Anyone here on strike tomorrow?

[joescrivens]

You mean people who didn't really want the job took the job for the £1000 payout from the government to do the PGCE and then left as the job didn't suit them?

no I mean the people who went into a profession to teach children but realised they can earn more money and have an easier life with less stress sitting at a desk punching numbers in the private sector - I'm one of them!

 

[nilagin]

So where are these teachers that do "a LOT less than your standard 9-5 person with 20 days annual leave and 10 public holidays"

My job at work involves me being a part time group leader (I stand in for full time group leaders when they are not available due to sickness, holiday etc). I get 10% extra on my basic pay for the time period I have to cover.

Daily work routine, read line up from previous shift detailing what has been done on a series of jobs, from that information decide from my colleagues decide who is going to cover what jobs and delegate who does what to th ebest of their ability and make sure they are happy to do so.

Plan the jobs so that if there are a number of things to be done, time can be used effectively so that if possible more than one thing can be done at a time.

Jobs we don't have the labour to cover, I will look to see if there is anything that can be covered by another department in the mean time and have it done accordingly.

Make sure the apprentice has a constructive job to do where he will learn new skills rather than a menial task that he will gain nothing from. Periodically check on the apprentice throughout the shift making sure he is doing the task properly if he is working on his own.

Assist colleagues with their jobs as and when they require it.

Walk round the department with foreman or managers when the arrive and report on progress of all jobs and remember any information that they come up with that I will need to pass onto following shifts.

Order supplies from the stores as and when they are needed, if someone has a free moment ask them to get said items, if not get them myself.

Take items to inspection department as and when required, fill in paperwork for said items and follow up to pass on info to following shift.

Telephone for maintenance department to fix something if it has broken down or help fix it if it is within our capability.

Answer the telephone to other departments questions regarding some of the jobs we have done etc. all whilst working a job of my own to the same degree had I not been leading the group that day or week so that work colleagues don't feel they are doing all the work and I can keep them working as a team.

At the end of the shift write a line up for the following shift so there is a record of what has been done on the jobs and what needs to be done next.

None of this can be pre-planned as I have no idea of what I will walk into on any given day, other than if we were the last shift in on the Friday evening and first in on Monday morning. To make life easier for mainly for myself and indirectly my work colleagues, I'll continue to do alot of this even when I'm not being paid to do it, especially as I will need to remember where things are, what has been done or needs doing, rather than having to search around to find the information or whatever the next time I am group leader.

All after I've been to the gym before work and also during the two lunch breaks I get each week.

Do I find my job which is both mental and physically demanding hard or complain? No it's what I applied and signed up for.
Do I think most teachers have it easy by comparison for workload, most definitely.

 

[joescrivens]

Do I think most teachers have it easy by comparison for workload, most definitely.

try standing in front of 30 kids who have no interest in hearing about how sodium bonds with chlorine and getting them on task for an hour.

what you described sounds a breeze in comparison.

 

[Dale_tem]

Yup those are the ones that people don't get.

In your experience, but in my experience of being in schools I see quite a few teachers in the staffroom, ICT suite etc. for long periods during lesson times doing their PPA.


If someone went into a job to teach, but left because of the money, they didn't go into it to teach.

Less stress? Private sector? Are you serious? perhaps if you work in McDs.

I personally don't know anyone who works 9-5 and achieves a really good wage. I know people who leave the office at 5, but work most evenings. I know people who entertain clients 3 evenings a week on top of their 9-5 and work a good few hours over the weekend. I know people who go to work over 100 miles away on Sunday night and get back on Friday night so that they earn enough to cover their bills.

 

[Dale_tem]

try standing in front of 30 kids who have no interest in hearing about how sodium bonds with chlorine and getting them on task for an hour.

what you described sounds a breeze in comparison.

sounds like bad teaching

So that is one hour of your day, does anything else happen? Did you have any marking from the practical lesson? did you do this during breaktime?

