Apple Devices & Computers under threat?

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...ks.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Never mind Eugene Kapersky, a college lecturer of mine 11 years ago predicted that when Apple computers were finally attacked [this was pre-iPhone/ipad days of course], it would take almost all of them out because Mac owners are very complacent about security and being careful, and Apple are too busy navel gazing. Now I am not sure how serious a threat the above linked article is [sure one of our techy guys can fill in the bits the journalist has missed out], but here is the question - are users of Apple devices of all shapes and sizes generally a bit too complacent? The iPhone and iPads means that Apple now has a huge market share and make them far more attractive to the kind of people that want to write/distribute viruses, malware and hacking attempts than they were 11 years ago when Paul made that prediction. His words stuck with me and I am as careful about what I click on these days now I am all Mac'd up as I was back then when I was building/stripping down and generally learning Windows 2000 / XP machines inside out. Is everyone as careful though, and is there a need to be, or is there a big fat bucket of crap out there just waiting to be exploited by al the wrong kind of people?

Oh and I haven't posted this to start a Win v Mac debate, so lets leave that one at the door please ;)
 
Yv said:
are users of Apple devices of all shapes and sizes generally a bit too complacent?
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Generally, yes, they are.
 
Nothing gets in the appstore without apple approval. Mavericks whinges if you try and install anything outside of the appstore. If they lock down Yosemite so that app store approved applications *only* are allowed then I can't see how some trojanised and repackaged software could actually be installed easily. If it involves effort then your average mac user won't bother as they're used to one click and it installs without a fuss. On an Iphone/ipad it's App store only unless you fanny about getting some magic code or something. I have installed one beta version of something once and it was such an arse ache I'd never bother again. Therefore that route for infection doesn't seem likely without a lot of user manipulation.

The key to breaking apple security is to get something malicious into the app store that sits there and does nothing for ages and then goes bad. I'd think nasty people would regularly try and get things like this in the app store.

Cybersecurity firm claim to have found something in the wild they have a cure for. Complacent mac users will be decimated. They make a big fuss then slink off when whatever threat they've cooked up doesn't work. A story like this usually comes up regularly and as yet nothing has happened.

Following basic sense and not installing things from unknown sources, don't open unknown origin zip files. Don't run your desktop as an admin privileged user. I think even mac users do most of those. There are some that are wilfully ignorant but I'd imagine they'd be just as dumb with a pc.
 
I think apple are slowly losing their initial advantage of a unified hardware architecture. It meant they could squeeze better performance from inferior hardware and for the most part, keep security pretty tight (aided by the fact that macs were a niche system that really didnt attract a lot of security problems).
Nowadays however, i imagine most homes have more apple devices than windows devices. It's just a matter of time really.
That said, there havent been any massive android scandals yet either...
 
I've just read about wirelurker. It's a piece of malware affecting Apple products in China. Seems it gets loaded from sites other than Apples AppStore. It seems to be a data collection app at the moment. or simply a proof of concept waiting to be developed. It primarily infests OSX and then spreads to iOS devices. As Apple devices become more popular then they will become targets for hackers and the like.

And yes I'm on a Mac and run anti virus soft
 
srichards said:
Nothing gets in the appstore without apple approval. Mavericks whinges if you try and install anything outside of the appstore. If they lock down Yosemite so that app store approved applications *only* are allowed then I can't see how some trojanised and repackaged software could actually be installed easily. If it involves effort then your average mac user won't bother as they're used to one click and it installs without a fuss. On an Iphone/ipad it's App store only unless you fanny about getting some magic code or something. I have installed one beta version of something once and it was such an arse ache I'd never bother again. Therefore that route for infection doesn't seem likely without a lot of user manipulation.

The key to breaking apple security is to get something malicious into the app store that sits there and does nothing for ages and then goes bad. I'd think nasty people would regularly try and get things like this in the app store.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't imagine for a second that the "appstore" is the only available attack vector for a hacker who wants to remotely execute malicious code on a fruity thing.
 
yup, look at flashback. that didn't come from the app store.

ive been saying it for years (and ive always been poo-poo'd) that as apple market share increases the threat to mac users will increase. rocket science it aint, the malware writers will go where the money/personal data is.
 
