Anyone want to be a second shooter

awp said:
I don't think he's thought this through properly at all :thumbsdown:
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do you mind me asking why you say that? I think its a very generous offer for somebody :). There's always people on here asking for 2nd tog experience. There are a couple of details to be worked out but thats all.

Cheers

Hugh
 
Give him a break FFS,

He has provided a great opportunity for someone to go along to a wedding as a second shooter which will give them a bit of experience and a selection of images for their portfolio should they wish to pursue this type of photography.

And what does he get for his effort and willingness... Flamed !!!

Jamie good luck with your search and if I was closer I would come along as your second shooter, gladly. After all I know what a day course in this sort of thing costs, and your offering the experience gratis!

Some people :shrug:
 
1) I think there is potentially a real problem in asking someone to use an unfamiliar camera. When working under pressure (e.g. at a wedding) you must know your equipment like the back of your hand. Where is the benefit to the 2nd shooter there?

2) The problem of knowing who shot which picture - it will be almost impossible to tell/remember the day after! So the 2nd shooter gets a portfolio of pictures that may not even be his/hers!

3) The problem of copyright - anything the 2nd shooter takes is his/her copyright and they would be entitled to sell prints from their files. How can they tell which shot is theirs - this is a recipe for argument and disaster!

4) The problem of copyright - the OP may well sell work that is NOT his - either accidentally or on purpose - and the 2nd shooter is not even going to have the files!

5) If a critical shot is messed up - there is the potential for argument about who took that shot - and who is liable if the B&G sue over it!

All in all a total mess if you ask me. The blind leading the blind is not a great way to shoot a wedding - it is after all someone's special day!

If you want to get experience as a second shooter - the best way to learn how to shoot weddings BTW - then contact an established wedding photographer and convince them to let you tag along on a few jobs. You may even get some proper paid work out of it if you prove yourself.
 
awp said:
1) I think there is potentially a real problem in asking someone to use an unfamiliar camera. When working under pressure (e.g. at a wedding) you must know your equipment like the back of your hand. Where is the benefit to the 2nd shooter there?

2) The problem of knowing who shot which picture - it will be almost impossible to tell/remember the day after! So the 2nd shooter gets a portfolio of pictures that may not even be his/hers!

3) The problem of copyright - anything the 2nd shooter takes is his/her copyright and they would be entitled to sell prints from their files. How can they tell which shot is theirs - this is a recipe for argument and disaster!

4) The problem of copyright - the OP may well sell work that is NOT his - either accidentally or on purpose - and the 2nd shooter is not even going to have the files!

5) If a critical shot is messed up - there is the potential for argument about who took that shot - and who is liable if the B&G sue over it!

All in all a total mess if you ask me. The blind leading the blind is not a great way to shoot a wedding - it is after all someone's special day!
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so the detail that needs changing is that the second shooter use his or her own kit and solves all those arguements? agreement between OP and 2nd tog is between the two of them to sort details of copyright who does what etc. The OP did say he'd want to meet and discuss this.


on point 5) the B & G contract is with the OP so the OP retains responisibilty. Simple really and goes without saying

Hugh
 
Why are these threads so complicated?

1: He is shooting the wedding.
2: He is offering someone the chance to learn.

Simple, end of story. Jump at it, you might not get another offer.

Well done JJ - very kind, and I for one would bite your arm off, but A: I have already eaten, and B: I am in Edinburgh.

Gary.
 
awp said:
1) I think there is potentially a real problem in asking someone to use an unfamiliar camera. When working under pressure (e.g. at a wedding) you must know your equipment like the back of your hand. Where is the benefit to the 2nd shooter there?

2) The problem of knowing who shot which picture - it will be almost impossible to tell/remember the day after! So the 2nd shooter gets a portfolio of pictures that may not even be his/hers!

3) The problem of copyright - anything the 2nd shooter takes is his/her copyright and they would be entitled to sell prints from their files. How can they tell which shot is theirs - this is a recipe for argument and disaster!

4) The problem of copyright - the OP may well sell work that is NOT his - either accidentally or on purpose - and the 2nd shooter is not even going to have the files!

5) If a critical shot is messed up - there is the potential for argument about who took that shot - and who is liable if the B&G sue over it!

