Anyone know employment law?

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barneyrubble

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Hope someone does *** I sure don't.

My whole department has been put on notice of redundancy. There are nine of us. The company has decided to disband that department. They have created a new department with only 6 posts in it. Obviously 9 into 6 won't go.The work is pretty much the same, with a couple of additional responsibilities.

We have been told we will be (or not in the case of three members of staff) offered one of the three new types of role (1*team lead, s* senior, 3* junior), and that it will be picked by the current manager and offered to us as "Suitable alternative employment". Whilst this is all fine legally (I think) the bit that we are concerned about is the last bit, which is that if our salary is out of band with the new roles then it will be adjusted to fit the bands. To most of us, that seems like saying "you'll take a pay cut".

Again, I'm pretty sure that this makes the Alternative employment "unsuitable" and therefore we are back in the redundancy situation (which is actually a good thing for me). ACAS have confirmed this, but I was talking to an advisor rather than someone with any legal qualifications (as far as I know).

Does anyone have any commnets on the above?

Thanks for reading.....
 
Am I reading that right - a manager will pick the six people to be offered the new positions? If so that would be considered unfair criteria for redundancy because the choice is being based on the opinion of an individual which is a big :nono:

I've got some experience with employment law, the last time I worked full time and made redundant I went to tribunal but settled a few days before via ACAS when the employer finally realised they couldn't win for this exact reason.
 
talk to a specialist lawyer and/or a union. That sounds very dodgy to me. But the stakes on this sort of thing are high enough that you want the correct specialist advice.

The creation of a new department which carries out the same functions sounds like an attempt to circumvent the rules which are there to protect employees.
 
who? said:
The creation of a new department which carries out the same functions sounds like an attempt to circumvent the rules which are there to protect employees.
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I agree. I hope there is someone suitably qualified on the forum, but if there isn't you really would be better off speaking to someone with the relevant quals.
 
Speaking as an ex employer... employment law is a minefield and any employer would be daft to go into something like this without having taken advice. If you think they could be that daft and you are describing things correctly then you could have some come back against them. Not that I really know.... we always took advice :)
 
barneyrubble said:
...and therefore we are back in the redundancy situation (which is actually a good thing for me).
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If you would prefer redundancy you can volunteer for it and in the process work out a favourable deal with your employer :thumbs:
 
Definately take proper legal advice. I thought there was some sort of points thing employers had to use that takes into account performance, attendance record and other such things, but I stand to be corrected on that.
 
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pxl8 said:
Am I reading that right - a manager will pick the six people to be offered the new positions? If so that would be considered unfair criteria for redundancy because the choice is being based on the opinion of an individual which is a big :nono:

I've got some experience with employment law, the last time I worked full time and made redundant I went to tribunal but settled a few days before via ACAS when the employer finally realised they couldn't win for this exact reason.
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That's basically what we have been told will happen. What they are effectively doing is making all the roles redundant, then taking what they consider to be the 6 best fits to the new roles.

We have been told there will be no chance of voluntary redundancy as they want to keep the best people.
 
pxl8 said:
Acas are a good first port of call, free and, in my experience, very helpful.

http://www.acas.org.uk/
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I phoned ACAS today, thanks for the advice. It seems they can't force us to take the lower salaries that they keep talking about, as the employment is not seen to be suitable alternative if the pay is lower.

At least that's one good thing :thumbs:
 
another point to note is legally you cant make someone redundant, then employ somone else to do a similar role on a less salary.
 
In this case, it appears that they are not employing someone else they are just changing the jobs of the existing employees and reducing the number thus creating a legitimate redundancy situation.
 
barneyrubble said:
That's basically what we have been told will happen. What they are effectively doing is making all the roles redundant, then taking what they consider to be the 6 best fits to the new roles.

We have been told there will be no chance of voluntary redundancy as they want to keep the best people.
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Without knowing the details it's a little hard to say exactly but there could be a case of unfair selection. However as you would prefer the redundancy I would wait and see what the new job is and if you're offered one. If the money is less or the position holds a lower status you can turn it down and accept the redundancy. At that point they might start playing games and saying it was suitable in which case ET is the next step.

I wouldn't worry about paying out for legal advice at this point. If you get to the ET stage it might be worth considering but the ET's aren't a court, they're quite informal and you'll get plenty of help and advice on what you need to do.

Of course all 9 of you could file for ET on the basis of unfair selection and gamble that you would receive a high pay out than just the redundancy, you've nothing to lose by doing so apart from the time and effort involved. With my own case it was clearly unfair selection and at the appeal we asked for a months pay as compo, they refused. In the end I settled for an offer of 6 months pay 3 days before the ET hearing having spent the day with calls between me, ACAS and their solicitor. The cheque arrived 2 days before Christmas :thumbs:
 
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