it does sound very impressive and a great thing to have.

Except...

What if the great pictures in its database that it is using to suggest settings aren't ones I'd personally want to emulate? I presume water will either be milky or frozen, and that's something that splits photographers...

There are a lot of settings it's analysing that I've never considered (although that's probably just the subjects I photograph) so in practice I don't have to consider so much.

I did like the easy way Ryan skated over composition, as though finding the ideal viewpoint and focal length to convey the mood/feeling/information you want was the easy part, and getting the exposure and focus right the really difficult job.

It promises to remove/reduce the amount of technical information you need to consider, and that sets a warning bell ringing in my mind. Once you've eliminated this from everyday consideration - perhaps to the extent that you come to photography armed with Arsenal and never learn it - and cease to consider it, there must be a lot of things that you're going to struggle with. Focus stacking in low light on a field of poppies in a stiff breeze anyone? How else do you ensure front to back sharpness? (N.B. THIS IS A RHETORICAL QUESTION).

I liked the suggestion as to where the name came from (even if it wasn't offered as a suggestion as to where the name came from):

johnnypanic said:
I suppose it highlights, how many people, couldn't be arsed with the actual process of photography
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
StephenM said:
I liked the suggestion as to where the name came from (even if it wasn't oddered as a suggestion as to where the name came from):
Click to expand...

Surprised it took someone so long to notice :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top