Apple wins US court case over Samsung

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odd jim

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....and ordered to pay $1bn in damages for copying apple hardware and software patents and may be ordered to pull all Android handsets and tablets off the market!

Samsung are appealing but it's not looking good for them, could be disastrous for the firm. Far east firms always did have a back of copying good products!
 
Pocket change for Samsung and they'll just tweak the device to not infringe on the patents. Won't make a difference.
 
$1bn might be pocket change but I would think its more about future production and sales for Samsung, especially in the US... they are now going to get slapped with everything resembling a patent infringement and I would expect this will have an impact on Samsung phones/tabs in the future, costs will be higher for not as good a product..

love how Apple tried to do Samsung for the shape of their tabs :bonk: its like an orange trying to sue a grapefruit for being round.
 
joescrivens said:
Pocket change for Samsung and they'll just tweak the device to not infringe on the patents. Won't make a difference.
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Money wise I agree, but pulling the Galaxy Tabs and S2/3 off the shelves won't be good for them surely? The patents included software operation as well so it wouldn't be just a little tweak (btw, I'm sat on the toilet typing this!).

And, as a result of this, other manufacturers have also said they might not now use the Android OS...
 
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nickjohnwatson said:
Lol, just in case we were wondering, actually, I shouldn't mock, I'm doing the same :-/
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:)
 
odd jim said:
Money wise I agree, but pulling the Galaxy Tabs and S2/3 off the shelves won't be good for them surely? The patents included software operation as well so it wouldn't be just a little tweak (btw, I'm sat on the toilet typing this!).

And, as a result of this, other manufacturers have also said they might not now use the Android OS...
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And that's half the problem with the US patents system - a lot of the people who grant them know nothing about what they describe, and the patents end up knocking out all competition for a certain type of device.

No competition = less choice. :thumbsdown:
 
jokeruk said:
And that's half the problem with the US patents system - a lot of the people who grant them know nothing about what they describe, and the patents end up knocking out all competition for a certain type of device.

No competition = less choice. :thumbsdown:
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But on the flip side, it encourages innovation?
 
odd jim said:
(btw, I'm sat on the toilet typing this!).

And, as a result of this, other manufacturers have also said they might not now use the Android OS...
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:thinking: So other manufacturers are possibly not going to use Android because you are on the toilet :shrug:
 
cowasaki said:
:thinking: So other manufacturers are possibly not going to use Android because you are on the toilet :shrug:
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Lol, cause and effect!
 
joescrivens said:
Pocket change for Samsung and they'll just tweak the device to not infringe on the patents. Won't make a difference.
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That is so true. Nice to hear someone who we know loves apple make such a genuine comment.

It will push innovation hopefully.
 
This is pretty unbelievable. Apple makes product, another company makes product that is better, Apple doesn't like competition so sues other company for making rectangle product.

Instead of trying to kill competition with lawsuits, how about just make your products better?
 
joesmith said:
This is pretty unbelievable. Apple makes product, another company makes product that is better, Apple doesn't like competition so sues other company for making rectangle product.

Instead of trying to kill competition with lawsuits, how about just make your products better?
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If any Samsung models are in any way better than Apple products which I dispute (and I sell both ;)), then it will be due in large part to Samsung copying aspects of Apple products to shortcut innovation and fastback development.
 
2blue4u said:
If any Samsung models are in any way better than Apple products which I dispute (and I sell both ;)), then it will be due in large part to Samsung copying aspects of Apple products to shortcut innovation and fastback development.
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Samsung's flagship products are based on Android with added functions, none of which have been taken from Apple. You could argue that some aspects of Android are very similar to iOS, but a lot of features in iOS were first on Android (drop down status bar for example). And a lot of aspects of iOS could be found on previous devices.

I like a highly competitive market, it forces manufactures to make their products as good as can be, and trying to destroy competition by suing other companies because of ridiculous patents (such as a rectangle or slide to unlock) really p****s me off.
 
joesmith said:
Samsung's flagship products are based on Android with added functions, none of which have been taken from Apple. You could argue that some aspects of Android are very similar to iOS, but a lot of features in iOS were first on Android (drop down status bar for example). And a lot of aspects of iOS could be found on previous devices.

