Anyone with any employment law knowledge here?

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Tom
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To cut a long story sort of short, I currently am employed by a company I started at nearly 13 years ago. In 2011 I left to go traveling. I handed in my notice and we parted on the best possible terms. On my return to the UK my then previous employer got in touch to see if I had anything else lined up (I hadn't, I'd literally been back 1 day and had been spotted by an old colleague in Tesco!). My former employer called offered me my old role with all terms and entitlement restored 'as if I had never left'. I took the offer and went back.

Now, the last 6 months has been rough and the company are in real danger of having to make a lot of redundancies. With the very real possibility that I could be one I find myself in a pickle. I have a letter from the company re-offering me my old position as 're-employment' with all entitlements to run 'concurrently'. My obvious concern focuses on redundancy pay should the axe fall on me. As I, and my immediate manager, understand I will be treated as if I never left and be paid redundancy with 12 years under my belt - that payout would be worth hanging on for. Playing Devil's advocate here, if however the powers that be decide not to do that, and only treat me as new starter from my return date I could well be very stuffed. In that instance I would of course fight my corner but my question is, would my letter of re-employment really need to have more robust wording or some specific phrase(s)? My manager has given me the opportunity to have the letter reissued should I want any changes made given the current turn of events - so - can anyone offer me any enlightenment or advice?

Many thanks in advance.

Tom
 
I doubt if your employer is under an obligation to give you anything beyond the statutory minimum redundancy based on on your true current length of unbroken service.
However, you appear to have been treated uncommonly fairly by your employer given that you left to go walkabouts. Sounds to me to be the sort of employer who would give you a favourable redundancy package unless, of course, his/her financial position renders that impossible.
 
Sounds to me to be the sort of employer who would give you a favourable redundancy package unless, of course, his/her financial position renders that impossible.

I feel this will likely be the case, but just want to do everything I can to make sure really as much as possible really.

Thanks Dougie.
 
If it was one of the key terms in your agreeing to go back and work for them I think they would be on dodgy ground not honouring that.
 
Having recently spent over an hour with an employment solicitor you need to read T.U.P.E (google it)
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...rotection-of-employment-tupe-regulations-2013
Go to employing people(and other sections) in the list at the bottom of page. This link is for what employers have to abide by.

When I studied the whole document as an employer it was frightening how many rights an employee has, so do please go and read thoroughly.

Bet your employer does not know about TUPE.
in some circumstances at an industrial tribuneral an employer can be made to pay an employee up to £750,000 in compensation to unfair dismissal depending on length of service and how/why dismissed.

If a firm closes downthen its reasonable to pay redundancy pay but what an employer can't do is sack someone then take on a new employee at a cheaper rate for the same job or similar the previous employer could have managed

If A company is taken over then the staff have to be transferred to the new owners, THEY CAN'T BE SACKED ON THOSE GROUNDS ALONE without paying the employee all he is intitled to. Should the new owners dismiss the employee then either they have to pay compensation for the years the employee worked for the previous company or failing that the employee can go back to the original company owners for compensation unless there is an indemnity clause in the handover contract from old to new owners.

Just a couple of things in TUPE

have to be honest and I didn't realise how strong employees right are. AS I said My wife and I spent at least an hour if not more with the solicitor and the advice and information ran into a 4 figure sum. The above link reinforces the 2006 version.
If an employee leave through their own choice then then the above does not apply
 
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Not really sure how TUPE would apply in this case. It only applies when an undertaking has been transferred from one employer to another. e.g. a company put a contract in place with cleaning company A to clean their offices. Cleaning company B then come along and say, "we can do that job for you but it'll be 20% cheaper." If cleaning company B wins that contract then the staff that worked for cleaning company A would 'TUPE' over to cleaning company B.

As for the OP if you have the opportunity to have your letter of re-appointment re-issued just make sure that it 100% states you will have your 12 years continuous service. Have you received other 'perks' that you only get after a period of service. ie. Does someone with 12 years service get more annual leave than someone with one years service? If that is the case and you can show that last year you were treated as someone with 12 years then it shouldn't be a problem.
 
As for the OP if you have the opportunity to have your letter of re-appointment re-issued just make sure that it 100% states you will have your 12 years continuous service.

If you have that signed by a director on behalf of the company then I can't see how they could do anything else.


Steve.
 
The last place I would go to for employment law matters would be a photo forum.
 
Not really sure how TUPE would apply in this case. It only applies when an undertaking has been transferred from one employer to another. e.g. a company put a contract in place with cleaning company A to clean their offices. Cleaning company B then come along and say, "we can do that job for you but it'll be 20% cheaper." If cleaning company B wins that contract then the staff that worked for cleaning company A would 'TUPE' over to cleaning company B.

As for the OP if you have the opportunity to have your letter of re-appointment re-issued just make sure that it 100% states you will have your 12 years continuous service. Have you received other 'perks' that you only get after a period of service. ie. Does someone with 12 years service get more annual leave than someone with one years service? If that is the case and you can show that last year you were treated as someone with 12 years then it shouldn't be a problem.


