Anyone published in MailOnline

KIPAX

KIPAX

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KIPAX Lancashire UK
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I send my sports pictures to all the nationals.. get lucky sometimes..

But the Daily mail who are on my list keep using my pics in the "mailonline" and simply wont pay ..

Has anyone managed to get paid and if so.. how?

Phone gets the run around.. emails get ignored..
 
Have a look at Editorial Photographers UK (epuk.org) they have lots of advice, model letters etc. They also have an email discussion list so aign up to that and the members will give you specific names of who to contact too.

Before you challenge the Mail make sure you have screen grabs of all usages. Do you if they've been published in the paper too?
 
Same boat here mate, i was dealing with Angie Dixon who now chooses to ignore emails, she rang me on way back from warrington asking for a specific photo from Championship Grand Final of the MOM Michael Wainright as they were running an article on him, they used it online and in print.

Even had the cheek to ask if i could supply them Super League on a regular casis as they were struggling to get RL Photos from anywhere else.
 
Sounds like there's an opportunity, if only they'd get round to paying you! You could always chase their accounts dept? Have they at any point taken details for BACs?
 
danphillips said:
Sounds like there's an opportunity, if only they'd get round to paying you! You could always chase their accounts dept? Have they at any point taken details for BACs?
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Theyve got all my details by email and in image data

i suspect they were struggling to get photos because of situations like this
 
Are your images supplied for 'single usage'? I have questioned web usage before, not with the mailonline, and I was informed I didn't have the image marked as (Quote) 'single usage code 07'. The 'code 07' I presumed to be an internal copyright usage code.
 
Gary Coyle said:
Theyve got all my details by email and in image data

i suspect they were struggling to get photos because of situations like this
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Almost definitely. I suggest you speak to their accounts dept, and maybe someone senior on the pic desk. Ask to be set up on their 'self billing system'. This is an internal system where once you are on it payment 'should' be automatic. This is probably as much laziness on their part as you wouldn't normally expect to see bank details in an IPTC field.

But if you think they're going to be difficult, get screen grabs
 
I am on the daily mail self billing.. al my pictures contan NO FREE USAGE notices in the IPTC and also all my bank details... they simply dont want to pay

Had same with daily mirror ages ago... and both papers still have the pics on the website..one is a yr ago..

Heard from other people they struggle to get paid for online usage..

Wondered if anyone managed it.. I appreciate the words of advice from posters.. but has anyone actually been paid for online usage ?
 
danphillips said:
Almost definitely. I suggest you speak to their accounts dept, and maybe someone senior on the pic desk. Ask to be set up on their 'self billing system'. This is an internal system where once you are on it payment 'should' be automatic. This is probably as much laziness on their part as you wouldn't normally expect to see bank details in an IPTC field.

But if you think they're going to be difficult, get screen grabs
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all common sense and already done... as for billing details in IPTC? Why woudlnt you expect it?.. everyone I know does it..
 
srichards said:
If they don't pay, why send them anything at all?
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Pictures are sent to the daily mail newspaper.. if published in the paper they pay.. however if they use the pictures instead on the www ie mailonline then they dont seem to pay...

If I Dont send them anyhting then I cut of a possible revenue stream with the paper..

I think the term is "cutting off your nose to spite your face" :)
 
srichards said:
If they don't pay, why send them anything at all?
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Just what I was thinking too and also kind of out of character for how Kipax comes across on here;)

Ah, so you do get them published as well, that's a different story then!
 
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I have heard on the EPUK discussion list people actually getting paid for online stuff. Apparently they have a sliding scale structure where they pay x for the first picture in an article and then a decreasing amount for each one. So someone, somewhere, must have been paid! And all those paparazzi agencies whose images they use by the dozen each day must surely get paid eventually.
 
Mikesphotaes said:
Just what I was thinking too and also kind of out of character for how Kipax comes across on here;)
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Can you explain the last personal comment please?

Mikesphotaes said:
Ah, so you do get them published as well, that's a different story then!
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Thats not what i wrote.

