Apple to brick non-approved repairs

[neil_g]

Word of warning for Mac owners..

https://www.extremetech.com/computi...ks-macbook-pros-to-prevent-third-party-repair

As Vice details, documents distributed through the Apple Authorized Service Provider program show that Apple has introduced software lockouts into the MacBook Pro repair system. If Apple’s proprietary system configuration software isn’t run after the laptop is repaired, the system will lock itself and scream that an unauthorized repair has been performed. The software activates for any repair that involves the MBP’s display assembly, logic board, keyboard, touchpad, or Touch ID board. The report said iMac Pros are impacted if the motherboard or any flash storage are touched. And the system won’t function again unless an Authorized Service Provider runs the Apple Service Toolkit 2 on it.

 

[nandbytes]

A better article with testing
https://www.sciencealert.com/leak-n...event-repairing-t2-imac-pro-macbook-right/amp

To test the feature, technical gurus and right-to-repair advocates iFixit purchased a brand-new 13-inch MacBook Pro with Touch Bar, and promptly disassembled it, swapping out its display and logic board, to see what would happen.


To their surprise, the computer behaved perfectly normally despite the tampering, and didn't become inoperative like Apple's internal docs suggest it should have.


"That's a promising sign, and it means the sky isn't quite falling – yet," iFixit's Adam O'Camb explains in a blog post.

I think it's scare mongering so far...

 

[neil_g]

Cool, let's hope it's not coming to an update near you soon

 

[nandbytes]

To be honest it won't affect me a huge lot. I am not wedded to Apple or their products.

 

[neil_g]

To be fair applecare (or dell/hp/etc equiv) has always been a pretty good idea on expensive high end kit.

 

[nandbytes]

Apple care is brilliant. Dell was equally bad in our experience.
Novatech who is a local company making custom builds were great too.

 

[neil_g]

Dell on site next day was always amazing to me.

I always forget how close novatech are to be honest. Only been there once.

 

[ChrisH]

They have been doing it for a long time on iPhones. I'd be likely to take mine to Apple anyway and if too expensive just replace it with a new product.

 

[gramps]

So I buy a used Mac outright and with no warranty and unless I get it repaired at any future time by Apple, they will fix it so that I can't use my computer?
Tell me I've got that wrong!

 

[ChrisH]

Yup

If you own an iphone 7 or above your already in the trap. The screen and home buttons are tied to the phone. Update the IOS and you brick it. Apple wont even fix it then.

 

[gramps]

Yup

If you own an iphone 7 or above your already in the trap. The screen and home buttons are tied to the phone. Update the IOS and you brick it. Apple wont even fix it then.

No doubt this will get challenged in the courts then in the future ... stopping me using my own phone that I have had repaired can never be justified.

 

[Mikesphotaes]

Yup

If you own an iphone 7 or above your already in the trap. The screen and home buttons are tied to the phone. Update the IOS and you brick it. Apple wont even fix it then.

That sounds totally wrong to me!

 

[ChrisH]

Its already been challenged in the states under their right to repair laws and their courts have done nothing to protect the consumer.

 

[gramps]

Banditry.

 

[nandbytes]

Its already been challenged in the states under their right to repair laws and their courts have done nothing to protect the consumer.

Do you have a reference for this?

 

[shannensdaddy]

Might be worth a read

https://www.fastcompany.com/4051877...islation-has-now-been-introduced-in-17-states

 

[Retune]

Apple ended up backtracking after the public outcry over the 'Error 53' debacle, where an OS update was bricking previously repaired phones. There was a rather unconvincing explanation about a 'factory test' being inadvertantly rolled out to customers:

https://www.wired.com/2016/02/apple-shouldnt-get-to-brick-your-iphone-because-you-fixed-it-yourself/

Of course that doesn't mean they won't try playing similar games in future.

 

[chuckles]

Just remind me again why I have an aversion to Apple products? I keep forgetting

 

[nandbytes]

Might be worth a read

https://www.fastcompany.com/4051877...islation-has-now-been-introduced-in-17-states

thanks

apple slowing down their phones to "protect their batteries"

Why not just make the batteries replaceable by users easily!
Anyway my dislike for iphones goes deeper than just batteries, we'd be here all day

 

[joxby]

You can't argue with the "I just want it to work" catchall position of some people, no doubt at least partially cultivated by the brand itself.
What can you say, the brand will do what it wants if the herd doesn't care enough to object.

