Argh, ebay rant.

A quick update:

The buyer has taken it into a local camera shop who quoted £121 to repair the lens (*choke*).

The camera shop have said that the damage was caused during use.

I said I would pay half if it was from wear and tear, but clearly it's not, the damage was done by the buyer.

I don't really know where to go from here. Should I just flat out say no and hope ebay don't screw me over?
 
Has he raised it as a problem with eBay/PP yet? If not, you could clear out your PP account and just call it a day as far as eBay is concerned.... but make no mistake, they will come down on his side (even if he's in the wrong) and take the money back from your PP account....

This is the reason I now only very occasionally sell low value items on eBay - sellers have no rights any more. :shrug:
 
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I wouldn't send him a penny!! Lens was sent in perfect working condition.
 
He's at it.... I would empty PP and sit back and wait .
 
foodpoison said:
A quick update:

The buyer has taken it into a local camera shop who quoted £121 to repair the lens (*choke*).

The camera shop have said that the damage was caused during use.

I said I would pay half if it was from wear and tear, but clearly it's not, the damage was done by the buyer.

I don't really know where to go from here. Should I just flat out say no and hope ebay don't screw me over?
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Your options are pay £60 to get him off your back or do a full refund and be left with a busted lens.

Personally I'd do the refund unless he has sent you a copy of the repair estimate as it seems to me that this is a buyer chancing his arm.

Does his feedback indicate in any way that he has tried this before?

On the subject of feedback, has the buyer at any stage of your exchanges made reference to the type of feedback he would be leaving you?
 
DekHog said:
Has he raised it as a problem with eBay/PP yet? If not, you could clear out your PP account and just call it a day as far as eBay is concerned.... but make no mistake, they will come down on his side (even if he's in the wrong) and take the money back from your PP account....

This is the reason I now only very occasionally sell low value items on eBay - sellers have no rights any more. :shrug:
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He hasn't raised it yet. I have emptied the account (I needed the money for rent).
I thought they would come down on his side. That's what's so f-ed up about the whole thing :(

The Greek said:
I wouldn't send him a penny!! Lens was sent in perfect working condition.
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I know man, I know.

mxfun said:
He's at it.... I would empty PP and sit back and wait .
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Done. I'm trying to be helpful but the thing is, you buy a second hand car/guitar/television. If it's sold as described, and THEN something breaks, you wouldn't go, "Oh, damn, the seller sold me a broken item." You'd say, "Oh, the thing I bought broke, I'll get it repaired."

It's all BS. It's stressing me right out.

dentedshed said:
Empty your paypal account and Paypal will still chase you for the money. That really is a foolish bit of advice.
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I thought as much.

dentedshed said:
Your options are pay £60 to get him off your back or do a full refund and be left with a busted lens.

Personally I'd do the refund unless he has sent you a copy of the repair estimate as it seems to me that this is a buyer chancing his arm.

Does his feedback indicate in any way that he has tried this before?

On the subject of feedback, has the buyer at any stage of your exchanges made reference to the type of feedback he would be leaving you?
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He sent me a copy of the repair estimate, it's written down, yeah, it's legit. I think I'm going to ask him to go to Sigma as well.

He gave me positive feedback as soon as the item arrived at his, yet he 'didn't open it or test it until a week later' even though he wanted the item delivered before Monday (sold on Thursday). Why would you care if you weren't going to even look at the product until the following Saturday? :shrug:
 
Who buys a lens then doesn't open/look at it for a week? Not a single person I can think of.... it's boys toys; can't come soon enough and you open it like a 5-year old at Xmas. :shrug:
 
If he goes down the paypal route and opens a significantly not as described claim, Paypal will give you some options, full refund to the buyer with them having to cover the costs of returning it to you via a trackable method, or partial refund. sometimes if the buyer is trying to pull a fast one they will be put off by the cost of having to send the item back. I had this issue recently, sent an item full working condition when it left me with full bomb proof packaging, buyer claimed item was broken when it arrived opened a paypal dispute and said he would accept a partial 50 quid refund. I forced paypal to make the decision and they told him he had to send it back, he then closed the claim saying it had been amicably resolved. Watch out for the scammers!
 
slim said:
If he goes down the paypal route and opens a significantly not as described claim, Paypal will give you some options, full refund to the buyer with them having to cover the costs of returning it to you via a trackable method, or partial refund. sometimes if the buyer is trying to pull a fast one they will be put off by the cost of having to send the item back. I had this issue recently, sent an item full working condition when it left me with full bomb proof packaging, buyer claimed item was broken when it arrived opened a paypal dispute and said he would accept a partial 50 quid refund. I forced paypal to make the decision and they told him he had to send it back, he then closed the claim saying it had been amicably resolved. Watch out for the scammers!
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And I've had this where he never sent the item back and faked the tracking info, if they choose this option paypal give you a set time to acknowledge the item's returned and issue the refund before they issue the refund anyway :thumbsdown:
 
dentedshed said:
Empty your paypal account and Paypal will still chase you for the money. That really is a foolish bit of advice.
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Worked for me.... so I guess .....not so foolish after all ...meh meh
 
foodpoison said:
He sent me a copy of the repair estimate, it's written down, yeah, it's legit. I think I'm going to ask him to go to Sigma as well.