All in all a total mess if you ask me. The blind leading the blind is not a great way to shoot a wedding - it is after all someone's special day!

If you want to get experience as a second shooter - the best way to learn how to shoot weddings BTW - then contact an established wedding photographer and convince them to let you tag along on a few jobs. You may even get some proper paid work out of it if you prove yourself.
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All issues to be sorted out between Jamie and whoever the second shooter may be at their pre wedding meeting so not really a mess at all as far as I can see. How is your last paragraph any different to how Jamie is doing it anyway? :shrug:
 
Well everyone, including me, is entitled to their opinion - I just think whoever is up for this has to have a good think about it before rushing in. I don't see it as a learning oportunity at all - not in these circumstances. I do not shoot weddings BTW - so have no axe to grind there.
 
If you want to get experience as a second shooter - the best way to learn how to shoot weddings BTW - then contact an established wedding photographer and convince them to let you tag along on a few jobs. You may even get some proper paid work out of it if you prove yourself.
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just think whoever is up for this has to have a good think about it before rushing in. I don't see it as a learning oportunity at all - not in these circumstances.
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so in one post 2nd togging is the best way to learn but in the next this isn't a learning opportunity? TBH it sounds like a learning opportunity to me & the OP has been very candid about what he is and isn't offering. Where the issue?
 
at the risk of dragging this thread kicking and screaming back to where it started

I'd like to put my name in the hat!

be interested to know what Canon kit you've got as my preference would be to use my own - pair of 5Ds and fair selection of glass

dons tin hat and stands back! :nuts:
 
boyfalldown said:
so in one post 2nd togging is the best way to learn but in the next this isn't a learning opportunity? TBH it sounds like a learning opportunity to me & the OP has been very candid about what he is and isn't offering. Where the issue?
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The issue is in how experienced the 1st photographer is - it's only his fourth wedding!
 
mmcp42 said:
at the risk of dragging this thread kicking and screaming back to where it started

I'd like to put my name in the hat!

be interested to know what Canon kit you've got as my preference would be to use my own - pair of 5Ds and fair selection of glass

dons tin hat and stands back! :nuts:
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Good luck - and tell us later how it all goes.
 
awp said:
The issue is in how experienced the 1st photographer is - it's only his fourth wedding!
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FFS - he's been perfectly open & honest about this - he's not charging for training, every little thing in his offer has been a problem so far and I just don't see why for a generous & straightforward offer.
 
I would love an opportunity like this (why I have PMd him). I would be more comfortable using my own kit, which I have enough of :)
 
I dont do weddings but I ahve an opinion :)

I see a lot of posts from people asking to be a second shooter. then I see this offering the opportunity.. can't see a downside to be honest..

As for the equipment use and the reason.. there is an easier answer.. I have worked for event togs in the past.. They supply me with memory cards that i use on my equipment.. Would that work for you ?
 
KIPAX said:
I dont do weddings but I ahve an opinion :)

I see a lot of posts from people asking to be a second shooter. then I see this offering the opportunity.. can't see a downside to be honest..

As for the equipment use and the reason.. there is an easier answer.. I have worked for event togs in the past.. They supply me with memory cards that i use on my equipment.. Would that work for you ?
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now that makes sense!
 
FFS- THANKS TO THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE PUT NICE COMMENTS ON..TO THOSE WHO SEEM TO HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO THAN BE NEGATIVE, I APPRICIATE EVERYONE HAS AN OPINION AND YES IM NOT THE MOST EXPERIENCED WEDDING TOG OUT THERE, BUT WE ALL HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE....AND AS I HAVE WORKED WITH A 2ND SHOOTER WITH ME..THOUGHT IT WOULD BE NICE TO GIVE SOMEONE ELSE AN OPPERTUNITY & THEY MAY EVEN HAVE BETTER GEAR THAN ME AND BE A BETTER TOG THAN ME, BUT THERE IS ALWAYS SOME ONE BETTER THAN EVERYONE....HENCE THE NEED TO MEET!!!!!

CONTINUE TO CARRY ON POSTING YOUR NEATIVE COMMENTS...I WILL JUST IGNORE THEM AND LOOK AT THE POSITIVES FROM THIS FORUM..

