Are Microsoft Insane?

swanseamale47 said:
Ahh of course when anything doesn't work it's always operator error, thats why computer shops are making good money swapping out vista for XP.
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Too right is it:lol:

But on a serious note, the issues you experienced are not the norm, so it's obviously not all down to the OS. That's why I was curious as to whether it was on new hardware or not. 32bit or 64? Had the hardware manufacturers released new drivers, etc. Software doesn't have drivers, but often programs simply need to be ran as administrator or in XP compatibility mode if they refuse to load on the first double click in Vista (I had a mate with a similar rant and when I showed him what I meant...it was a case of "oh...I see..well why didn't they tell me that?!")

The reason Mac will work instanly...is you by an OS built to run on that exact hardware. That alone does not mean that the OS is inherently better.

You can't install OSX on any hardware you choose (OSX86 project aside, of course), so does that make it bad? (devils advocate here ;) )

Users going back to XP is going to be largely down to performance of under powered machines with Vista, which has already been touched on in this thread.

My Vista 64 machine was far more stable than my old XP machine ever was, but it was running on pretty beefy hardware.

Anyway, that's my Vista defence rant over :lol:
 
is microsoft really bringing out a new version already? it hasnet even been more than 4 years since vista?
 
gavner said:
is microsoft really bringing out a new version already? it hasnet even been more than 4 years since vista?
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Yep, Vista has been a huge flop over all.

Business uptake has been extremely low, and so many home users wanted XP, they started a "downgrade" scheme!
 
chrisuk said:
Business uptake has been extremely low, and so many home users wanted XP, they started a "downgrade" scheme!
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we havent taken it on, mainly due to the cost of upgrading desktops. cant see us upgrading to W7 in a hurry either again due to the cost of replacing hardware.

thats going to be the main reason for the downgrade scheme.
 
neo2810 said:
Matt, you're biased. You can't hold a serious argument when your perspective is completely one sided.

Windows 7 easily rivals OSX (I've used both extensively) and the pricing was rumoured by Microsoft to be set to make it affordable to the consumer market. The figures have not yet been released but the rumour is that the Home edition of Win 7 will retail at under £100 with Premium and Ultimate editions running a little higher. Your magazine appears to contradict that so who do you believe? Let's just wait and see before we shoot MS down in flames hey?

The situation is that both MS and Apple make very good products in their own right. Apple has the edge (although not for much longer it seems) on video and graphics editing, and MS has the edge on gaming/general computing. The lines are now converging though and it's down to personal preference. I'll take a PC over a Mac any day of the week right now, but in time that opinion may change.
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Thats a very condescending way of putting it.

My opinion is not one sided. Its my opinion. I have used both extensively. Was with windows for the last 10yrs or more.
 
Windows Vista/Windows 7 main competition isn't OS x or linux, it's Windows XP.

Businesses have forced MS to continue support, now untill 2011 and people like and trust it.
 
i've only just gone to vista HP x64 (new pc (i7)) so wont be upgrading for another 5+ years i guess
 
Well they have just released the price of Windows 7 Ultimate and it is going to be £229.99 or a "special" price of £199.99 till new year. I think their pricing is a bit on the high side, you can buy a family pack (5 licences) for Leopard plus iLife plus iWorks for LESS. I think they are going to find their market share reducing further. Snow Leopard is reportedly going to be cheaper than Leopard. I have a PC so would normally upgrade but I might just give it a miss this time. I have had every version since 3.11 other than ME (98 SE the second!)
 
Woops, prices were in dollars :)

Here are the correct prices:

Windows 7 Home Premium (Upgrade): $119.99
Windows 7 Professional (Upgrade): $199.99
Windows 7 Ultimate (Upgrade): $219.99

And the estimated retail prices for full packaged retail product of Windows 7 in the U.S. are:

Windows 7 Home Premium (Full): $199.99
Windows 7 Professional (Full): $299.99
Windows 7 Ultimate (Full): $319.99

This would suggest a Windows pro upgrade price of about £129 inc vat but the ultimate and pro prices are only $20 apart anyway so about £12. Yes they are offering a cheaper price till christmas but the price is still too high in my opinion when you compare it to MacOS which is £83 retail for the full version without it being an upgrade. This isn't a mac v pc thing just a price thing. Lets hope they do get the price down to £99 or less.
 