 

[Furtim]

The touchID sensor lockouts were supposedly to combat people bypassing the security on phones by swapping our the sensor, so I can perhaps see some logic in that, but when they go to the lengths of 'inventing' new screws to make it harder to access kit, and add extra pins and boards to hard disks to do nothing more than make it harder to swap etc, it is annoying, and I don't think it's necessary to deliver the 'it just works' model but I may be wrong! The chip in question is also an element of the 'always on' nature of Siri too, so there may be something else at play.

As a consumer I do like the way my phone will unlocks the watch, the watch unlocks the Mac, the interoperability of tasks across watch / iPhone / AirPods / iPad / MacBook and iMac etc is pretty sweet given it works with zero config from the user - at the moment (and partly because at least some of the kit is paid for by work!), the lock-in is a penalty I'm prepared to take. Life's not so bad as a sheep sometimes, at least it gives you the capacity to pick other battles to fight!

 

[nandbytes]

You can't argue with the "I just want it to work" catchall position of some people, no doubt at least partially cultivated by the brand itself.
What can you say, the brand will do what it wants if the herd doesn't care enough to object.

Tbh most other devices also do just work these days

Of course apple's marketing is brilliant in attracting customers with the above mentioned selling point.

 

[Neilc28]

I'm not usually a fan of Linus, but the recent series they did on getting an iMac Pro repaired is quite eye-opening...

Whatever your opinion on Linus, I encourage you to watch as the support for a brand-new product is quite shocking!

View: https://youtu.be/9-NU7yOSElE

 

[JonathanRyan]

Meanwhile, to everybody's amazement M$ becomes slightly less evil....

https://www.theinquirer.net/inquire...0-000-patents-to-open-source-to-protect-linux

Is it opposite day again?

Pretty sure my next machine won't be a Mac. But then I seem to buy desktops about every 10 years or so.

 

[Retune]

Meanwhile, to everybody's amazement M$ becomes slightly less evil....

https://www.theinquirer.net/inquire...0-000-patents-to-open-source-to-protect-linux

Is it opposite day again?

Pretty sure my next machine won't be a Mac. But then I seem to buy desktops about every 10 years or so.

It's like that time after the Brexit vote when I found myself on the same side as George Osborne about something.

Now that Ballmer is long gone, MS is making sensible business decisions about Linux, which has become integral to their strategy. They provide WSL for Windows PCs, which is binary-compatible with Linux. Some of their Azure cloud infrastructure is built on Linux, and around half (sometimes more) of the virtual machines customers run on it are Linux. There's plenty to gain and not much to lose by supporting an OS that has never become a serious competitor to Windows on the desktop.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Meanwhile, to everybody's amazement M$ becomes slightly less evil....

https://www.theinquirer.net/inquire...0-000-patents-to-open-source-to-protect-linux

Is it opposite day again?

Pretty sure my next machine won't be a Mac. But then I seem to buy desktops about every 10 years or so.

Hell must be freezing over. Maybe Win 11 will be finally built on a better core such as Linux. I might actually want to go and buy that. This was the only reason I bought into mac platform. It is actually BSD based, which is another OSS system.

Seriously I may be leaving mac plantation with all their china ouvertures, censorship, iOS horrors and now plain screwing customers up. I am actually shopping around for a new workstation and a screen so I will cast the net wider this time.

 

[JonathanRyan]

Hell must be freezing over. Maybe Win 11 will be finally built on a better core such as Linux. I might actually want to go and buy that. This was the only reason I bought into mac platform. It is actually BSD based, which is another OSS system.

Seriously I may be leaving mac plantation with all their china ouvertures, censorship, iOS horrors and now plain screwing customers up. I am actually shopping around for a new workstation and a screen so I will cast the net wider this time.

If it wasn't for the adverts and the feeling that it turns your computer into an Xbox, I'd have to admit that I quite like Win10.

I mean, the latest upgrade even deletes your data - just like the good old fashioned OSX releases

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Just to be clear it is anything with T2 chip in it. It may or may not affect earlier T1 for all we know. Basically all current MBPs will be all dead and impossible to fix within around 10 years, as Apple will not touch older than 3-4 year old device. Or maybe someone will reverse engineer the software and there will be EU laws just like for the car OBD port at least partially opening up the system.

For all I know the T2 may be listening to all you say and sending it to China and your bank or insurance company with your social score because there is no way to disprove it. NO THANKS!

If it wasn't for the adverts and the feeling that it turns your computer into an Xbox, I'd have to admit that I quite like Win10.

I mean, the latest upgrade even deletes your data - just like the good old fashioned OSX releases

Could you please elaborate further on that?

 

[JonathanRyan]

Could you please elaborate further on that?

