Are the B&W filters worth the extra £££'s?

jetpack

jetpack

Suspended / Banned
Messages
929
Name
Lyle
Edit My Images
No
Hi everyone,

I would like to purchase a polarizer filter and an ND +10 filter for my 17-40mm lens. I've had a look around and the following appear to be the best available but heck are they expensive!

B+W 77mm 110M Multi Coated +10 Stop Neutral Density Filter - F-PRO Mount

B + W 77mm Kasemann Circular Polarizer Filter Multi Resistant Coating

I'm a firm believer of buying quality and only buying once but £200 on filters seems a lot to me. Can anyone vouch for these filters, are they worth the money? Should I start on something cheaper?

I appreciate any advice on this.

JPJ
 
I can't comment on the polarisier but I had the same B+W 10 stopper you linked, a while back and it was great. Due to a shift in lenses however I sold it on.

However due to another shift in lenses I had a need to buy another one. This time I went with a cheaper Haida version. Can't say I have noticed any difference the Haida seems just as good and is less than half the price.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Haida-PRO...es_CameraLensesFilters_JN&hash=item3a7864ba0b

A few others on here use them as well.

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=337439
 
Right,

So the CPL was actually £7.

eBay link

*Link doesn't work - here's the item number* 280953601341

And here is it in action...

19818_567335849957120_620015623_n.jpg


And the link for the 10stop @ £18:

Here.

17523_10152579813070305_952199412_n.jpg


I have never bought an expensive filter and don't plan to after never seeing any visible degradation in cheaper filters.
 
Last edited:
Sorry Phil, the CPL link is missing. Also do you have a higher res of the image I can look at, does look pretty decent but at 960 there's a lot in the resize.
 
Love my B+W 10 stopper. The colour cast is easily corrected, but quite interesting at times for example:
HQHSwrX.jpg
 
Phil, have you compared these "budget filters" against the more expensive ones i.e B&W Hoya's etc ?
you say you have never bought one (expensive filter) ..just wondered what you base your findings on .. i'm also in the market for a couple of filters to use on an up and coming trip so would be interested in seeing if i could save a few quid
 
Rolex said:
Phil, have you compared these "budget filters" against the more expensive ones i.e B&W Hoya's etc ?
you say you have never bought one (expensive filter) ..just wondered what you base your findings on .. i'm also in the market for a couple of filters to use on an up and coming trip so would be interested in seeing if i could save a few quid
Click to expand...

I have a haida so mid range on my LX7 and a hoya UV on my 18-200mm.

There is no visible difference between those and cheaper stuff.

I don't know what I could possibly looking for that would be worth the extra money?

It is as razor sharp, vibrant colours & blocks out as much polarising light as expected.

I have no bassis for comparison on my filters but that does not make it any different: my filters are very good and I wouldn't even entertain the thought of spending near or over £100 on a filter.

I understand others wouldn't touch the cheap stuff which could be classed as ignorant or they just really like their expensive filters...either way, my way of thinking was that I wouldn't mind spending £7 on a rubbish product but I think twice before spending £100.

No brainer for me: try and see if you like. If you don't you haven't lose much.
 
Last edited:
Thanks again for the input and discussion guys, this is the quandary I find myself in. Phil, your shots look great - really good colours. However, it would be interesting to see what kind of benefit I would get from forking out the £100+.
 
Phil Young said:
I have a haida so mid range on my LX7 and a hoya UV on my 18-200mm.

There is no visible difference between those and cheaper stuff.

I don't know what I could possibly looking for that would be worth the extra money?

It is as razor sharp, vibrant colours & blocks out as much polarising light as expected.

I have no bassis for comparison on my filters but that does not make it any different: my filters are very good and I wouldn't even entertain the thought of spending near or over £100 on a filter.

I understand others wouldn't touch the cheap stuff which could be classed as ignorant or they just really like their expensive filters...either way, my way of thinking was that I wouldn't mind spending £7 on a rubbish product but I think twice before spending £100.

No brainer for me: try and see if you like. If you don't you haven't lose much.
Click to expand...

Thanks Phil, ..might just try the cheaper ones ...as you say not much to lose
 
jetpackjack said:
Thanks again for the input and discussion guys, this is the quandary I find myself in. Phil, your shots look great - really good colours. However, it would be interesting to see what kind of benefit I would get from forking out the £100+.
Click to expand...

IMHO, Hoya HD is the best polariser mainly because it's half a stop lighter than most others and the multi-coating is very good and water resistant. Most filter coatings will stain if you let water dry on them.

B+W's MRC multi-coating is also excellent. Best value is perhaps Marumi Super DHG, also excellent water resistant multi-coating. There is no difference in polarising ability between filters - exactly the same effect regardless.

B+W's MRC ten stopper is the best extreme ND I've tried, mainly because of very good control of infrared polution, though most others run it very close. They all have a slight colour cast so you have to correct for really accurate colour balance anyway. Haida's MkII 3.0 ND is very good and a relative bargain. Hoya, LightCraftWorkshop, Heliopan, Lee - also very good.

Generally filters don't affect sharpness unless they're poor quality and used on a long lens that magnifies imperfections.
 
HoppyUK said:
IMHO, Hoya HD is the best polariser mainly because it's half a stop lighter than most others and the multi-coating is very good and water resistant. Most filter coatings will stain if you let water dry on them.

B+W's MRC multi-coating is also excellent. Best value is perhaps Marumi Super DHG, also excellent water resistant multi-coating. There is no difference in polarising ability between filters - exactly the same effect regardless.

