Are there any mechanics in the house

jakeblu

jakeblu

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Steve
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Just looking for some advice. My mother-in-law has a Citroen C3 04 plate, diesel. She took the car for its MOT last week and if failed on emissions, one of the injectors has been leaking. So garage attempts to remove injector and it snaps leaving the bottom half in the car. 5 days later and seemingly numerous failed attempts to remove it and the garage is now talking about removing the cylinder head. Now even I know thats a big job and I am beginning to worry that we will be starting to cross the line of viability regarding costs, it is after all 10 year old car.

So, my question, has the garage fcuked up by breaking the injector or is it a common problem? It seems my MiL is likely to be carless and I am concerned it was avoidable.
 
Hi Steve

To use a technical term, this is "one of those things".
Injectors do sometimes seize and no matter how careful the mechanic has been there comes a time when you have to take a calculated risk and use some leverage.
One of two things will then happen and unfortunately the less preferred one did.
It's frustrating but if the guy hadn't tried your MiL would have a car with a whole dead injector rather than half of one.
The last thing you then want is for them to damage the head trying to remove the remains in situ - it's much easier with the head off.
So I guess the only thing you can do is decide whether it's cost effective.

cheers, cw
 
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I am not sure of the exact circumstances behind this but if it were my car and the garage damaged it then they would be picking up the cost of repairs & providing a courtesy car whilst they repair it
 
Looks to be a known issue with the HDI engine:

http://citroenc3owners.com/diesel-citroen-c3/look-at-this-c3-1-4-hdi-engine-failure-t367.html

Did they use the proper citroen tools to remove the injector? If not then you could consider it negligence on their part and make sure their liability insurance paid to sort out the mess. If they did use the proper tools then it is just one of those things that may or may not be covered by their policy. If it is a citroen independent then they should know the risks of taking out an injector and hopefully come to some reasonable compromise with your MIL on who pays for what.

It's a 10 year old citroen. It's highly likely to be a waste of money to repair unfortunately.
 
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Whilst agreeing with what Chris said above, would not the repair shop's insurance deal with the cost as it was they wot dun it, occifer.
 
It's a common problem, so much so a guy that used to work with us started his own business removing seized/damaged/snapped injectors.

Where is the MIL's car? My mate covers Scotland.
 
Chris Wilson said:
Hi Steve

To use a technical term, this is "one of those things".
Injectors do sometimes seize and no matter how careful the mechanic has been there comes a time when you have to take a calculated risk and use some leverage.
One of two things will then happen and unfortunately the less preferred one did.
It's frustrating but if the guy hadn't tried your MiL would have a car with a whole dead injector rather than half of one.
The last thing you then want is for them to damage the head trying to remove the remains in situ - it's much easier with the head off.
So I guess the only thing you can do is decide whether it's cost effective.

cheers, cw
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I am happy to accept its just one of those things, if thats the case. I have used this garage before and I always believed them to be fair

Keith W said:
I am not sure of the exact circumstances behind this but if it were my car and the garage damaged it then they would be picking up the cost of repairs & providing a courtesy car whilst they repair it
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Thats it, its all about circumstances. If they have knackered it then I would expect some kind of arrangement, if its just one of those things as Chris says then she will just have to accept it

srichards said:
Looks to be a known issue with the HDI engine:

http://citroenc3owners.com/diesel-citroen-c3/look-at-this-c3-1-4-hdi-engine-failure-t367.html

Did they use the proper citroen tools to remove the injector? If not then you could consider it negligence on their part and make sure their liability insurance paid to sort out the mess. If they did use the proper tools then it is just one of those things that may or may not be covered by their policy. If it is a citroen independent then they should know the risks of taking out an injector and hopefully come to some reasonable compromise with your MIL on who pays for what.

It's a 10 year old citroen. It's highly likely to be a waste of money to repair unfortunately.
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I'm pretty certain they wouldnt have had the right tool. When they initially phoned me, I took it in for her so feel a little bit responsible, he warned me it could be a long job and cost £300-380 depending how easy it was to get out. At that time they thought it was only the seal that had gone but seemingly the carbon had damaged the injector and they have broken the injector taking it out. Not sure where to go with this. He was supposed to ring me this morning but no call as of yet

Stuart M said:
Whilst agreeing with what Chris said above, would not the repair shop's insurance deal with the cost as it was they wot dun it, occifer.
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Thats why I am asking here, was hoping someone who has done this type of work would know

DavieW said:
It's a common problem, so much so a guy that used to work with us started his own business removing seized/damaged/snapped injectors.

Where is the MIL's car? My mate covers Scotland.
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It is a common problem with the earlier C3's, apparently the seals were innefective and let in water. But i understand MiL's is a modified one and doesnt suffer this. Basically the seal has leaked and the carbon has damaged to injector

I live in Leeds btw so scotland not really an option.
 