I like a highly competitive market, it forces manufactures to make their products as good as can be, and trying to destroy competition by suing other companies because of ridiculous patents (such as a rectangle or slide to unlock) really p****s me off.
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But it's been proven in court that significant copying has taken place, it's not just simple things like external designs, it's a lot of other things, including how the OS operates, which has made non Samsung Android manufacturers have a serious rethink, and may even go towards the windows 8 mobile OS.

I don't think it's about destroying the competition, Apple has taken over Microsoft as the worlds number 1 IT company, it more to do with protecting innovations they are rightly proud of.

Who can blame them? That's precisely why patents are taken out in the first place!
 
I disagree, it is most definitely about destroying competition. Heck, before Jobs died he said he wanted to destroy Android and would spend all of Apples money trying to do so.
And just because the court has come to that conclusion, doesn't mean it's right. The Jury could have been a bunch of Apple fans for all we know. And I wouldn't trust a single bit of Apple's evidence, seeing as they photoshopped the Samsung Galaxy Tab to make it look more like the iPad.
 
joesmith said:
Samsung's flagship products are based on Android with added functions, none of which have been taken from Apple. You could argue that some aspects of Android are very similar to iOS, but a lot of features in iOS were first on Android (drop down status bar for example). And a lot of aspects of iOS could be found on previous devices.
.
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You need to contact Samsung so they can have you as an expert witness for their appeal. After all a court of law decided that Samsung had infringed their patents. You need to be there to tell them they were wrong.

:D
 
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joescrivens said:
You need to contact Samsung so they can have you as an expert witness for their appeal. After all a court if law decided that Samsung had infringed their patents. You need to be there to tell them they were wrong.

:D
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Lol, I'll give 'em a call :lol:
 
This will be good for us consumers. More competition on the market place instead of attempting to make copies. Other manufacturers seem to be able to steer clear so why not Samsung.

Besides just take a look at the court papers, they were found guilty on lots of devices. And funnily enough not on rounded corners ;)
 
Just want to quickly add, just as an FYI and as a point to counter the argument that the court made this decision so it must be right, the case was thrown out of a UK court, and in South Korea the court came to the conclusion that they infringed each others patents (one apple patent infringed by Samsung, two Samsung ones infringed by Apple). Different decisions have been made elsewhere.

Quite frankly, I wish they'd all stop spending money on suing each other and spend it on their products...
 
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joesmith said:
Just want to quickly add, just as an FYI and as a point to counter the argument that the court made this decision so it must be right, the case was thrown out of a UK court, and in South Korea the court came to the conclusion that they infringed each others patents (one apple patent infringed by Samsung, two Samsung ones infringed by Apple). Different decisions have been made elsewhere.

Quite frankly, I wish they'd all stop spending money on suing each other and spend it on their products...
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How about it is right where it has jurisdiction in accordance with the local laws aligned with the protection their any party could have filed for...
 
joesmith said:
Just want to quickly add, just as an FYI and as a point to counter the argument that the court made this decision so it must be right, the case was thrown out of a UK court, and in South Korea the court came to the conclusion that they infringed each others patents (one apple patent infringed by Samsung, two Samsung ones infringed by Apple). Different decisions have been made elsewhere.

Quite frankly, I wish they'd all stop spending money on suing each other and spend it on their products...
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The UK court action was a different set of patents altogether. That referred to the look and operation of the Galaxy Tab only, nothing technical and nothing to do with software patents iirc? Apple is appealing this in October, so will be interesting to see what happens there.

The US one was the main court action (Apple being a US company) which detailed all the infringements.
 
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What a great way to kill off the competition
 
ziggy© said:
What a great way to kill off the competition
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But that's why patents are taken out.
 