 

[Richard King]

try standing in front of 30 kids who have no interest in hearing about how sodium bonds with chlorine and getting them on task for an hour.

what you described sounds a breeze in comparison.

I still don't get why we are only talking about teachers. How hard or not the job is is not the question. I reckon dustmen in the winter would happily put another point of view over.

The public services employ a range of people, and virtually all of the roles have a private employment equivalent (including teaching).

I know plenty of teachers who work in private schools, and train for corporate companies.

The fact of the mater is that the current pension system is unsustainable, and something needs to be done about it. Something should have been done about it a long time ago, but that's another argument in itself. The moment we start singling out professions as a special case, or that they deserve more than another, you are going down a divisive slippery slope

 

[joescrivens]

Less stress? Private sector? Are you serious? perhaps if you work in McDs.

yup! my jobs in the private sector have all been less stressful than my teaching jobs.

I personally don't know anyone who works 9-5 and achieves a really good wage.

Well, then let me introduce myself to you. I'm Joe, I work 9-5 and earn twice what i did whilst teaching on less hours and less stress. Now you can say that you know 1 person at least

 

[joescrivens]

sounds like bad teaching

So that is one hour of your day, does anything else happen? Did you have any marking from the practical lesson? did you do this during breaktime?

What sounds like bad teaching? Trying to teach something that is mandatory on the curriculum to 30 bottom set kids who don't want to know about ionic bonding? I didn't say anything about how the actual lesson would be conducted.

Yup, I had 5 other lessons where it's a constant uphill struggle to deliver the kids the curriculum. I had some marking to do, but i'll have to leave that till after school because breaktime was spent either on duty or disciplining the kids who messed around or helping some other children who either needed more explanation or help with their coursework

 

[joescrivens]

I still don't get why we are only talking about teachers. How hard or not the job is is not the question. I reckon dustmen in the winter would happily put another point of view over.

Well I was a milkman for 9 years through cold winters, easier than teaching by a mile -especially from all the cups of tea and invites into other peoples wives houses

dustman however I would say should be paid double what they get, I couldn't do that job in a million years, nothing to do with cold winters though, all to do with the stench!

 

[fracster]

15 pages and people still have not learned that Joe is always right and can ramble on repeating the same thing ad infinitum.............

 

[joescrivens]

15 pages and people still have not learned that Joe is always right and can ramble on repeating the same thing ad infinitum.............

 

[Byker28i]

try standing in front of 30 kids who have no interest in hearing about how sodium bonds with chlorine and getting them on task for an hour.

what you described sounds a breeze in comparison.

I have no idea, but I guess it depends on age. Perhaps getting one of the class to stand up as Sodium and get another to stand close - called chlorine? Perhaps use magnets.
Kids learn well when you interact with them and make things fun.
I didn't do chemistry. Any chance of an explosion or smoke, or does it just make salt?

Sounds like fun and a breeze to be honest


P.S. If you really want to get kids interested in Chemistry, just occaisionall y throw in a recipe such as:

Colored Smoke Bomb Materials

60 g (3 tablespoons) potassium nitrate (sold as saltpeter in garden supply shops)
40 g (2 tablespoons) sugar
1 teaspoon baking soda
60 g (3 tablespoons) powdered organic dye (such as synthetic indigo or an aniline-based dye, found in some craft & hobby shops; not common water-based dye)
cardboard tube (best is an iced push-pop tube (eat the treat first), or you could use a toilet paper roll or section of paper towel tube, or even a rolled/taped paper tube)
duct tape
pen or pencil
firework fuse (hardware, rocketry, construction, or hobby shops, or scavenge it from a firework)
cotton balls
saucepan

Make the Colored Smoke Bomb Mixture

Mix 60 g potassium nitrate with 40 g sugar in a saucepan over low heat. It's a 3:2 ratio, so if you don't have grams, use three large spoonfuls of potassium nitrate and two large spoonfuls of sugar (3 tablespoons and 2 tablespoons, if you feel the need to be precise).
The sugar will carmelize and brown. Stir the mixture continuously until it resembles smooth peanut butter.
Remove the mixture from heat.
Stir in a spoonful of baking soda (rounded teaspoon is fine). The baking soda is added to slow down the combustion when the smoke bomb is ignited.
Add three large spoonfuls (3 tablespoons) of powdered organic dye. Blue dye and orange dye are said to produce better results than the other colors. Stir to mix well.
Construct the smoke bomb while the mixture is still hot and pliable.

