Are Microsoft Insane?

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princeclan

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Matt
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Just picked up a magazine and in the first few pages its on about Windows 7 is coming out officially on October 22nd. No pricing has been set but its expected to be slightly more expensive than Vista was.

Vista was over £350 for the ultimate retail!!

Apple on the other hand is about £50 and they are offering it as £25 upgrade for recent leopard buyers.

MASSIVE DIFFERENCE!

All this will do is make more people go over to Apple (im one of em). They must be stupid. :cuckoo:
 
isnt MS stuff normally bundled with pcs though? so the majority of buyers prob just buy the comp and find the operating platform already there. dunno, used macs for ages never had to look at MS
 
The basic version and the homepremium version probably yeah. Snow leopard will be bundled with new macs too. i just think for people who dont want a new pc why sting them for such a ridiculous amount of money in these financial times when apple can do it so cheap?

Matt
 
And Microsoft (and others) wonder why there is so much software piracy. I think it is closely related to pricing lunacy.
 
Part of the reason is because Apple control both the hardware and software sides then its much easier to write an OS. PC hardware could be a mixture of lots of different things with lots of different processors, motherboards and so on.

I think there is a lot of licensing issues with Microsoft as well that Apple do not have.
 
Yeah possibly. But the average consumer wont realise/care about that and will just see pound signs. Apple reported a 30%+ growth last year. Microsoft under 10%

They will get overtaken eventually i think
 
Doubt it. Whilst I'm an Apple user and like OSX it will take years to break Microsofts stranglehold.

A lot of people stayed with XP rather than upgrading to Vista. Win7 seems to be all the things Vista should have been from the start so I would imagine a lot of late adopters will upgrade.

A lot of people just buy a preconfigured computer and will look at the bottom line price - hardware & OS, or will buy an OEM version of the OS - Vista Home Ultimate OEM is around £ 110 when bought with hardware, and the basic version is £ 55.
 
I know it would take years but without the business side microsoft would struggle in as little as 5yrs imo.

If businesses started to use osx i think microsoft would be doomed.
 
Well if Apple are growing 20% more than microsoft every year (unlikely but not possible) then it could happen.
 
even if apple continue that growth it'll take a long time to catch up, overtake then draw away from MS. Thats even assuming growth doesn't plateau
 
The stats don't say that though. It says that Apple increased its sales by 30% and Microsoft increased its sales by 10%. You can't subtract one from the other!

It I wrote an OS and sold one copy in the first year, and 5 in the 2nd year I could claim a 500% increase, but it doesn't mean I'll knock Microsoft off the number 1 spot in year 3.
 
I didnt use them figures. I read on the internet that apple had grown by 30% last year. Figures aside i see apple growing much bigger than they are now.
 
princeclan said:
I didnt use them figures. I read on the internet that apple had grown by 30% last year. Figures aside i see apple growing much bigger than they are now.
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How much of Apples growth is due to their computers and not due to the iphone and ipod ranges?
 
I think its all relevant though. Iphones and ipod make people want to go and buy a mac. It did for me. Im living proof of that. They make you want to have apple products full stop
 
princeclan said:
I think its all relevant though. Iphones and ipod make people want to go and buy a mac. It did for me. Im living proof of that. They make you want to have apple products full stop
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But we're talking about areas of Apple's growth, not how good the iphone/ipod are. If I thought the Xbox was awesome, it wouldn't necessarily make me go out and buy a Windows PC.
 
xbox is different. There is something about apples products that creates a stir on excitement. Tell me 1 microsoft product that does that? if someone buys an iphone they see how simplistic, powerful, elegant it is and are more inclined to buy a mac than a pc. thats my opinion but im sure everyone has their own.

Matt
 
The actual original post was on about why microsoft are mad at overpricing their os. If they are losing people to apple now (albeit at a slow rate) by overcharging it is going to lessen the gap between pc's and supposedly overpriced apple computers.
 
princeclan said:
xbox is different. There is something about apples products that creates a stir on excitement. Tell me 1 microsoft product that does that? if someone buys an iphone they see how simplistic, powerful, elegant it is and are more inclined to buy a mac than a pc. thats my opinion but im sure everyone has their own.

Matt
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Well yes, it is your opinion and seems to be based on your obvious love for Apple products, but the Xbox analogy is still valid as there are plenty of people out there who feel the same way about their favourite games console.

As said, we would need to establish where Apple's growth is before we look at how much of a threat they are in the OS market. For all we know, the growth in Macs could be only 5% and they could be falling behind Microsoft in that respect. It would certainly be interesting to see the figures.
 
Yes you could.

You would be breaking the terms of the license agreement though as it says you can install OS X on Apple hardware only.

Google Hackintosh.

Comparing Apple to Microsoft is difficult. They both provide operating systems. Microsoft make some hardware - keyboards and mice, but don't sell whole systems. They don't sell phones and Apple doesn't sell games consoles.
 
andrewc said:
Yes you could.

You would be breaking the terms of the license agreement though as it says you can install OS X on Apple hardware only.

Google Hackintosh.