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On some scooters you have to remove the exaust to remove the rear wheel. Where the exhaust meets the head is right by the wheel so exhaust bolts always seized in. Its just one of those things. As for who pays tbh I'm not sure. I'm sure when it happened there was many words shouted and it sounds like they've tried to sort it. The thing is the injector had to come out so what does the mechanic do? If he had phoned and told you it was seized would you have told him to leave it in? And its not hiss fault it was seized. There are plenty of different ways of in seizing stuff but it doesn't always work.
 
If using the correct tool would have meant a significantly less likely chance of snapping then the garage should be sorting out the damage they caused FOC.
 
weigh up the costs, but likely you may just have to consider a VW / Skoda next. PSA cars don't particularly shine in the longevity department, and their engines require the exact specification oil for servicing. Many garages put in generic stuff which leads to injector and turbo failure over time.
 
srichards said:
If using the correct tool would have meant a significantly less likely chance of snapping then the garage should be sorting out the damage they caused FOC.
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If its seized its seized. It should make any difference who makes the tool. The fact that he could grip the injector enough for it to snap means its got nothing to do with the tool. It happens with spark plugs too.
 
Raptor Mike said:
If its seized its seized. It should make any difference who makes the tool. The fact that he could grip the injector enough for it to snap means its got nothing to do with the tool. It happens with spark plugs too.
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I am happy to accept that it is just one of those things if thats what it is.
 
The best thing to do is ask the garage if they can give you a rough idea how much they think it's going to cost. If they're are a good garage I expect they took every care not to snap it, after all they dont want it to snap either.

As for whether it's worth it, that depends on how much the car's worth (obviously) but also how much it will cost to replace it. Don't forget you still have to pay the garage.
 
ST4 said:
Just fix the thing. It's an old car but still worth fixing. Head off out with injector in goes a new one, reseat the new one job done
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If only life was that simple. How many hours to take off the head and put it back together again, I'd hate to think at £40 +vat.
Raptor Mike said:
The best thing to do is ask the garage if they can give you a rough idea how much they think it's going to cost. If they're are a good garage I expect they took every care not to snap it, after all they dont want it to snap either.

As for whether it's worth it, that depends on how much the car's worth (obviously) but also how much it will cost to replace it. Don't forget you still have to pay the garage.
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They're a decent garage, I have used them before. Italian fella runs it with about 3 other mechanics. Their not cheap and the dreaded VAT is a bind but I do trust them.
 
ST4 said:
Get a quote but a car toy know the history on is better than scraping it then having to find another one and fix it too
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not necessarily. Known evil need not be lesser evil

Maybe look for a well-maintained old BMW 7-series. They will be sold off purely because they are old and not economical.
 
daugirdas said:
weigh up the costs, but likely you may just have to consider a VW / Skoda next. PSA cars don't particularly shine in the longevity department, and their engines require the exact specification oil for servicing. Many garages put in generic stuff which leads to injector and turbo failure over time.
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You do realise injectors don't run on engine oil don't you. Any lubrication will come from the diesel fuel. All engines should require the correct specification regardless of manufacturer, oil lubricates, cools and the pressure maintains running gaps between bearing faces as well as operating some engine components
 
jakeblu said:
If only life was that simple. How many hours to take off the head and put it back together again, I'd hate to think at £40 +vat.

They're a decent garage, I have used them before. Italian fella runs it with about 3 other mechanics. Their not cheap and the dreaded VAT is a bind but I do trust them.
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£40 + vat is very cheap, you're looking at a minimum of £60+vat around here.
 
overbez said:
seriously? It's the OP's Mother-In-Law!

If she currently runs a little Citroen C3, what are the chances she'd be happy in a big 7 series?
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Yeah, I was just imagine her cruising the streets in her big black BMW 7-Series with Pitbull belting out on the radio ;)
 
Update on this :

Well she finally got the car back yesterday 15 days after it went in for its MOT.

It seems that the mechanic who was working on it knocked together some tool for getting out the bit of injector left in and they spent pretty much the last 8 days driving it till it warmed up then turning the tool half a turn. it fnally came out at the weekend. No mechanic was at it constantly, I just think they did it between jobs. Quick order from ebay for a recon injector and it was back home in her garden yesterday. Total bill £445, that included 2 bulbs, realignment of the headlights and a new rear tyre. They only charged me the 4 hours labour they originally quoted me. In this day and age where everyone seems to be trying to part you from as much of your money as possible its good to see there are still some honest traders. Well done ES Motors
 
Glad you got it sorted. Sounds like you've got a really good garage there. A garage that is happy to help customers keep the bill down, they couldve just said you needed a new head and that would not have been cheap
 
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