He gave me positive feedback as soon as the item arrived at his, yet he 'didn't open it or test it until a week later' even though he wanted the item delivered before Monday (sold on Thursday). Why would you care if you weren't going to even look at the product until the following Saturday? :shrug:
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Okay.

Your buyer seems to think that it is okay to leave things laying around before doing anything about it so here is my suggestion.

Next message that you send him state that you are away from Thursday morning for the weekend and won't be back until Monday so won't be able to answer any questions or reply to emails.

On Monday ask him to send it for repair and you will refund the money when provided with a copy of the final bill. I suggest that you ask him to use his local camera shop for this as this will add a few days to the process.

This is the point at which you know if he is genuine or not as he will have to stump up the full amount of repair before seeing any money back from you.

If you get a copy of the final bill, cover the agreed amount. Personally I don't think that you will see it.

The main thing here is time, he has 45 days in which to open a claim against you (17th April) because if you can get to that date without him opening a case then you are in the clear as he has already left feedback for you.

The above might seem a little harsh but you will know if he is genuine if you see the final repair bill.
 
I wouldn't clear your Paypal and run, Paypal have friends that come knocking on doors very quickly. I had a similar situation and Paypal sided with buyer, I emptied my account and I had two rather unpleasant men at my door within 2 weeks, and that added 100 to the bill.

I'm afraid to say, chances are you will loose. Paypal and eBay are only interested in the money!

Seller is responsible for the item until in buyers hands, and if buyer claims it was broken on arrival, it will be your job to claim against royal mail or whom ever u sent it by. Also I'm sure royal mail only insure glass on special delivery items, but I might be wrong
 
What I would like to take a moment to say this:

I believe the buyer broke the lens while using it, either by forcing it with the locking switch on (this locking switch prevents the lens from 'creeping' when being carried), or by dropping the lens. The buyer says the lens didn't work properly when they used it (over a week after receiving the item) and has said I sold him a lens which could have failed upon him receiving the item. I have a full log of messages and events throughout the transaction and so can faithfully recount everything the buyer has said.

If anyone has any knowledge about law, particularly trading standards, and wouldn't mind looking over this log for me, I would be very happy to buy them a beer if it wouldn't be so much trouble. Please PM me or reply here if you are able to help, thank you.

DekHog said:
Who buys a lens then doesn't open/look at it for a week? Not a single person I can think of.... it's boys toys; can't come soon enough and you open it like a 5-year old at Xmas. :shrug:
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Exactly, it's all such BS.

slim said:
If he goes down the paypal route and opens a significantly not as described claim, Paypal will give you some options, full refund to the buyer with them having to cover the costs of returning it to you via a trackable method, or partial refund. sometimes if the buyer is trying to pull a fast one they will be put off by the cost of having to send the item back. I had this issue recently, sent an item full working condition when it left me with full bomb proof packaging, buyer claimed item was broken when it arrived opened a paypal dispute and said he would accept a partial 50 quid refund. I forced paypal to make the decision and they told him he had to send it back, he then closed the claim saying it had been amicably resolved. Watch out for the scammers!
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I don't think he's trying to scam me out of money. I think he broke the lens and is now trying to swing it around at me.

dentedshed said:
Okay.

Your buyer seems to think that it is okay to leave things laying around before doing anything about it so here is my suggestion.

Next message that you send him state that you are away from Thursday morning for the weekend and won't be back until Monday so won't be able to answer any questions or reply to emails.

On Monday ask him to send it for repair and you will refund the money when provided with a copy of the final bill. I suggest that you ask him to use his local camera shop for this as this will add a few days to the process.

This is the point at which you know if he is genuine or not as he will have to stump up the full amount of repair before seeing any money back from you.

If you get a copy of the final bill, cover the agreed amount. Personally I don't think that you will see it.

The main thing here is time, he has 45 days in which to open a claim against you (17th April) because if you can get to that date without him opening a case then you are in the clear as he has already left feedback for you.

