are Buzzards really a pest?

I have a friend who is a gamekeeper and he thinks so. We had the discussion just last week.

He also thinks Red Kites, foxes, squirrels and just about everything else flying or walking over his land other than pheasants are pests.

He still likes his boss though who every year invites 30 odd mates or rich paying guest to come and shoot all the pheasants he has reared.

Makes you wonder what shoot the Judge goes to each year with his mates.
 
there are lots in France ...... surprisingly enough they are a bird that hunters never seem to shoot, (I am now aware that French farmers shoot them) .......... two reasons, a). they are obviously not good to eat and, b). presumably they do not kill anything that the hunters are interested in shooting to eat

seems a crazy decision not to control how we treat wildlife ..... and the decision in general is a backward step .............no one benefits from that

IMHO
 
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The W said:
Quite frankly, if your business is only viable by killing the local bird of prey population, your business is neither viable nor morally justifiable.
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What if your in the business of free range hens / free range eggs?
 
mark richards said:
I cannot really comment on these birds, we have plenty of buzzards in wales ,they never seem to be a pest , there are mostly only hill farmers, around here, (sheep & cows) no poultry or game birds ..
so just wondered if these are a pest to game birds?..
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I thought that they ate small birds, small rodents, insects, stuff in the ground etc.,
 
but how are they supposed to harm farmers or land owners?

admitted there are quite a lot around as there do not seem to have any natural enemies apart from humans
 
BillN_33 said:
but how are they supposed to harm farmers or land owners?
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I always understood they didn't. Like any predator they can only thrive as part of a healthy eco system and they help maintain that system
 
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This guy - almost sure it is a Buzzard, was watching over the Starlings this afternoon

starlings_21.jpg
 
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PINNACLE said:
I have a friend who is a gamekeeper and he thinks so. We had the discussion just last week.

He also thinks Red Kites, foxes, squirrels and just about everything else flying or walking over his land other than pheasants are pests.

He still likes his boss though who every year invites 30 odd mates or rich paying guest to come and shoot all the pheasants he has reared.

Makes you wonder what shoot the Judge goes to each year with his mates.
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Head on Nail (y)
 
Bit of hypocrisy on Natural England's part. Last year they issued a licence to an estate to destroy buzzards nests and eggs, which to me is the same as killing buzzards, to protect the stock being reared for a shoot.

The case was brought by the national gamekeepers association. The ngo came into being to defend and protect gamekeepers and to promote high standards as they felt that the public perception of gamekeepers was not very high.

Wonder were the public got that idea from then!!

Guess not many gamekeepers in Yorkshire are members either.
 
Very common around here, and so are red kites. I can see them at just about any time during the day, just by going outside or driving into town. There's always road kill which attracts them. No-one seems concerned about the buzzards, but there have been quite a lot of complaints about the kites, which were reintroduced a few years ago and have bred very well. Kites are scavengers and also eat invertebrates. They're not equipped for hunting, but I've seen a few letters to a local paper complaining about the risk to 'small dogs' and 'how long will it be before a child is attacked?'...:rolleyes:
 
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Pretty sure that pheasants are an introduced species so shouldn't be released into the wild... I know they've been here for many (many!) years but they're still not native.
 
Nod said:
Pretty sure that pheasants are an introduced species so shouldn't be released into the wild... I know they've been here for many (many!) years but they're still not native.
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Nope. Possibly introduced by the Romans, and common by the High Middle Ages.
 
However releasing 35 millions pheasants released every year isn't necessarily a ecologically sound thing to do. I believe there's an increasing amount of research that shows the release of high densities of pheasants has a significant impact on reptile populations.
 
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I think in this case the Judge made the correct decision. Natural England had agreed with him that the Buzzards were his problem. Their own technical advisors had recommended that he be issued with a license and that he had done everything possible. This was overruled at senior level. NE did not grant him a license to shoot them but had previously issued (limited) shoot to kill licenses to hundreds of other people in the country. It was also noted that they had never ever issued a license to a gamekeeper.

I think the law needs changing and I also think that Buzzards should be taken off the protected species list………….it’s not like we’re talking about Hen Harriers here.
 