B+W's MRC ten stopper is the best extreme ND I've tried, mainly because of very good control of infrared polution, though most others run it very close. They all have a slight colour cast so you have to correct for really accurate colour balance anyway. Haida's MkII 3.0 ND is very good and a relative bargain. Hoya, LightCraftWorkshop, Heliopan, Lee - also very good.

Generally filters don't affect sharpness unless they're poor quality and used on a long lens that magnifies imperfections.
Click to expand...

That's good info.

So basically if you're careful then there's not a huge benefit in more expensive brands???
 
I own a expensive hoya cpl and also another cheaper hoya cpl, I can see a noticeable, difference between the 2, I use my b&w 110 very regular it's outstanding but cannot compare it to cheaper big stoppers as III never used one (unless welding glass counts?)
 
Phil Young said:
That's good info.

So basically if you're careful then there's not a huge benefit in more expensive brands???
Click to expand...

Not really. You can't always 'be careful' because the subject decides that, but an awareness of the potential problems can help.

There are two basic issues, one being the particular effect the filter has, and then the undesirable side-effects of image degradation that can occur with all filters.

Then there are two aspects to the side effects. The first is flare and ghosting that you'll probably only notice in strong back-lighting or when there are bright light sources in the image, like street lights, headlights, or a sunset. Coating and multi-coating, particularly on the rear surface helps a lot with this, but doesn't eliminate it.

The other aspect is sharpness, but that's only an issue with poor quality filters used on longer lenses. Resin filters like grads are often prone to sharpness problems, but here you're unlikely to use them on long lenses if only because they have almost zero effect. Stacking grads, or any other kind of filter, is never a good idea if it can be avoided.

FWIW, my basic rule is always to get the best quality filter (not always the most expensive) and only use it when needed. In the right situation, the benefit and effect of the filter far outweighs the potential side issues, even if they're noticeable. But as for protection and UV filters that stay on all the time, I can't be doing with those at all. I have protection filters, but only use them when needed - sea spray is the main one for me, horrible stuff, or flying mud at a rally or something. But I always use a lens hood, if only to keep my own sticky fingers off the glass (finger prints are death to image quality and flare).

And I'm not afraid to give my lenses a good clean now and then. They're meant to be cleaned and the surfaces are much tougher than most folks imagine - been doing that for decades. Blower to remove any bits, then microfibre cloth and a bit of breathing. Very rarely a tiny drop cleaning fluid, from opticians, or sensor cleaning fluid.
 
1) That BW KSM CPL will cause some nice vignetting on wideangles such as 17-40mm and 24-70mm. You'd need a low profile one, something like Hoya HD.
Regular Pro1 CPL will scratch very easily.

2) CPL is actually not that useful on 17-40mm. You will not be able to use it for sky at wider settings, unless you fancy some really weird darkening over parts of sky. It's mostly for waterfalls, water, etc. The 35-40mm is fine though.

3) you want multicoated filters ideally. That rules out cheapest ebay stuff, but it also means that the difference between Hoya HMC and the most expensive BW is not as big as the price.
 
daugirdas said:
1) That BW KSM CPL will cause some nice vignetting on wideangles such as 17-40mm and 24-70mm. You'd need a low profile one, something like Hoya HD.
Regular Pro1 CPL will scratch very easily.

2) CPL is actually not that useful on 17-40mm. You will not be able to use it for sky at wider settings, unless you fancy some really weird darkening over parts of sky. It's mostly for waterfalls, water, etc. The 35-40mm is fine though.

3) you want multicoated filters ideally. That rules out cheapest ebay stuff, but it also means that the difference between Hoya HMC and the most expensive BW is not as big as the price.
Click to expand...

Why do people say that? Yes, you can get a darker area in the sky as the polarising effect varies across the very wide view that the lens sees, but...
- You may not get it, depends on the angle of the sun, usually most noticeable when the sun is very low, much less or not at all at other times.
- Even when it's noticeable, it often doesn't matter, concealed by clouds or other aspects of the image. Sometimes it even looks nice.
- If you don't like it, tone it down by rotating the filter, or remove the filter altogether if you like, and you've lost nothing.

Polariser lives on my 17-40, and stays there maybe 75% of the time.
 
Last edited:
Naphta said:
id be surprised if it doesn't, none of the high end ones dont have one.
Click to expand...

Yes, they all have cast of some sort, even if it's slight, almost unnoticeable or even looks nice.

The most neutral I'm aware of is the Haida Mk2, but the best ten stopper I've tested (and that's most of them) is the B+W that has a light orange cast. The difference being, it has the flatest spectral response so when the cast is removed, all colours are correct.

Most are pretty good though, and the only one I couldn't get an acceptably accurate result from is the HiTech Pro-Stop that has infrared polution issues. I believe there is a new IR version of this one now available that's improved.

A colour cast is only a problem when used in combination with another filter like an ND Grad because when the ND's cast is removed, it introduces the opposite colour to the Grad area.
 
I wanted to see how much colour was lost in mine so I took two shots to show the cast & sharpness.

Results below, first image in both the full and crop will be 10 stop.

3520_10152602122225305_804667333_n.jpg

574592_10152602122480305_2058157362_n.jpg


Crop:

18126_10152602121980305_533577285_n.jpg

525517_10152602122230305_1879632247_n.jpg


Shot at ISO400, f5. Tokina 12-24mm f4

Remember the thread question: is the expensive filters really worth the extra £££'s???
 
Thanks for the input everyone, it seems there isn't a huge difference between the cheaper and the more expensive ND filters. I think I'll opt for something mid-range for now - Haida's MkII 3.0 ND. :thumbs:
 
The value of an item depends on how much use you are going to get out of it.

I see value in CPL, so bought Hoya HD, not quite enough value to invest in B&W because the lack of sun in UK.

I don't see as much value in 10 stopper, so bought a Haida.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top