Assemble the Smoke Bomb

Fill a cardboard tube with the warm smoke bomb mixture.
Push a pen or pencil down into the center of the mix (doesn't have to be all the way to the bottom but should be enough that the pen stands in the mixture). You could use a different shape, but the cylinder works really well.
Let the mixture harden (about an hour).
Remove the pen.
Insert a firework fuse. Push pieces of cotton balls into the hole to tamp the fuse securely inside the smoke bomb. Be sure there is fuse left outside of the tube so that you will be able to light your smoke bomb.
Wrap the smoke bomb with duct tape. Cover the top and bottom of the tube, too, but leave the hole area with the cotton and fuse uncovered.
Go outside and light your smoke bomb!

 

[Byker28i]

I still don't get why we are only talking about teachers. How hard or not the job is is not the question. I reckon dustmen in the winter would happily put another point of view over.

Chatted to our dustmen the other day. 3 of them now with the wheelie bins, 1 driver, 2 men running for the distance of the round (about 10 miles). Half way around they get a break as they go off to empty the kart.

They were saying they were well off now that they don't deal with smelly, dripping bin bags. I guess it's all perspective.

I've nominated our local lad to carry the olympic torch - he'll run the distance easily!

 

[Byker28i]

15 pages and people still have not learned that Joe is always right and can ramble on repeating the same thing ad infinitum.............

How do you think he's got such a high post count

 

[Martyn...]

I'm Joe, I work 9-5 and earn twice what i did whilst teaching on less hours and less stress.

Teacher :nono: .... that would be fewer hours

Only pulling your leg Joe, it is a job they could not pay me enough money to do, anyone that puts up with the crap that goes with it these days deserves respect.

 

[joescrivens]

I have no idea, but I guess it depends on age. Perhaps getting one of the class to stand up as Sodium and get another to stand close - called chlorine? Perhaps use magnets.
Kids learn well when you interact with them and make things fun.
I didn't do chemistry. Any chance of an explosion or smoke, or does it just make salt?

Sounds like fun and a breeze to be honest

and a good teacher will always find a way, like I did. It's not a breeze though, and unless you have done it, you'll never know! Teaching kids stuff they don't care about is one of the most difficult things you can do.

The first thing you have to do is make them care, make it personal to them and make them see the value in it, go from there then try and make it fun and interesting. Hence why I used to spend so much time in my preparation - really good lessons take a lot of work and effort, and doing it 25 times a week is so hard.

but we're digressing here about how to teach which isn't really what we're talking about

 

[joescrivens]

How do you think he's got such a high post count

posts in out of focus don't count!

 

[Dale_tem]

A lot of schools have break time supervisors so only an SMT needs to cover playtime.

So as a science teacher you taught for 6 periods every day?

http://community.tes.co.uk/forums/p/410388/5611756.aspx

As I thought.... take away PPA? Talk to your union....

http://community.tes.co.uk/forums/t/537242.aspx

lol

How many threads about non contact do you want me to find on the teachers forum?

http://community.tes.co.uk/forums/p/399742/5486410.aspx#5486410

They are all entitled to it, all take it and complain to the unions when they don't get it.

Perhaps to quote you, you should of done something about your working conditions

 

[joescrivens]

here's a light hearted anecdote to try and lighten the discussion a little:

I had a year 9 lad who was a bit of a trouble maker, and very cheeky, but also quite switched on. During the lesson he asked if he could go to the toilet, I said yes so off he went. He was gone for ages, like 20 minutes. Came strolling back into the room all cocky.