I just can't remember where I read it at the moment, but I'm sure I saw that OUTSIDE Europe the upgrade from Premium/Ultimate versions of Vista are going to be FREE.
 
neil_g said:
rofl, i love these threads.

your average user doesnt care about the cost of an OS when it comes bundled with a computer. and the cost of apples hardware puts a lot of average users off.

same would apply to hardware for businesses. there is no point putting your average admin/office bod on a mac, it wouldnt be cost effective for what is basically work processing.
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and with parents buying computers as well, if a schools runs PCs then the parents is automatically going to be inclined to buying a PC over a mac for the simple reason that it will be easier for their children and they wont incur any compatability issues with programs.


as for the ipod and iphone making me want to buy a mac, no thanks, i do like ipods and iphones but not keen on the macs, very expensive imho and amusingly despite being aparently bulletproof i managed to crash one within 20seconds of using it, i dont think ive ever managed such a feat on a windows machine :)




as for windows 7, why is it windows 7?

3 - windows 3.1
4 - windows 95
5 - windows 98
6 - windows ME
7 - Windows 2K
8 - windows XP
9 - windows vista
surely it must be windows 10?
(OR are we lumping 95, 98 and ME together? as a single step?)




as usual ill be waiting to upgrade, only just got windows fairylights vista, i like to be like a nice cheese, 3 years out of date :)
 
cowasaki said:
Woops, prices were in dollars :)

Here are the correct prices:

Windows 7 Home Premium (Upgrade): $119.99
Windows 7 Professional (Upgrade): $199.99
Windows 7 Ultimate (Upgrade): $219.99

And the estimated retail prices for full packaged retail product of Windows 7 in the U.S. are:

Windows 7 Home Premium (Full): $199.99
Windows 7 Professional (Full): $299.99
Windows 7 Ultimate (Full): $319.99

This would suggest a Windows pro upgrade price of about £129 inc vat but the ultimate and pro prices are only $20 apart anyway so about £12. Yes they are offering a cheaper price till christmas but the price is still too high in my opinion when you compare it to MacOS which is £83 retail for the full version without it being an upgrade. This isn't a mac v pc thing just a price thing. Lets hope they do get the price down to £99 or less.
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But as I mentioned before, people have paid a premium for the ability to use OSX in the first place. Once that price (of up to £500-600) has been added on the whole windows system is still actually cheaper. Admittedly if you upgrade multiple times on a mac the original lump sum cost at the start will be watered down but I can't see mac users upgrading their OS on a single pc for more 2-3 versions so that isn't really affected.

As for the prices, they look reasonably cheap to me, compared to Vistas, however it all depends what the exchange rate does to them, probably along the lines of them being more in pounds than dollars...:thumbsdown:
 
Blah, blah, blah.

As the reply to the OP basically said... the vast majority of users get Windows with a new computer. The cost of a retail copy of Windows 7 is irrelevant.

Despite Apple's impressive sales growth over the last couple of years, Macs are still pretty niche and generally owned by more... cerebral types (I was going to say nerdish). Anyway, owned by the sort of person who would be willing cough up every year or so for a fairly incremental update to an OS.

Time to close this thread, methinks!
 
SteveA said:
Blah, blah, blah.

As the reply to the OP basically said... the vast majority of users get Windows with a new computer. The cost of a retail copy of Windows 7 is irrelevant.

Despite Apple's impressive sales growth over the last couple of years, Macs are still pretty niche and generally owned by more... cerebral types (I was going to say nerdish). Anyway, owned by the sort of person who would be willing cough up every year or so for a fairly incremental update to an OS.

Time to close this thread, methinks!
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I would be interested to see what percentage of both MacOS and Windows users upgrade but I bet its not too different - most people like the latest thing. As for being incremental..... 95 > 98 > ME !!