I can remember when it was a rare sight to see a buzzard, even down here. Now, stacks of 5 or more aren't a rarity at certain times of year. Much happier seeing the stacks than spotting the rarity!
 
but why do they need to shoot them ....... what are they killing?
 
MartynK said:
which were reintroduced a few years ago
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From Spain mostly making them also a none indigenous species.

MartynK said:
they're not equipped for hunting,
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Wings check, beak check, talons check, yep its all there, but they are just too damned lazy, preferring to scavenge, if push came to shove though they'd kill in preference to dying from starvation.

MartynK said:
and 'how long will it be before a child is attacked?'...:rolleyes:
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Reported in a local-ish paper some months ago, a child had a sarnie nicked from their hands.
The people of Princess Risbrough started to feed them years ago, on scraps, so what do they expect?

One landfill I used to work bird control on, near the M40 / Beconsfield area, I'd see anything from 30-60 Red kites on any given day in the same (decent) thermal.
I had a couple stoop in at my 3/4 Gyr x saker at different times, there was definitely malice afore thought in their actions.

On one occasion, she flipped onto her back, "crabbed it" and dragged it to the ground,
Although her wing span was a little better than half theirs, she weight about the same (40 oz)
 
Cobra said:
, but they are just too damned lazy, preferring to scavenge,
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I remember out walking one day..when there was one hell of a commotion going on down in a small gully , couldn't see where the noise was coming from,
but recognized that it was a Peregrine screaming...I saw what it was all about after a few minutes,when a buzzard flew out carrying a dead pigeon ...
the perry wasn't very happy by the sounds...
 
admirable said:
I think in this case the Judge made the correct decision. Natural England had agreed with him that the Buzzards were his problem. Their own technical advisors had recommended that he be issued with a license and that he had done everything possible. This was overruled at senior level. NE did not grant him a license to shoot them but had previously issued (limited) shoot to kill licenses to hundreds of other people in the country. It was also noted that they had never ever issued a license to a gamekeeper.

I think the law needs changing and I also think that Buzzards should be taken off the protected species list………….it’s not like we’re talking about Hen Harriers here.
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That's the problem though Jim. Take them off and it's open season on them. Being protected doesn't seem to be any advantage if your a hen harrier in Yorkshire and other parts of the country were pheasants are reared.
 
mark richards said:
still looks like Sprawk...:)
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It has been suggested, (on the bird forum, by three people), that it is a Mistle Thrush, because of the white tips at the end of the outside tail feathers ............ the bird was quite large ......... much bigger than the Starlings

Mistle Thrush: 26-29cm; Starling: 19-22cm.
 
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Cobra said:
From Spain mostly making them also a none indigenous species.
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Most of the local ones came from previous reintroductions in other areas, some involving Scandinavian stock. White Tailed Eagles and beavers were also reintroduced and red squirrels - the ones everyone makes such a fuss about - were virtually wiped out in Scotland by the end of the C18th, reintroduced, and practically exterminated again because they were considered a pest. They were then reintroduced all over again. None of them can be considered indigenous, if direct descent from native stock is the benchmark, but I think there's some argument for regarding them as indigenous in the sense that their species is native to the UK. Next step lynx, wolves and large bears? I live in hope!

Wings check, beak check, talons check, yep its all there, but they are just too damned lazy, preferring to scavenge, if push came to shove though they'd kill in preference to dying from starvation.
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Yeah, I know. I put it badly. They're primarily scavengers, and also supplement their diet with worms and other invertebrates, but occasionally hunt. I do seem to remember something about their talons lacking the strength of other raptors though?


Reported in a local-ish paper some months ago, a child had a sarnie nicked from their hands.
The people of Princess Risbrough started to feed them years ago, on scraps, so what do they expect?
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Bit like feeding urban foxes? The people I'm talking about actually seem to fear that their small dogs and kids will be targeted and attacked as 'prey'. I can just imagine a red kite soaring off with a screaming child clutched in its talons!
 
MartynK said:
I do seem to remember something about their talons lacking the strength of other raptors though?
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I'd thought that as well. I'd understood they weren't strong enough to open most carcasses and needed something to help?
 
A good few round us (south), I see one in the woods round me all the time, seems to be knocking of pigeons as they feed in the undergrowth, I kept seeing piles of feathers and though the sly fox had been on the case, but no.
 