Pictures are sent to the daily mail newspaper.. if published in the paper they pay.. however if they use the pictures instead on the www ie mailonline then they dont seem to pay...
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Can you not include a clause in the covering letter stating that any online usage will be charged at £x@##? I'm not sure how much you make from images they actually pay for - can you sell the same images elsewhere to offset any loses if they drop you?
 
KIPAX said:
Pictures are sent to the daily mail newspaper.. if published in the paper they pay.. however if they use the pictures instead on the www ie mailonline then they dont seem to pay...

If I Dont send them anyhting then I cut of a possible revenue stream with the paper..

I think the term is "cutting off your nose to spite your face" :)
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Can you submit work via an agency instead? I doubt if they'd show such disregard for agency pictures. Action Images seem to have a decent reputation but I don't know what cut they take.

Any robust action to make them pay may just result in them deciding they don't want your images for print either so it's damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Can you set your prices higher to cover their unauthorised use and build it into the pricing?
 
Nod said:
Can you not include a clause in the covering letter stating that any online usage will be charged at £x@##? I'm not sure how much you make from images they actually pay for - can you sell the same images elsewhere to offset any loses if they drop you?
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Pictures are sent without a covering letter.. all info is in the IPTC.. Caption of what the pic is about.. all the photogrpahers personal details and copyright and bank details.. Right under each caption I place block capitols NO UNPAID USE.. They must have read the aption to find and know what the picture is


the same picture is sent to all national newspapers.. its the same email to all so no extra work..

Like I say.. they pay if used in the paper but not online (if used in paper and online then i dont mind.... if used online only then no pay).. no point not sending as it cuts off a revenue stream.. Its hard enough trying to make ends meet when your full time at this without cutting people off :)
 
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srichards said:
Can you submit work via an agency instead? I doubt if they'd show such disregard for agency pictures. Action Images seem to have a decent reputation but I don't know what cut they take.
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agencies are 70/30 in photogrpahers favour.. however I am an agency so I ahve as much rights as the others.. I just aint as big :) but I still get 100%

srichards said:
Can you set your prices higher to cover their unauthorised use and build it into the pricing?
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You dont set the price.. the paper does... its standard practice.. I am doing the same as all other sports photorpahers doing the same job so no matter how odd it sounds.. thats the way it works..
 
srichards said:
Any robust action to make them pay may just result in them deciding they don't want your images for print either so it's damned if you do and damned if you don't.
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which is why I ahve not asked for advice what to do or how to get the money. I know all the standard answers:) My question was.. has anyone else been paid for the same scenario and if so how... it would seem not :(
 
Only time I've been paid for images that were online only was when submitting via an agency, a huge £11 something per image, if I recall correctly. I'm also fairly sure when its been in the paper too its listed as two separate amounts, so in theory you should get paid.

As has been said, get on the EPUG list and ask there, and someone will have the answer.

Good luck :)
 
treeman said:
Only time I've been paid for images that were online only was when submitting via an agency, a huge £11 something per image, if I recall correctly. I'm also fairly sure when its been in the paper too its listed as two separate amounts, so in theory you should get paid.
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thats the problem.. its NOT been used in the paper.. to be honest if it was used in paper it would be paid for and I wouldnt be bothered about online... its the mailonline simply using images online and not paying.. not going in paper either.. thats just wrong..

If they pay me 100 quid for a pic used in paper then i dont mind them also using it online..

If they only use online and pay nothing.. thats wrong..
 
admirable said:
Are your images supplied for 'single usage'? I have questioned web usage before, not with the mailonline, and I was informed I didn't have the image marked as (Quote) 'single usage code 07'. The 'code 07' I presumed to be an internal copyright usage code.
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sorry just read this proper.. I would think my NO UNPAID USE right under/part of ..the caption that they have defnitely read would stand up.. hopefully :)

thanks i will go look into 'single usage code 07'
 
KIPAX said:
thats the problem.. its NOT been used in the paper.. to be honest if it was used in paper it would be paid for and I wouldnt be bothered about online... its the mailonline simply using images online and not paying.. not going in paper either.. thats just wrong..
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No quite, I did say I've been paid for online use only images too but it was through an agency. My point is, if they agency got paid, for online images, you should too :)
 
treeman said:
No quite, I did say I've been paid for online use only images too but it was through an agency. My point is, if they agency got paid, for online images, you should too :)
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Agreed.. just becasue I am a smaller agency.... hence my post asking if anyone had and how.. yours is through an agency..