Actually TUPE covers far more than the 2 examples I posted it explains what rights an employee has,maybe you havn't read it all.
As I said in my posting having gone specifically to an employment solicitor and having it pointed out bit by bit as well in great detail you would know what has to be included in a contract of employment to make it legally binding, and TUPE is only part of it to explain legal rights not the actual contract of employment. Having now a little knowledge there is no way would I sign a contract of employment before an employment solicitor gave it the once over as I can bet there would be flaws in it. In one section I have 6 x A4 pages alone on TUPE and thats just covering the basic guide.
Ok its mainly for employers admittedly but employees can gain a lot of knowledge on what an employer can and can't do about those working for the company.

Employment laws are vast, and so many different laws it is a minefield which any layman would struggle with.
My advise would always seek out an employment solicitor and let them handle everything.

TUPE is not for what you highlighted about one company taking 20% business from another so it seems to me you have not studied or understood it properly. let me see if i can make it plainer

Its about what happens if a company dismisses an employee improperly- transferring employees contracts-replacing employees at a lower rate-what rights an employee has from the employers view point -if a company ceases trading and so much more. i could go on about what financially an employee is entitled to relative to length of service to name but one thing it also covers as well as ACAS and when to approach them. In other word TUPE is about employees rights



What you are suggesting is so far from what TUPE is about I am suprised that the example was given. Staff are still employed by the same company and paid by that company. Transferring staff on a temporary basis has nothing to do with TUPE ,its an agreement between two companies regarding a working/payment arrangements and a contract between them. This is why I stated I would get an employment solicitor to go over a a contract of employment. If that contact of employment signed by both employee and employer states that the employee only works for that company and is not expected to be sub contracted to another company on any basis, than they can't be forced to work for , in your case company B. If they refused and got sacked that then would be unfair dismissal.
However if that exclusivity clause is not included it could mean that if the employee refused to work for company B then there would be a strong case for dismissal having been given the proper warnings beforehand and the employee would be hard pressed to claim compensation for unfair dismissal .

This is just one example why a contract of employment should be examined by both employer and employees dedicated solicitor to protect both sides. Again employment law is very complex and not for the faint hearted without legal advise.

Over a good hour talking to a specialist employment solicitor and drawing up a legal contract of employment for my staff and all that it involves left my head spinning and I still don't know all about employment law and wouldn't pretend I did.

What I was mainly interested in was, strange as it may seem, making sure that who I employ are protected and I complied with a proper contract of employment between us, which also would give protection should we sell the company. The staff we given a copy to study and raise points on any concerns before signing. That was the main reason for seeking legal advise. When we took over the company 20 years plus it was more or less a verbal agreement but nowadays things have tightened up so much a written contract of employment is mandatory or an employer can find themselves in serious deep water.

There was so much more as well but that is company confidentually which I definately won't go into on an open forum like this


Tom

you should have a proper contract of employment, I don't believe a letter of agreement is legal. If you don't have one then the company is breaking the law as far as I am aware, so you have a strong position to go to a tribuneral should the need arise
A contract of employment should include the company and companies owners and the company address- your name and address(date of birth?)- employment start date- holiday entitlements- hours worked- annual salary ( at start of employment and proposed increases possibly)- your position within that company- paid sickness before producing a medical report-any pension scheme offered or you have to contribute to- your rights of appeal incase of unfair dismissal and proceedures to name but some. You should also have included about continuous service even if broken Me thinks
If your letter doesn't include all/some/more then its not worth the paper its printed on

https://www.gov.uk/employment-contracts-and-conditions/written-statement-of-employment-particulars

May be of some help
 
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Lots to take in thank you. Bazza, I'm semi-aware of TUPE, my employers are also familiar with it so it will I'm sure be worthwhile reading up on some of the finer points.

Thanks folks.
 
As for the OP if you have the opportunity to have your letter of re-appointment re-issued just make sure that it 100% states you will have your 12 years continuous service. Have you received other 'perks' that you only get after a period of service. ie. Does someone with 12 years service get more annual leave than someone with one years service? If that is the case and you can show that last year you were treated as someone with 12 years then it shouldn't be a problem.

i would have thought this would have applied ,,,the devil is in the detail ,as they say ,
 
Having the letter re-issued is one thing, however, if you employer really wants to win they will be able to produce evidence that when push comes to shove, your 12 years aren't in fact continuous. As a lawyer, and agreeing with others here, you really need to consult a professional specialising in employment law.

Good luck!
 
whats TUPE got to do with this? Same company not a buy out.
 
Lynton

With all due respect all I can suggest is you go see a specialist employment solicitor, spend £1000+ on getting their expert advise and knowledge then come back on here. They will explain all about TUPE -employment contracts- employees rights etc etc. Oh by the way be prepared to give up a morning or afternoon when you go. WE DID
 
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