Anyone know anything about gas fire fitting?

DorsetDude

DorsetDude

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Last winter I was getting blasts of cold air via my gas fire into my lounge, so I sealed the whole thing off with a big bit of cardboard and just used the central heating.
This year I paid (£300 odd) a "Fireplace Doctor" to come and sort out the fire. He put a new, higher flue on the roof, serviced the fire and put a new "front" on it.
All's been well, until last night. Sitting there without the fire on I again notice cold air coming in through the gas fire.
This fireplace geezer reckons it might be because the hot air in my lounge rising is effectively sucking cold air down the flue into my lounge. Great.
So I lit the gas fire to try and stop the cold air, the lounge then starts to stink of gas within minutes.
It cant be rocket science to have a gas fire that doesnt fill the room with cold air can it?

Anyone know what need's doing before I ring the fireplace bloke again for a moan?

The fire is an "open" one with fake sort of "coal" if that helps.

Thanks.
 
DorsetDude said:
the lounge then starts to stink of gas within minutes.
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I can't answer your question but if you mean what you wrote I would say an emergency visit from the gas man is in order!
 
If the air is coming down the chimney rather than up, you have a dangerous situation, as it will be carrying exhaust gasses with it.
If you can smell gas that is even worse as burnt gas has no smell.
I suppose you can chance it.... and place a wager to see if you are gassed or blown up first.:eek:
 
I dont want to chance it, just would have been nice to have known what I want the bloke who fitted it to do before I ring him to complain.

I cant understand why, with an 8' flue sticking out of the roof, the cold air is still able to whistle down it and into the lounge. :thinking:
 
I have a similar fire. I don't get drafts blowing down the flue. Get a gas safe person out now as it sounds dangerous to me. It is in a false chimney and exits via the roof space.

Catalytic gas fires are one solution to the draft issue. They don't need a flue at all.
 
Some of these open fire effect fires need another air intake from either outside or another room to draw air into the room where the gas fire is fitted. If my memory serves me right, (now retired for 15 years) if the output of the fire is greater than 13.000btu's then the extra ventilation is required. As has been said GET A GAS WARM fitter in.
 
Cheers all

Who/what are gas safe/gas warm?

srichards said:
I have a similar fire. I don't get drafts blowing down the flue. Get a gas safe person out now as it sounds dangerous to me. It is in a false chimney and exits via the roof space.
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Sounds exact same as mine.
 
Gas Safe is the new name for CORGI
 
We have some thing similar (almost identical to the picture below). We don't get any cold air being drawn/blasted back in and certainly no smell of gas when lit. As others have said get it checked out.
stourhead_lytton_fireplace.jpg
 
Could be better getting someone not involved with the firm that installed your "faulty" setup to have a look (British Gas ?).
 
A good flue will suck air upwards out of the room without a fire. With a fire, it will suck even more air out. It should never blow air into the room.

Steve.
 
This depends on the situation of your chimney/flue pipe, there are regs to how far it must be above the tiles/slates and how far horizontally from the tiles, trees, valleys, hills etc can effect the air flow and cause downdraught, the reason it's more noticeable now is the air tends to be cold and falling.
You need both a spillage test and a flue flow test done, what I will say that these should be done after approx 10 minutes of the fire running to allow the chimney/flue to warm.
Having had a new fire fitted it must have an oxygen sensing pilot light that would extinguish the fire if the oxygen levels dropped.
Any "open flued" appliance is a danger and I'd advise...100%...that you get a carbon monoxide detector..£20 odd, life saver and money well spent.
 
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Just to add....don't get someone out of the paper who "says" they are gas safe registered, go on their website and put your post code in and a list of qualified tradesman will appear, to work on gas fires is a separate qualification and is listed on the back of the engineers gas safe card, always worth checking.
 
And more...the bit about hot air rising sucking cold air in is utter trash, if he's saying that I'd call him incompetent.
Another thing to note if it's "decorative" under regs it should have an unrestricted air vent bringing air into the room unless the manufacturers instruction state it is not required
 
Thanks for all that Martyn. The bloke when he came advised that the flue was not horizontally distant enough from my tiles, and thats why he put a new taller/longer one on.
He didnt "fit" my fire, it was already there, he just changed the front surround and grille bit, serviced it and installed the new flue. He told me it was a good make of fire and there was no need for me to buy a new one. An unscrupulous bloke I reckon would have tried to flog me a new one.

Maybe I'll pick a different bloke off the gas safe site and get them round for an indpendent check.

The monoxide detector a good idea. Can it be fitted anywhere in the living room?


Thanks.
 