The above might seem a little harsh but you will know if he is genuine if you see the final repair bill.
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The thing is, the buyer is quite happy to do this. I don't want to bloody pay £60 for something that I didn't effing break. It's not right and I'm a stubbornly moralistic person.

stokes said:
I wouldn't clear your Paypal and run, Paypal have friends that come knocking on doors very quickly. I had a similar situation and Paypal sided with buyer, I emptied my account and I had two rather unpleasant men at my door within 2 weeks, and that added 100 to the bill.

I'm afraid to say, chances are you will loose. Paypal and eBay are only interested in the money!

Seller is responsible for the item until in buyers hands, and if buyer claims it was broken on arrival, it will be your job to claim against royal mail or whom ever u sent it by. Also I'm sure royal mail only insure glass on special delivery items, but I might be wrong
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I know man, I know. This is such a stink.

The thing is, it's gone on for so long, there is no original boxing for the product and I'm not sure how Royal Mail will react with a claim.
 
stokes said:
I wouldn't clear your Paypal and run, Paypal have friends that come knocking on doors very quickly. I had a similar situation and Paypal sided with buyer, I emptied my account and I had two rather unpleasant men at my door within 2 weeks, and that added 100 to the bill.

I'm afraid to say, chances are you will loose. Paypal and eBay are only interested in the money!

Seller is responsible for the item until in buyers hands, and if buyer claims it was broken on arrival, it will be your job to claim against royal mail or whom ever u sent it by. Also I'm sure royal mail only insure glass on special delivery items, but I might be wrong
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I really cannot believe PayPal send out anyone to knock on doors? What exactly would they be asking for? ..... If true? then you have been seriously scammed!
 
Splog said:
I really cannot believe PayPal send out anyone to knock on doors? What exactly would they be asking for? ..... If true? then you have been seriously scammed!
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He wasn't scammed. Paypal refunds the money then employs baliffs to collect the debt. It happens and the details are in the user agreement about monies owed to Paypal.
 
If you owe paypal money, which rightly or wrongly you would if they sided with the buyer, of course they might consider sending bailiffs in. If you owed your bank money, you would expect the same.. What's the difference?
 
dentedshed said:
He wasn't scammed. Paypal refunds the money then employs baliffs to collect the debt. It happens and the details are in the user agreement about monies owed to Paypal.
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Rubbish! ..... For PayPal to employ any genuine bailiff they would require a court order!
 
TCR4x4 said:
If you owe paypal money, which rightly or wrongly you would if they sided with the buyer, of course they might consider sending bailiffs in. If you owed your bank money, you would expect the same.. What's the difference?
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See my earlier reply!
 
Okay, maybe 2 weeks was a little quick, but it certainly happened, and happened very quickly. They did sell it to a debt collection agency, the name escapes me, but will check the paperwork when I get home...

I had a few letters from them and then they were at the door.
 
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canonguy said:
ebay and paypal, a complete pain in the ar+#, i have been locked out of my paypal and ebay account all because they have a £1900 limit for recieving funds in any 1 year, and because i have sold more than that value, they now are investigating my accounts for fraud or money laundering? even though i have 100% positive feedback, its a joke, they are also holding funds in my pp account, which they say can be for 180 days wtf is that all about. i am not happy to say the least.
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The reason eBay do this is due to the tax laws, I think (not 100% sure) the tax man has stipulated that anyone who receives ammounts above a certain threshold within a 12 month period should be registered as a business seller and not a private seller. This is due to tax not being paid on the amounts above the threshold.

With regard to PayPal holding your money, this is an automated thing. Within your profile settings within PayPal there is a setting which allows you to set your estimated monthly incomings into the PayPal account. Once this amount has been exceeded the PayPal system automatically flags you for investigation. This is because you have exceeded the stipulated amount within your profile settings. They may also flag you and block you if your account has been inactive or not used a lot. Then you sell a shed load of stuff in a short period of time and they automatically think you are fraudulent. I used to have my own online multi sales channel business and the most problems we had as a seller came from eBay and the PayPal system, Royal Mail, and Customer Fraud. :thumbsdown:
 
I might be missing something, but if he has left positive feedback, how does he have an argument to make? Surely you don't leave feedback until you've checked an item?

What's the wording of the feedback?
 
Have sent the log to dentedshed and lostsoulal2 for a once-over. I really appreciate that guys, top blokes! :thumbs:

markrichardson said:
I might be missing something, but if he has left positive feedback, how does he have an argument to make? Surely you don't leave feedback until you've checked an item?

What's the wording of the feedback?
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Super fast dispatch! Excellent Seller!
 
foodpoison said:
Have sent the log to dentedshed and lostsoulal2 for a once-over. I really appreciate that guys, top blokes! :thumbs:



Super fast dispatch! Excellent Seller!
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End of story as far as im concerned. He received the lens, was happy with transaction, left positive feedback. THE END!