I use both so will buy both but I will be getting an OEM version
 
dont forget 97% of computer users have windows which in theory means he doesnt have to charge exortionate amounts for software not to mention having all the packages to choose from. i think windows need to a take a leaf out of macs book (haha little pun there) and create an OS that looks better than the mac (or as good as). if anything mac should be overprcing there OS because they only own 3%. what a world we live in.
 
We have both systems in our family...

We use a mac for music editing in the studio, and a PC for everything else. In the business world, mac will never gain a foothold over PC's especially in corporate companies. No company would ever pay to shift its infrastructure over to a non proved business platform... active directory has the market sown up methinks ;)

IMO mac's are very niche products designed for a specific purpose... the only thing I personally think they have over PC's is the design of the systems. they look great in the house, where as my tower case looks like a geeks toy... always been the way.

The PC / Mac debate is as old as the ark, and Mac's are always "going to overtake microsoft".... it will never happen though, not unless something major happens to MS at a core business/strategy level

Its almost as old as the linux lovers slating ms products as "buggy crap"....

And this pic really sums that old debate up for me :)

Linux+-+Demotivational+poster.jpg
 
Just a quick point about the vendor upgrades and pre-order versions of Windows 7.

Most of them are listed as Windows 7 Home Premium/Ultimate/Professional E

This version requires a clean install and does not come with an Internet Browser.

Important: Windows 7 Home Premium E, Windows 7 Professional E and Windows Ultimate E do not contain an Internet browser. We recommend you obtain an Internet browser from Microsoft or a third party, and have the application available on CD/DVD or other device to install after Windows 7 installation completes.
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old news.
it's all due to the EU regulations and anti monopolies bolox

I don't know why they can't just ask MS to link people as directed.
I think there is something like this in there when you install but if in doubt, back everything up and shove your favourite browser on a pendrive.
 
DizMatt said:
old news.
it's all due to the EU regulations and anti monopolies bolox

I don't know why they can't just ask MS to link people as directed.
I think there is something like this in there when you install but if in doubt, back everything up and shove your favourite browser on a pendrive.
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In fact, it's now so old it's wrong too because in one of the most illogical moves ever, Windows 7 E will in fact include IE anyway and will present you with a browser choice 'ballot screen' as MS are calling it :cuckoo:

As far as I know though, there is still no upgrade capability, which seems odd, as that was really the only reason cited for not being able to do an upgrade version.
 
divine` said:
In fact, it's now so old it's wrong too because in one of the most illogical moves ever, Windows 7 E will in fact include IE anyway and will present you with a browser choice 'ballot screen' as MS are calling it :cuckoo:

As far as I know though, there is still no upgrade capability, which seems odd, as that was really the only reason cited for not being able to do an upgrade version.
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at this late stage they would need to completely re-write and re author all of the disks..
 
I use vista business for this stuff, and my iMac for real things ;)
 
neil_g said:
at this late stage they would need to completely re-write and re author all of the disks..
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Well if they're changing to include IE instead of not, they could just as easily press some upgrade discs surely?
 
Well they wouldn't need to re-write much would they? They have an upgrade version in the USA, tweaking that to be called E and have the ballot screen is no more hardship than adding IE back in to a retail or OEM copy.

It doesn't really affect me as I wouldn't want to do an upgrade anyway, never the best way to change OS but I don't really see why they can't do it now.
 
I suppose, now they've already done their low price offers with full retail copies here, why release the upgrade after, more money if everyone has to get full retail.
 
divine` said:
In fact, it's now so old it's wrong too because in one of the most illogical moves ever, Windows 7 E will in fact include IE anyway and will present you with a browser choice 'ballot screen' as MS are calling it :cuckoo:

As far as I know though, there is still no upgrade capability, which seems odd, as that was really the only reason cited for not being able to do an upgrade version.
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That's only a proposal to try to minimise the impact on the end user.

It's still waiting for EU approval.
 
I can't see it not getting approved, the EU never stipulated they had to completely remove it in the first place. Just that they had to provide some kind of choice.
 
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