Apple wins in California...what a surprise. The insane amount awarded may not be huge for Samsung, but long-term I believe these lawsuits are damaging for America as eventually outside businesses may start weighing up whether the huge American market is worth the potentially huge risks involved.
 
gman said:
Apple wins in California...what a surprise. The insane amount awarded may not be huge for Samsung, but long-term I believe these lawsuits are damaging for America as eventually outside businesses may start weighing up whether the huge American market is worth the potentially huge risks involved.
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Yet many other electronics companies can do it, as they don't copy stuff but innovate themselves ;)
 
dejongj said:
Yet many other electronics companies can do it, as they don't copy stuff but innovate themselves ;)
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<cough>Xerox PARC<cough> ;)

All companies copy each other. It's how products improve. What is worrying is Apple are scared enough to have to try and use patents in court to maintain market share.

It is the (very) beginning of their downfall....
 
arad85 said:
<cough>Xerox PARC<cough> ;)

All companies copy each other. It's how products improve. What is worrying is Apple are scared enough to have to try and use patents in court to maintain market share.

It is the (very) beginning of their downfall....
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What about Xerox PARC...I thought you of all people would understand what patents are for...Why does a company have to be scared to use them in court? You must protect them if someone else takes the mick...An no not all companies copy and improve products that way without paying the appropriate fees if anyone wants to provide a license...

Are you trolling on purpose or something? I know you are very anti apple but how you can come up with this?
 
arad85 said:
<cough>Xerox PARC<cough> ;)

All companies copy each other. It's how products improve. What is worrying is Apple are scared enough to have to try and use patents in court to maintain market share.

It is the (very) beginning of their downfall....
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I'm impartial (though I love Apple products) but how can the worlds leading IT company be on the verge of a downfall by winning a patient battle in court??
 
dejongj said:
What about Xerox PARC...
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It's widely accepted Apple "borrowed" Xerox's UI for the first Mac. Kind of ironic they are now suing for a UI design.

odd jim said:
I'm impartial (though I love Apple products) but how can the worlds leading IT company be on the verge of a downfall by winning a patient battle in court??
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Because they are resorting to legal battles to protect market share. Whilst it may work for the short term, it smacks of a company that is losing it's innovative edge and instead relying on a legal position to maintain position.....
 
dejongj said:
I thought you of all people would understand what patents are for...
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Yes, they are generally used to make sure that you can't be sued for something you did infringe (because 9 times out of 10, the person suing you will have infringed one of your patents somewhere).

It's also a great way for lawyers to get rich.
 
odd jim said:
, and may even go towards the windows 8 mobile OS.
!
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This one I doubt, no one has the sphericals to go after Microsoft, Apple contemplated it many years ago over the computer UI and eventually thought better of it. It's always said MS have the deepest pockets and best lawyers to tie anyone up for years even before the reality of the MS patent catalogue (that MS licence out as pretty good rates) comes into play.

When it comes to tit for tat with patents, MS is almost invincible (and will become even stronger with the rumoured acquisition of the Nokia smartphone division and all associated patents from there).
 
Big us company wins patent infringement in us court. No big shock there.
 
arad85 said:
All companies copy each other. It's how products improve. What is worrying is Apple are scared enough to have to try and use patents in court to maintain market share.

It is the (very) beginning of their downfall....
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you realise that right now there are lawsuits going on for almost every company in silicon valley.

is that the beginning of the downfall of all these companies or just apple? and if so why is it just the downfall of apple and not all the others?
 
One thing is most definitely the downfall of apple, the fact they are currently are the most valuable company in the world. At some point another company will be more valuable thus they will go down even when they become more valuable ;)
 
Dave1 said:
This one I doubt, no one has the sphericals to go after Microsoft, Apple contemplated it many years ago over the computer UI and eventually thought better of it. It's always said MS have the deepest pockets and best lawyers to tie anyone up for years even before the reality of the MS patent catalogue (that MS licence out as pretty good rates) comes into play.

When it comes to tit for tat with patents, MS is almost invincible (and will become even stronger with the rumoured acquisition of the Nokia smartphone division and all associated patents from there).
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No I meant they are considering Windows 8 over Android as their devices OS due to the current uncertainty, as the Android OS itself was brought into the argument.
 
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