Last time I went to the local "Genius" bar at the Apple Store, the "Genius" recommended I disable my anti-virus and financial website protection as they were slowing down my Mac and were not needed!
 
neil_g said:
Flashback was spread via compromised websites.
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This is today's attack vector of choice. It's generally OS agnostic. The Apple users who don't run any anti-virus will have to just learn the hard way....
 
ChrisR said:
Last time I went to the local "Genius" bar at the Apple Store, the "Genius" recommended I disable my anti-virus and financial website protection as they were slowing down my Mac and were not needed!
Click to expand...

Open a terminal

type "nohup cp /dev/random .hidden &"

close terminal

Then watch the "genius" try to fix it - hours of Mac store fun.
 
So, the general conscensus so far is that there is is too much complacency [seemingly perpetuated by a Genuis or or two] and further, I guess you can add ignorance [in it's truest sense] into that too as many more people that own phones and tablets will be self confessed technophobes, happily buying into the Apple is immortal sales patter. As a few have already said, attacks can come from all manner of directions and you have probably already guessed I am in the 'only a matter of time' camp.
I also remembered whilst plodding along the M25 last night a windows user who proudly boasted never having had a virus or malware in 20 years through purely being careful, didn't need AV type programs - who then a month later was questioning a popup related to a particular website - needless to say the pop up was nothing to do with the website, everything to do with the machine. Even the most careful can fall foul, and that is more likely to happen if there is a general feeling that it 'won't'.
 
Plan for the worse . Hope for the best. Have at least one back up and run AV software . As Neil says it not viruses it's malware that's the problem. Mind you responding to emails that tell you your bank/credit card account has been suspended can't be covered by AV software.
 
Chappers said:
As Neil says it not viruses it's malware that's the problem.
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It is very simple - you install something bootlegged and you grant the full permissions and many would even disable the AV to get it done. This is how it was done on windows a lot of the time, and in principle will work on ANY OS where user has the choice. It still doesn't mean iOS is any good since apple is leaving terrible backdoors to compensate for sandboxing limitations.

P.S. Macs ship with very weak default security settings. The main user is set as admin. This is terrible practice. WHY?!
 
daugirdas said:
It is very simple - you install something bootlegged and you grant the full permissions and many would even disable the AV to get it done.
Click to expand...

except thats not always the case. flashback posed as a legitimate update to adobe software on compremised sites.

P.S. Macs ship with very weak default security settings. The main user is set as admin. This is terrible practice. WHY?!
Click to expand...

same as windows, run through the install and the user it creates has admin rights.
 
daugirdas said:
P.S. Macs ship with very weak default security settings. The main user is set as admin. This is terrible practice. WHY?!
Click to expand...
Because most people don't want to understand about security and changing users etc...
 
arad85 said:
Because most people don't want to understand about security and changing users etc...
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indeed. they dont want the hassle.

i stripped admin access off the OH laptop (and kept the admin logon secret) as she kept installing malware, its a pain getting legit stuff installed on it. but thats the price i pay.
 
neil_g said:
i stripped admin access off the OH laptop (and kept the admin logon secret) as she kept installing malware, its a pain getting legit stuff installed on it. but thats the price i pay.
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My OH knows how much it drives me mad clearing up other people's mistakes. She's getting quite good at asking me to install everything she wants/needs these days ;)
 
arad85 said:
Because most people don't want to understand about security and changing users etc...
Click to expand...

But they understand to lock the door, the back door and the windows? This is the same thing. The default needs to be locked down, firewall on. There is not much difficulty typing in an admin password should you wish to install something or change major global settings. This would stop a lot of automated malware overtaking the whole system. Userspace is always at risk, but that's no rootkits and system wide infection.
 
daugirdas said:
But they understand to lock the door, the back door and the windows? This is the same thing. The default needs to be locked down, firewall on. There is not much difficulty typing in an admin password should you wish to install something or change major global settings. This would stop a lot of automated malware overtaking the whole system. Userspace is always at risk, but that's no rootkits and system wide infection.
Click to expand...
Yup you are right. But nobody cares about computer security because I'll never happen to me and its inconvinient. The windows lot have a bit of a better attitude, at least years of being the platform to abuse at least they run anti virus which is better than nothing.