I REMEMBER STARTING OUT (AND I AM NOT FULL TIME, I STILL HAVE TO WORK FOR SOMEONE ELSE) , I HAVE SPENT MONEY AND TIME ON TRAINING WHERE PART OF THE DEAL WAS ASSISTING THE PRO AT A WEDDING( IT JUST SO HAPPENED THAT WE GOT ON WELL AND HAVE WORKED MAY TIME AFTER THIS..ALL FOR FREE), THE WAY I HAVE SET THIS UP IF THE WAY I HAVE BEEN TAUGHT, ONCE I DECIDE WHO WILL HELP I WILL THEN MEET TO IRON OUT ANY ISSUES THAT WE HAVE BETWEEN US.

I HAVE RECIVED MANY PMS REGARDING ASSISTANCE AND WILL LATER/ NEXT WEEK CONTACT ALL THE LET THEM KNOW WHAT MY INTENTIONS ARE.....

DONT WORRY ALL YOU NEGATIVE PEOPLE..WE WILL LET YOU KNOW SO WE CAN INDURE MORE NEGATIVE ABUSE LOL
 
If I had the balls to do this I'd snap your arm off.

Don't understand the negatives being posted here. Other threads stating the best way to start wedding togging is to go second shooter and here is the ideal opportunity for someone to do that. The OP has been open about what he's after and I'm sure between him and any potential 2nd shooter they'll be able to work out any issues beforehand.

Good luck to whoever gets it and respect to jimjam for offering the opportunity :thumbs:
 
I might even have thrown myself in on this to second shoot, but it'll be a cold day in hell before I use someone elses camera, never mind that fact that I wouldn't swap from Nikon to Canon for a wedding. Just the thought of that sends shivers down my spine, The controls ARE very different between cameras, and a few minutes is not enough to get used to how it works, never mind the foibles of the metering.

Pete

P.S. Sorry you didn't want more comments, but that's how I feel.
 
dlh said:
If I had the balls to do this I'd snap your arm off.
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You can do it. have faith. The first wedding I did was in a castle and I did it completely on my own. B&G loved the shots and ordered loads and loads! Then I did 1 as a second shooter and one WITH a second shooter (ekimeno) and then another solo one 2 weeks ago.

You wont be on your own.. give it a go, its great fun once you get started. :thumbs:
 
dlh said:
If I had the balls to do this I'd snap your arm off.

Don't understand the negatives being posted here. Other threads stating the best way to start wedding togging is to go second shooter and here is the ideal opportunity for someone to do that. The OP has been open about what he's after and I'm sure between him and any potential 2nd shooter they'll be able to work out any issues beforehand.

Good luck to whoever gets it and respect to jimjam for offering the opportunity :thumbs:
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Hey Dont be put off by not having the balls!!! LOL

im not asking for someone who knows everything , this could be an oppertunity for you to even just come for the day and watch /pass me things / get a feel for it and if you feel confident "take some shots"...

up to you..if you are intrested PM me a little about what you do or want to do
 
MAYBE..JUST MAYBE..I SHOULD HAVE WORDED THE HEADING

"ASSISTANCE WANTED AT A WEDDING " LOL

CHANGING MY POST TO

FANCY COMING ALONG TO WATCH/ASSIST ME IN A WEDDING IN JUNE IN ESSEX...PLEASE PM ME FOR MORE DETAIL LOL

It seems that an issue is that i want the "person" to use my camera gear...

Maybe this dosnt suit everyone...but what about if someone only had a the basic equipment and was not sufficent for the job

The 1st wedding i had a 2nd shooter the guy had a 400D and lenses that had a max AV of 4, in my opinon & how i have shot / learnt 2.8 is needed, maybe i am wrong and if the right guy/girl comes along and has the equipment we could come to an arrangement...but as far as i see it i want to give the B & G all the photos of there MAGICAL day, THERE IS ALLWAYS A WAY ROUND THINGS, as some one has stated (good idea), they could use one of my cards..
as long as i have the rights to them to show B&G, then you can start another debate about them not being my photos...