Thanks Doug but looks like I need to pay to join to access the Which results. Im sure a Kite marked job from Wickes or somewhere should be fine though.
 
Most detectors are ok, the regs are a bit in depth on positioning, should be on the ceiling at least 1 metre away from the appliance otherwise on the wall as high as possible and above all windows but no closer than 150mm to the ceiling!...in the real world if you have a dresser put it in top of there ;)
Screwfix, plumb center, PTS or the like will sell them,
 
DorsetDude said:
Sitting there without the fire on I again notice cold air coming in through the gas fire.
This fireplace geezer reckons it might be because the hot air in my lounge rising is effectively sucking cold air down the flue into my lounge. Great.
So I lit the gas fire to try and stop the cold air, the lounge then starts to stink of gas within minutes.
It cant be rocket science to have a gas fire that doesnt fill the room with cold air can it?

Anyone know what need's doing before I ring the fireplace bloke again for a moan?

The fire is an "open" one with fake sort of "coal" if that helps.

Thanks.
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You've had some good advice already. I would ask the question, is the Fireplace Doctor a registered Gas Safe installer. Making a statement like "might be because the hot air in my lounge rising is effectively sucking cold air down the flue into my lounge" rings alarm bells immediately, if he isn't registered, he is breaking the law by doing this work. Check on his website for his registration number, then go to the Gas Safe website and look it up to see if its genuine, that's if he has one.
All that apart, your situation sounds dire, how may people in your house are at risk?, children? Are you prepared to mess about with you and yours health and safety, the results are potentially disastrous. Bite the bullet and call out either BG as an emergency if there is the slightest smell of gas, or a genuine gas safe installer, its not worth risking your lives by delaying.
 
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DorsetDude said:
I dont want to chance it, just would have been nice to have known what I want the bloke who fitted it to do before I ring him to complain.

I cant understand why, with an 8' flue sticking out of the roof, the cold air is still able to whistle down it and into the lounge. :thinking:
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We had our fireplace connected back up/sorted out a few years ago. Same situation as you, was not connected for a while so I blocked it off.

When the guy came to do it his first test was to set a smoke canister off in the fireplace to make sure the place vented properly. Did the guy who fitted yours do this?
 
RichardtheSane said:
When the guy came to do it his first test was to set a smoke canister off in the fireplace to make sure the place vented properly. Did the guy who fitted yours do this?
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That a good question. Its compulsory for a Gas Safe engineer to carry out a smoke test (amongst other tests) on a gas fire installation before he can issue you with a gas safe certificate of compliance. He did issue a certificate didn't he?
 
The compliance cert is something issued by gas safe Trev, not the individual installer.
The "smoke bomb" test is to check the chimney/flue is sound and no leaking to upstairs or into the roof area, the spillage test, done with a smoke match, is the one to test if fumes are spilling into the room.
 
As for is he competent ( i have a hatred of illegal gas workers) you can go onto the gas safe website and check, not only that he's registered but that his has the correct element required to work on gas fires.
Being gas safe registered allows an operative to install pipework only.....cookers, fires, boilers, water heaters, hot air units all require a separate qualification....they are listed on the back of the card (only once in 30 years has anyone looked at the back of my card!)
 
Martyn D said:
The compliance cert is something issued by gas safe Trev, not the individual installer.
The "smoke bomb" test is to check the chimney/flue is sound and no leaking to upstairs or into the roof area, the spillage test, done with a smoke match, is the one to test if fumes are spilling into the room.
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Cheers Martyn. Your right, but the smoke test to check the pull on the flue is done with the doors and windows closed in the room where the appliance is situated, and the fire run full on for 10 minutes before the smoke test/match is carried out. Normally a certified engineer will fill out a compliance form, he leaves one copy with the customer, one for himself, and a copy is sent to Gas Safe for their records. This was the case 12 months ago unless anything has changed recently and I'll stand corrected (y)
 
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I had the exact same problem with that kind of thing years ago. Despite fitting a cowl to the chimney pot, the cold air would blow down the chimey and cause the flame in the four elements to flicker and waver. Towards the end, I got so fed up with it that I paid someone to take away the gas heater, closed up the little hole leading to the chimney with a bit of plywood and silicon glue and fitted a £100 brushed-steel electric fake coal effect heater in it's place. So much better and it looks nicer (the old gas fire was looking dated anyway) - and it doesn't really cost me that much to heat up what is a small box-like living room now that I've eliminated the draughts (cheaper than gas anyway).
 