Unless you sold lens with a 45 day money back guarantee which also covers misuse and breakages. :lol:
 
dentedshed said:
Okay, they sell the debt to a debt collecting firm and then the heavies get sent in. Better?
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They would still need a court order to come knocking on your door and expect you to pay money.
 
They don't need a court order to come visit you, but you can quite happily tell them to fcuk off and don't come back - they have no powers, and you can call the police if they don't move or come back again....
 
dentedshed said:
Your saying that Paypal refunded your buyer and didn't come after you for the money after you emptied your account?
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No ,it resolved a situation between me and the buyer,get off ** high horse man for goodness sake .
 
All a debt collector can do is ask you to pay. They have no legal authority. If they are behaving in a threatening manor, contact the police. If a debt collector is pretending or giving the impression of being an appointed baliff, contact your councils trading standards department.

Baliffs are only involved if you can't come to an arrangement to repay your creditors after your case has been to court. Baliffs usually work by threatening to take your possessions to persuade you to pay what you owe, or taking and selling things you own to repay your debt.
 
The one thing that hasn't been mentioned, is the effect it could have on your credit rating. I'm not sure if Papal report to the credit reference agencies. If they don't, it is possible that the debt collectors they use, may.
 
nilagin said:
They would still need a court order to come knocking on your door and expect you to pay money.
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A debt collecting firm can send someone round to knock on your door without a court order. I agree that a court order would be required to legally remove anything of value from your home. Debt collecting firms rely on their victims not being aware of this fact.
 
Let's steer this back on track shall we *grabs the wheel and yanks it firmly counter-clockwise*

Dentedshed's friend said that while any normal person can read between the lines and it's clearly obvious that the buyer is trying to pull a fast one, however the way they're wording it shows that they know exactly what the should and shouldn't be saying, and so it's likely Ebay will side with him should it come down to it.

What he has suggested I do is string him along, and try and evoke an angry or threatening response from the buyer so he is in breach of Ebay's harassment policy.
Any views on this?

Have just replied saying that before I pay out for any kind of repair, I would like to know how damage was caused as the lens was in perfect working condition before leaving me (can prove this with exif images if need be), and that I will be away for the weekend and won't be able to reply until monday or tuesday (as suggested earlier).

Will see how things pan out.
 
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I think that's exactly the approach you should take. Play the game and watch your timeliness carefully.

Really winds me up reading about people trying to shaft genuine sellers. I had a similar thing a couple of years back - needless to say I no longer use eBay or PayPal and I'd rather not sell than risk getting fleeced again.

Here's a thought : if I had bought a lens off you that i thought was broken, I'd sure as hell not be suggesting you'd pay only half the repair. There's no way this is genuine, he's broken it and merely sees a way to minimize his repair bill.

Hope you don't end up getting shafted on this. Next time round don't accept PayPal (if you can still do that in eBay)
 
foodpoison said:
Let's steer this back on track shall we *grabs the wheel and yanks it firmly counter-clockwise*

Dentedshed's friend said that while any normal person can read between the lines and it's clearly obvious that the buyer is trying to pull a fast one, however the way they're wording it shows that they know exactly what the should and shouldn't be saying, and so it's likely Ebay will side with him should it come down to it.

What he has suggested I do is string him along, and try and evoke an angry or threatening response from the buyer so he is in breach of Ebay's harassment policy.
Any views on this?

Have just replied saying that before I pay out for any kind of repair, I would like to know how damage was caused as the lens was in perfect working condition before leaving me (can prove this with exif images if need be), and that I will be away for the weekend and won't be able to reply until monday or tuesday (as suggested earlier).

Will see how things pan out.
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I agree, play the buyer along. Also stipulate they must send you a copy of the repair estimate. At least then you will be able to provide images of the item in working condition, along with a document that says the damage has been done in user error etc... This along with the images should strengthen your case with eBay against the buyer.
 
Are Ebid any better at dealing with dodgy buyers? There doesn't seem to be a safe way to buy and sell goods online that doesn't involve using ebay.

Ebay might still take moneybookers as I wouldn't want any payment method that exposed your bank account details to a potentially dodgy buyer.

Can you add a no refunds/no returns after 48 hours of delivery to listings to reduce the window of opportunity for scammers?
 
srichards said:
Are Ebid any better at dealing with dodgy buyers? There doesn't seem to be a safe way to buy and sell goods online that doesn't involve using ebay.

Ebay might still take moneybookers as I wouldn't want any payment method that exposed your bank account details to a potentially dodgy buyer.

Can you add a no refunds/no returns after 48 hours of delivery to listings to reduce the window of opportunity for scammers?
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Not sure if it is true but I think I read somewhere a few years ago that eBid were being bought out by eBay.
 
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