MartynK said:
Most of the local ones came from previous reintroductions in other areas, some involving Scandinavian stock.
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I personally know 2 people ( well I knew them at the time this was being carried out) who were largely instrumental in re-introducing them along the Bledlow ridge, which has now become known as the M40 corridor.
Its amazing how far they have actually spread in such a short (relatively) space of time.
Apparently they were Spanish stock, and far more successful than they ever imagined.
There are now whispers of a cull, but tell everyone I said that ;)
MartynK said:
Bit like feeding urban foxes?
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I'd say so.
MartynK said:
The people I'm talking about actually seem to fear that their small dogs and kids will be targeted and attacked as 'prey'. I can just imagine a red kite soaring off with a screaming child clutched in its talons!
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They see something with a 6 feet plus wing span, and expect it to be capable of lifting a small child. Yes they have a massive wing area, to enable them to soar in calm weather,
but as I mentioned above they only weigh about 40 oz doesn't add up does it? :D

And no way would an experienced killer, go after a dog / cat let alone a largely scavenging BoP. they, wouldn't risk the potential injury from a cats claws or even the smallest dogs teeth.
I do know that it the USA they use Female red tails / ferrugs, or indeed hybrids of the 2 to hunt feral cats, but they have to be trained and "wedded" to them. They don't take them naturally.

MartynK said:
Next step lynx, wolves and large bears? I live in hope!
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Again the whispers on the zoological grape vine one has been done, one is in the planning stage, the the third, can you imagine ? :D

MartynK said:
I do seem to remember something about their talons lacking the strength of other raptors though?
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boyfalldown said:
I'd thought that as well. I'd understood they weren't strong enough to open most carcasses and needed something to help?
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The talons are used to hold live prey or to carry carrion, to a safer location. Tis the beak that it used to kill ( by biting through the top few vertebrae and rip the flesh open. Occasionally, an inexperienced bird may go for the softer parts, but this doesn't kill immediately, and what ever bird is still at risk from injury, be that a kicking rabbit, staving its chest in, or a corvid / gull pecking its eyes out, ( sorry for being so graphic)
 
mark richards said:
I saw what it was all about after a few minutes,when a buzzard flew out carrying a dead pigeon ...
the perry wasn't very happy by the sounds...
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Yep being bigger and heavier, they'll rob another birds dinner, sometimes they even take the other BoP as well,
I guess the Pere, was unlucky, inasmuch it was not quick enough to either carry it away, or get into deep cover to eat it.
 
mark richards said:
I remember out walking one day..when there was one hell of a commotion going on down in a small gully , couldn't see where the noise was coming from,
but recognized that it was a Peregrine screaming...I saw what it was all about after a few minutes,when a buzzard flew out carrying a dead pigeon ...
the perry wasn't very happy by the sounds...
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A member here who no longer posts because of the "friendliness" in the bird forum and a certain member in OOF has a set of shots of peregrines attacking and killing buzzards who intruded into their "urban" territory. Currently awaiting publication in a "learned tome" on the interactions between raptors.
 
Nod said:
A member here who no longer posts because of the "friendliness" in the bird forum and a certain member in OOF has a set of shots of peregrines attacking and killing buzzards who intruded into their "urban" territory. Currently awaiting publication in a "learned tome" on the interactions between raptors.
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Yes, probable would take buzzard out in air,but being a raptor,possibly wouldn't get in a argument on ground ,in-case it would get injured, many predators would rather give up pray than get injured...
BillN_33 said:
It has been suggested, (on the bird forum, by three people), that it is a Mistle Thrush, because of the white tips at the end of the outside tail feathers ............ the bird was quite large ......... much bigger than the Starlings

Mistle Thrush: 26-29cm; Starling: 19-22cm.
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its not mistle thrush!!! its a raptor....most probably a sprawk, kestrels would be more interested in voles and mice rather than birds....
 
mark richards said:
its not mistle thrush!!! its a raptor....most probably a sprawk, kestrels would be more interested in voles and mice rather than birds....
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That's what I thought because of the size and presents ..... but the "experts" say Mistle Thrush - I'll send you the link by PM just in case you are interested
 
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