Trev, I'm not sure where you've got your information from about the compliance form' but it's not correct either now or 12 months ago.
 
chphotos said:
Trev, I'm not sure where you've got your information from about the compliance form' but it's not correct either now or 12 months ago.
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OK, I'll stand corrected. but I am going from my own experience. I had two gas fires fitted, one in my house and one in my MiL's house. In both cases the fitter left a Gas Safe certificate stating the details of the installation together with his registration number and the name and address of the installation. From that it seemed that it was the norm to leave a certificate.

Either way, when someone says they can smell gas when a fire is lit, does scare me, and I know there are many non registered people doing gas work that are taking advantage of people not realising the legal requirements and training needed to be a registered fitter.
 
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Trev4 said:
OK, I'll stand corrected. but I am going from my own experience. I had two gas fires fitted, one in my house and one in my MiL's house. In both cases the fitter left a Gas Safe certificate stating the details of the installation together with his registration number and the name and address of the installation. From that it seemed that it was the norm to leave a certificate.
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You are right with saying the gas safety cert Trev...3 copies, 1 for the installer, 1 for the person in the property and 1 for the landlord (if its rented)...As Cliff has said, the other cert for installing a new boiler is from gas safe as the installation has to be registered with them (and you have to pay for the privilege!)
 
Martyn D said:
You are right with saying the gas safety cert Trev...3 copies, 1 for the installer, 1 for the person in the property and 1 for the landlord (if its rented)...As Cliff has said, the other cert for installing a new boiler is from gas safe as the installation has to be registered with them (and you have to pay for the privilege!)
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Cheers Martyn, obviously I got the wrong terminology regarding the certificates, thanks for clearing that up for me (y) I'm pleased that essentially I was on the right track albeit not quite right.
 
Phew a lot of questions to answer. Firstly it's only me there risking my life as it were.
He did do a smoke match test. Cant remember if he gave me a gas safe certificate or not. Would one be issued for just a service? It wasnt an installation, I already had the fire, just didnt use it due to the draughts.

A monoxide detector on top of one of my bookcases sounds a plan then. Saves me having to do any DIY which I am terrible at.

Steve Smith said:
Absolutely. The hottest gases will be in the flue and they should be going up.
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When the fire's on yes. But when its not and I am just sitting in the lounge how can the cold draughts whistling down the flue and in be prevented?

Martyn D said:
As for is he competent ( i have a hatred of illegal gas workers) you can go onto the gas safe website and check, not only that he's registered but that his has the correct element required to work on gas fires.
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How do I do this? Search on telephone number? Company name? Chaps name? Or just trawl through the whole list for my area? Off for another look anyway.

Cheers all.

EDIT: I've just found him on the gas safe site (after wading through all the unexpected error pages), he has a reg number and it all looks kosher.
 
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DorsetDude said:
When the fire's on yes. But when its not and I am just sitting in the lounge how can the cold draughts whistling down the flue and in be prevented?
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Without the fire lit, the flue should still be trying to draw air out of the room, not into it.

A while ago, a friend was having similar problems, although in her case it was a chimney on a log burner. It would occcasionally blow smoke into the room. We eventually traced it to the chimney in the adjacent room. This had an open fireplace and the draw from it was enough to pull air from the room with the log burner when the doors were open, causing it to pull air from the log burner's chimney.


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
Don't get a CORGI guy out as they don't exist any more. Gas Safe is what you need.


Steve.
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Yes they're called gas safe these days, they needed more money so they made all the corgi fitters pay to lean how to do their jobs again

Are you sure it's gas you can smell, ours stinks a bit if it hasn't been used over the summer but all it's doing is burning dust off
 
Gas safe are nothing to do with Corgi, the body that oversees the registered operatives went out to tender and corgi lost it, they still exist but now are not connect with the HSE as Gas Safe are.
Gas engineers have to be reassessed every 5 years by a training centre, this has nothing to do with gas safe so they don't get any money from it and depending on the number of elements you hold the assessment will be over a grand.
Gas safe have no legal clout either, ones they are prosecuted are done so by the HSE
 
Too much internet questions here and not enough asking establishing professional engineers about a very serious problem. I don't get how how anyone can fanny about with a gas problem.

Man on the way down says - "Do you know anything about parachutes" passes man on the way up who says "No, you know anything about gas fires".

Bang - bang.
 
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wack61 said:
Are you sure it's gas you can smell, ours stinks a bit if it hasn't been used over the summer but all it's doing is burning dust off
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Gas has an added smell so you can tell if you have a leak. A very small amount of gas smells quite bad.

However, I think the OP is talking about flue gas coming into the room rather than unburnt gas.


Steve.
 
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