Mac users however are still walking a round with finger in ears going lalalalalala.
 
daugirdas said:
But they understand to lock the door,
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Yeah.. but a door is like.. real... and they can imagine people walking through it. Computers on the other hand....
 
st599 said:
Open a terminal

type "nohup cp /dev/random .hidden &"

close terminal

Then watch the "genius" try to fix it - hours of Mac store fun.
Click to expand...
Is this like the fun to be had with..
NOKEY "E"​
Or however the command was formulated on the old BBC Master computers? (Yes, I'm old enough to remember these in school)
 
Alastair said:
Is this like the fun to be had with..
NOKEY "E"​
Or however the command was formulated on the old BBC Master computers? (Yes, I'm old enough to remember these in school)
Click to expand...
It creates a hidden file full of random numbers until it fills the disk. If the genius can't find the command or hidden file, he's got a very slow pc which won't save any files.
 
Virus attack is the biggest reason I'm against online software like Adobe CC. If your pc is online constantly then it is constantly open to attack.
 
Peter69 said:
Virus attack is the biggest reason I'm against online software like Adobe CC. If your pc is online constantly then it is constantly open to attack.
Click to expand...
Not a great argument, CC only needs a connection once every 30 days to check its subscription.

Also just having your computer online doesn't make it vunerable. Unless you're in Hollywood.
 
neil_g said:
except thats not always the case. flashback posed as a legitimate update to adobe software on compremised sites.
Click to expand...

Just another reason not to have flash installed at all, the quicker everyone dumps flash from their computer the better, as it will make the uptake of safer alternative faster IMHO

Ive not had or missed flash for maybe 2 years now, I just don't view any sites that insists on flash.

As for the main story of this thread, it only effect those that download from a 3rd party app store and mainly targets china, as said before don't pirate stuff and you much, much less likely to be affected by malware.
 
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acetone said:
As for the main story of this thread, it only effect those that download from a 3rd party app store and mainly targets china, as said before don't pirate stuff and you much, much less likely to be affected by malware.
Click to expand...

The same can of course be said of all OS's, I've personally don't believe OSX is any less vulnerable than Windows and it is simply lack of education that causes the majority of computer problems.

Educate the user and 80% of the risk disappears, leave the user to believe they are safe no matter what and BOOM! Unfortunately I have known OSX users who fall into this category as they were led to believe that OSX is virus/malware-proof.
 
acetone said:
Just another reason not to have flash installed at all, the quicker everyone dumps flash from their computer the better, as it will make the uptake of safer alternative faster IMHO

Ive not had or missed flash for maybe 2 years now, I just don't view any sites that insists on flash.

As for the main story of this thread, it only effect those that download from a 3rd party app store and mainly targets china, as said before don't pirate stuff and you much, much less likely to be affected by malware.
Click to expand...
Agreed, flash should die. Quickly.

However that's not the point. You could replace flash with any other spoofed bit of software.
 
I tend to disable javascript, flash and Java JRE for all websites by default and add exceptions for trusted sites.
Chrome and Firefox make this fairly easy to live with.
 
Peter69 said:
If your pc is online constantly then it is constantly open to attack.
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No it isn't. Most PCs sit behind a router which makes it pretty impossible* to attack the PC without the user doing something stupid.




*unless you are a chump and have the router badly set up routing every packet to your PC
 
arad85 said:
No it isn't. Most PCs sit behind a router which makes it pretty impossible* to attack the PC without the user doing something stupid.




*unless you are a chump and have the router badly set up routing every packet to your PC
Click to expand...

True, but some routers are pretty old and may be compromised themselves.
 
daugirdas said:
True, but some routers are pretty old and may be compromised themselves.
Click to expand...
even the linksys routers work used 9-10 years ago when i started had a pretty good firewall.

as for the second point, as a home user id say highly unlikely. unless....

1) you run an open wireless AND have a crap admin key
2) you switch off the default block of admin via the internet AND have a crap admin key

however (again as a home user) you're not going to be on the radar of anyone wanting to crack your router. malware is a much easier (and mostly automated) option for scammers to get your money/details.
 
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