I need to step up my assault :)
 
Hi Tony - I get paid for Mirror online, Sun online and Mail online shows. Same scenario as yours but the billing relationship is between the papers and my agency.

I don't check the online sites as it's just too much hassle, so every payment is a happy surprise.

You should be getting paid though, that's for sure.
 
KIPAX said:
thats the problem.. its NOT been used in the paper.. to be honest if it was used in paper it would be paid for and I wouldnt be bothered about online... its the mailonline simply using images online and not paying.. not going in paper either.. thats just wrong..

If they pay me 100 quid for a pic used in paper then i dont mind them also using it online..

If they only use online and pay nothing.. thats wrong..
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But surely if they are two separate things then paying 100 quid for publishing then using it free online is still wrong even though you don't mind?

Even if its being used they should pay, no matter where or how many times its used

Its been used online and it should be paid for regardless, frustrating I know but if they think they have got a freebie once (even if it wasn't inte4nded that way with them paying 100 for in print) then they will play on it in future
 
treeman said:
No quite, I did say I've been paid for online use only images too but it was through an agency. My point is, if they agency got paid, for online images, you should too :)
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same story for me
 
Tony I have just been paid for 2 uses used online only!. but you'll need to keep chasing it up I'm afraid. I'm still waiting for a paper payment though :(.
I could PM you an email that may help if you want?. Kind regards Graham.
 
Just a quick clarification to my earlier post - if my images are used in print, then neither I nor my agency get anything if they are used online on the same day. That's the way it appears to work.

If they are used online and not used in print, I do get paid.

It therefore appears that use in print "trumps" online use on the day of publication.

Hope that makes sense.
 
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Gary Coyle said:
Oops, my mistake, its the Times/Sunday Times im having problems with,

I'm surprised at this Gary?.
I've never had any problems with the Times! in fact they've even rang me to tell me I'd a payment due! + even emailed me a tear sheet :)
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KIPAX said:
Can you explain the last personal comment please?

Simply that you don't come across as a fella who would give away photos for free to a newspaper.



Thats not what i wrote.
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Indeed, well that's how it came across to me, based on your opening post.


Absolutely no point quoting from your reply in post 12, 1 minute before my reply.

I just scanned it and quickly changed my post agreeing with Suz.

You certainly never mentioned getting paid in your first post.


Hope this is sufficient explanation of the "personal" comment, it's certainly clearer than your opening post!
 
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Bluesman graham said:
Gary Coyle said:
Oops, my mistake, its the Times/Sunday Times im having problems with,

I'm surprised at this Gary?.
I've never had any problems with the Times! in fact they've even rang me to tell me I'd a payment due! + even emailed me a tear sheet :)
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You cant email me a contact can you, ive only got Angie Dixon on the sports desk and Tom in accounts

Theyve been a pain, never any problems when i put rlphotos as the copyright as it then comes through them, a couple of year ago i didnt get paid for about 8 months and even they tried to say it was only used online but i got hold of the print version and it was in there as well, they tried to pay £14 for £125 worth of pic.
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Bluesman graham said:
Tony I have just been paid for 2 uses used online only!. but you'll need to keep chasing it up I'm afraid. I'm still waiting for a paper payment though :(.
I could PM you an email that may help if you want?. Kind regards Graham.
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Thats done the trick.. I had emailed everyone wiht a accessible email and nothing.. I could never have found that contact... all sorted now.. am going to be paid for the instances i sent in and all future usage will be paid auto..

THANKS :)
 
Phew! I thought you had lost your bottle there KIPAX and were going to let them have it for FREE seeing as they had credited you.:lol::clap:
 
KIPAX said:
they didnt even credit me :(
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Try checking the online photos for intact IPTC.

They often leave it in when they haven't posted an open credit.

Not much use to you, but that's how they seem to work.

In terms of dosh, the DM online seem to pay £40ish for a set and similar for repeats.
 
Bit of a result then!
 
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