AGAIN..THE REASON TO MEET BEFORE

DONT THINK EITHER WAY I COULD WIN...LOL
 
Janice and Jamie, thanks for the gentle nudge but I know my limits (at the moment anyway). Lack of balls I hope won't be a physical impairment after going under the knife this coming Saturday :help:
 
dlh said:
J Lack of balls I hope won't be a physical impairment after going under the knife this coming Saturday :help:
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OMG:gag: too much info - why would anyone put themselves through that voluntarily? :eek:
 
It isn't voluntarily!
 
dlh said:
Janice and Jamie, thanks for the gentle nudge but I know my limits (at the moment anyway). Lack of balls I hope won't be a physical impairment after going under the knife this coming Saturday :help:
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HOw wierd.. i have had a Vacectomy today lol

dont worry it dont hurt...the worst bit is the needle for anastic

if thats what you are having
 
Why is it that whenver the "Wedding" word is mentioned in a thread the OP seems to be deluged with doom and gloom merchants?
For once someone is proactively offering the chance of second shooter rather than others begging for the opportunity.
God save us from the experts and perfectionists - they really P me off.
Good luck jimjam and whoever shoots with you :)
 
haggis said:
Why is it that whenver the "Wedding" word is mentioned in a thread the OP seems to be deluged with doom and gloom merchants?
For once someone is proactively offering the chance of second shooter rather than others begging for the opportunity.
God save us from the experts and perfectionists - they really P me off.
Good luck jimjam and whoever shoots with you :)
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COULDNT HAVE PUT IT BETTER MYSELF
 
jimjam said:
HOw wierd.. i have had a Vacectomy today lol

dont worry it dont hurt...the worst bit is the needle for anastic

if thats what you are having
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Sorry for taking this OT :) Whilst it's very tempting to have the vasectomy as well, I have a 5 inch cyst waiting to be chopped out under general. I shan't be posting pics :D
 
dlh said:
Sorry for taking this OT :) Whilst it's very tempting to have the vasectomy as well, I have a 5 inch cyst waiting to be chopped out under general. I shan't be posting pics :D
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OOO SORRY.. I JUST PRESUMED.. MUST HAVE IT IN MY MIND..

GOOD LUCK......
 
dlh said:
Sorry for taking this OT :) Whilst it's very tempting to have the vasectomy as well, I have a 5 inch cyst waiting to be chopped out under general. I shan't be posting pics :D
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best of luck - and - err - no pics is just fine this time!
 
haggis said:
Why is it that whenver the "Wedding" word is mentioned in a thread the OP seems to be deluged with doom and gloom merchants?
For once someone is proactively offering the chance of second shooter rather than others begging for the opportunity.
God save us from the experts and perfectionists - they really P me off.
Good luck jimjam and whoever shoots with you :)
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Your sig says it all!
"Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it"

Some of just try to look a head a little - based on experience!
 
JimJam I wasn't trying to be negative so sorry if it sounded like I was. I was just trying to clarify in my mind how your arranegemt would work.

I am certainly not in a possition to criticise how people get into weddings. I might talk like I have experience but I don't. I have recently done my first two. No I have had no training. No I have not assisted anyone. No I have not acted as second shooter. I simply approached it as a business and made sure I knew what wa expected and that I could deliver before I agreed to it. Oh and both couples loved the results - anyone going to tell me that isn't what counts the most?

If any pro wedding togs think I shouldn't be doing it - well I don't really give a FF what they think. I am building a business and it is my business to do with as I please - succeed or fail I will have myself to thank or blame. I dont follow the usual rules.

Bring on the parranoia :)

Good luck with this Jimjam and best of luck to your chosen second shooter. We all start somewhere and I am only seeking to understand different angles.

AWP - get off your high horse. You don't do weddings so how can you tell anyone else how they should be doing it?
 
AndyB said:
AWP - get off your high horse. You don't do weddings so how can you tell anyone else how they should be doing it?
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I don't do weddings - but in the past I have done dozens - I know the problems - and the joys - weddings are a great training gound - but you have to have a certain level of competence to take one on - photo skills are only part of it - being able to direct people - without pizzing them off is also very important. Trust me, I speak from experience. I have 30 years experience of shooting all sorts of situations - some of it might be worth listening to.
 
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