Sure.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/9l2v3z/windows_1809_update_wiped_my_documents/

And just in case you think it's Reddit's scare mongering, here's what M$ have to say on the matter

We have paused the rollout of the Windows 10 October 2018 Update (version 1809) for all users as we investigate isolated reports of users missing some files after updating.

Source: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4464619/windows-10-update-history

 

[Mr Bump]

OK I am a bit confused here as despite all the bickering it kind of comes down to this.
Apple seem to be up their arse about security and ID protection, something they have crowed about in the press regarding the phones.
When you get an apple phone you enter that wonderfull club of serious security.

So they are basically saying if you circumvent this security with a 3rd part repair or you are a thief trying to re-purpose a stolen apple device we (apple) will shut it down?

Is that about it?

 

[chuckles]

OK I am a bit confused here as despite all the bickering it kind of comes down to this.
Apple seem to be up their arse about security and ID protection, something they have crowed about in the press regarding the phones.
When you get an apple phone you enter that wonderfull club of serious security.

So they are basically saying if you circumvent this security with a 3rd part repair or you are a thief trying to re-purpose a stolen apple device we (apple) will shut it down?

Is that about it?

In a sense. But, you need to add in ---

When your phone reaches end of support, you're pretty much left to 3rd Party repairs if it should go faulty - then they will reduce it to a brick!

 

[Mr Bump]

In a sense. But, you need to add in ---

When your phone reaches end of support, you're pretty much left to 3rd Party repairs if it should go faulty - then they will reduce it to a brick!

phones have a shelf life of what 3-5 years ?
I don't own an apple product so can't comment but what do they consider end of life?

 

[chuckles]

phones have a shelf life of what 3-5 years ?
I don't own an apple product so can't comment but what do they consider end of life?

Me neither but there is a big difference between end of life and end of support - especially if end of support brings on an end of life!

 

[Mr Bump]

Me neither but there is a big difference between end of life and end of support - especially if end of support brings on an end of life!

I sort of agree, I have a Samsung Note 4 which is probably knocking 5 years old now, I have owned it for over two years and it was sold to me used 2 years old.
I assume Samsung will stop producing updates for it soon and it will go the way of Microsoft XP and Windows 7 and I will go and buy a new phone.

I think the apple stance for what I have read is the correct thing to do.
built in obsolescence I believe as it is nowadays.

 

[gramps]

I think the apple stance for what I have read is the correct thing to do.
built in obsolescence I believe as it is nowadays.

Can't agree with that at all ... if I rent my phone from them, maybe but if I buy it outright it's mine.
If it's mine, taking the use away from me is tantamount to theft!

 

[Mr Bump]

Can't agree with that at all ... if I rent my phone from them, maybe but if I buy it outright it's mine.
If it's mine, taking the use away from me is tantamount to theft!

I would imagine as far as apple are concerned you buy the hardware not the software.
So if you have modified the phone or had it repaired by a 3rd party you have broken the agreement?

likewise an old phone will not be supported as an old OS like Windows XP or W7?

 

[gramps]

I would imagine as far as apple are concerned you buy the hardware not the software.
So if you have modified the phone or had it repaired by a 3rd party you have broken the agreement?

likewise an old phone will not be supported as an old OS like Windows XP or W7?

Having no support for the software is different to sabotaging the hardware.
Until recently I had two desktops running XP for specific commercial programmes that would only work on XP (work-related).
Although MS no longer supported XP I was still free to use/repair/update the desktops that ran the XP
What next ... electric blanket stops working, kettle won't boil or microwave gives me the raspberry?

 

[Mr Bump]

Having no support for the software is different to sabotaging the hardware.
Until recently I had two desktops running XP for specific commercial programmes that would only work on XP (work-related).
Although MS no longer supported XP I was still free to use/repair/update the desktops that ran the XP
What next ... electric blanket stops working, kettle won't boil or microwave gives me the raspberry?

Sorry but I don't read they are sabotaging the hardware, I read that unauthorized or 3rd party repairs that may compromise the security of the device will render it inoperative?

 

[gramps]

Sorry but I don't read they are sabotaging the hardware, I read that unauthorized or 3rd party repairs that may compromise the security of the device will render it inoperative?

How is that not sabotaging the hardware?
I may live miles away from an Apple Centre but have a phone repair shop on the corner of my street ... how is my choice of repair to my phone 'unauthorised'?

 

[Mr Bump]

How is that not sabotaging the hardware?
I may live miles away from an Apple Centre but have a phone repair shop on the corner of my street ... how is my choice of repair to my phone 'unauthorised'?

you just playing with words on this and tying yourself up in knots.
semantics.

I MAY live, my CHOICE.

you bought apple, you opted out of choice.