Comparing Apple to Microsoft is difficult. They both provide operating systems. Microsoft make some hardware - keyboards and mice, but don't sell whole systems. They don't sell phones and Apple doesn't sell games consoles.
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Not if you live in Germany it wouldnt according to google as its not valid in that country. thats why there is that court case over it:thinking:
 
princeclan said:
Not if you live in Germany it wouldnt according to google as its not valid in that country. thats why there is that court case over it:thinking:
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Its a tentative claim through a loophole in German law, stemming that because the EULA isn't readable before purchase, then its exempt in Germany, although the EULA can be read on Apples Website (http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx105.pdf)

The court case isn't over yet is it? Therefore its legality hasn't been established, only challenged. I notice the other commercial Hackintosh provider Psystar has filed for US bankruptcy protection.
 
Haven't seen the latest figures but most of Apples growth last year came from iPhone iPod and similar sales.

Maybe with the latest generation of laptops just announced that may help as well.

Apple also have a very positive bank balance and no real dept.
 
rofl, i love these threads.

your average user doesnt care about the cost of an OS when it comes bundled with a computer. and the cost of apples hardware puts a lot of average users off.

same would apply to hardware for businesses. there is no point putting your average admin/office bod on a mac, it wouldnt be cost effective for what is basically work processing.

im 99% sure that the cost of MS upgrades compared to Apple is something to do with them being forced to (Read the windows 7 and IE thread i think).
 
Microsoft's biggest problem is being too successful. Anti-competitive laws in the states ensure MS need to have competition. I believe they even help Apple.

I am sure they would rather sell less and make the same profit. It would seem that they were not as dominant.

But you can be sure they know exactly what they are doing ;)

Graham
 
not to mention existing apps that are not mac compatible that are fully integrated into millions of pounds worth of systems backbones. and existing microsoft server based environments, yes i know macs can be made to be semi seamless on windows server but its not 100% effective in my opinion.
 
see i dont get these anti competitive laws going in favour of apple. how are they getting away with their EULA of not letting you install OSX on anything thats non-apple for example..
 
neil_g said:
see i dont get these anti competitive laws going in favour of apple. how are they getting away with their EULA of not letting you install OSX on anything thats non-apple for example..
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because Apple only have 10% of the overall market compared to Windows with 88% of the market. Microsoft has a majority and an effective monopoly. The other 2% is Linux, mobile phones and browsers on games consoles accessing the web.
 
If it comes to that I can just see Apple not selling standalone copies of OS X, that way they won't be selling a OS, they will be selling a product which the OS is just a part of.
 
"Hmm, well if Windows 7 Ultimate is £350....I may as well just spend the extra £1000 and get a Mac!!"

;)

One thing that's also been overlooked are the cheaper upgrade versions, technet subscriptions and the MSDN Academic Alliance, etc. Many people will be on the best version of Windows 7 without paying anywhere near the full retail price.
 
Everybody I know is switching over, it's not so much the pricing as reliability, Macs just seem to work for the most part, whereas Windows is a pain in the backside, and don't get me started on Vista!
 
swanseamale47 said:
Everybody I know is switching over, it's not so much the pricing as reliability, Macs just seem to work for the most part, whereas Windows is a pain in the backside, and don't get me started on Vista!
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Apple have always had a great advantage. They can control the hardware and design the software to run on a relatively small number of machines. It's much easier to test.

I have always had macs and once you buy into a system, it's harder to change. Same for cameras actually.

Is Nikon better than Canon, are macs better than PC's. Just different flavours really.

Graham
 
swanseamale47 said:
Everybody I know is switching over, it's not so much the pricing as reliability, Macs just seem to work for the most part, whereas Windows is a pain in the backside, and don't get me started on Vista!
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Funny, I've been using Windows for many years and never really had issues ;) Yes it's gone wrong from time to time and made me pull my hair out..but then so have other OS's.

I liked Vista. But out of the box it was a beast that needed a bit of taming.

Having said that, if I could justify a macbook, or imac, i'd have one!
 
Having said that, if I could justify a macbook, or imac, i'd have one!

Hence why i think Apple will continue to grow up to the point they will rival microsoft. They have the wow factor. Can you think of anyone that would make the above comment about microsoft?

Matt
 
swanseamale47 said:
Everybody I know is switching over, it's not so much the pricing as reliability, Macs just seem to work for the most part, whereas Windows is a pain in the backside, and don't get me started on Vista!
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whats wrong with vista, im running it 100% stable. no offence but if everyone you know is having problems with reliability then something is wrong with their system, either with the install some software bug within an application or a hardware issue. macs can and do crash just as much as windows in my IT support experience.

seriously who needs a "wow factor" from an operating system? id rather it just did what i wanted without having to be bullied into doing so.

oh and in my opinion osx will never be as big as windows unless apple open it up to non apple hardware.
 
princeclan said:
Having said that, if I could justify a macbook, or imac, i'd have one!

Hence why i think Apple will continue to grow up to the point they will rival microsoft. They have the wow factor. Can you think of anyone that would make the above comment about microsoft?

Matt
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This is true, it gives a great wow factor but this is somewhat offset when people see the pricetag of that shiny macbook pro they saw on the telly :lol:

Still though..I think they will have a while to go before they can rival MS in the home and business computer markets. You can nip to PC world and pick up a PC or Laptop with windows on it these days for under 300 quid! Cheapest Mac is what....3 times that?

I don't think wow factor alone is enough to get massive growth. Cost effectiveness is a big deal, especially in the current climate!
 
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