"Where do you think you've been young lad" I said

"To the toilet sir" replied the little scamp

"What, for 20 minutes? did you fall in" i replied

"No, I was having a POO!" He exclaimed at the top of his voice.

What could I say to that, ask a stupid question. He enjoyed the attention whilst the whole class erupted with laughter and I stood there trying not to burst out laughing myself, whilst looking a prize fool.

Little scamp 1-0 mr scrivens

 

[joescrivens]

They are all entitled to it, all take it and complain to the unions when they don't get it.

Perhaps to quote you, you should of done something about your working conditions

I did.

the ppa 10% time came in in 2005 I think?

I would stop getting your sources from the TES community threads if i were you, it's worse than out of focus on here

 

[u8myufo]

lol, that might have been amusing though!!

What I am saying is that your argument and others on here seems to be "We had it as bad or worse, so you should too"

that just doesn't make sense. If other people aren't willing to settle for something that you did/had to. Why shouldn't they fight against it if they want to.

Sorry Joe you need to read threads a little bit more carefully. I said I worked in sh..ty conditions, nowhere was I arguing I had it worse than others. You are the one on here mentioning the hours all the time, what you do and dont do in your spare time. But whilst we are now on the subject lets start with getting up at 04.00 am travelling for up to two hours, on site for 06.30. Working in bitter cold conditions, soaked through to the skin all day, 15min break in the morning and 30min at lunch, finnish at 5.30pm and travelling home again sometimes not getting back in untill 7.30-8.00pm, and that could be six days a week depending on contract. Average wage I ever earnt up untill 2009 about 19k. And believe me if you complained to most employers during the 70`s 80`s 90`s the reply you would get is "If you dont like it then F..K off " No this is not a dig at you or saying I work harder than anybody else, but you keep on about how hard you have it. There are people on here quoting incomes of 30k plus, I have no problem with that and respect anyone who has worked hard in their career to get where they are in life. Your simple answer to it all is go on strike if you are not happy with things or perhaps those that might think do something else Wouldn`t it be great if life was so simple I bet you would be the first to moan if the dustmen were on strike and there were ten bin bags piled up outside your door, or perhaps your sewers blocked and all the council services were on strike

 

[joescrivens]

Sorry Joe you need to read threads a little bit more carefully. I said I worked in sh..ty conditions, nowhere was I arguing I had it worse than others. You are the one on here mentioning the hours all the time, what you do and dont do in your spare time. But whilst we are now on the subject lets start with getting up at 04.00 am travelling for up to two hours, on site for 06.30. Working in bitter cold conditions, soaked through to the skin all day, 15min break in the morning and 30min at lunch, finnish at 5.30pm and travelling home again sometimes not getting back in untill 7.30-8.00pm, and that could be six days a week depending on contract. Average wage I ever earnt up untill 2009 about 19k. And believe me if you complained to most employers during the 70`s 80`s 90`s the reply you would get is "If you dont like it then F..K off " No this is not a dig at you or saying I work harder than anybody else, but you keep on about how hard you have it. There are people on here quoting incomes of 30k plus, I have no problem with that and respect anyone who has worked hard in their career to get where they are in life. Your simple answer to it all is go on strike if you are not happy with things or perhaps those that might think do something else Wouldn`t it be great if life was so simple I bet you would be the first to moan if the dustmen were on strike and there were ten bin bags piled up outside your door, or perhaps your sewers blocked and all the council services were on strike

it sounds like hell, I know what physical labour jobs can be like, i can tell a similar story about up at 2am to load 50 crates of milk onto milk trucks in the snow deliver until 10am then go out all day collecting

I know what those jobs are like, my dad was a labourer his whole life, he did 16 hour shifts 7 days a week at the steel mill for many many years.

The reason I am defending the teaching profession is because of all the misconceptions people have about it and the comments in this thread saying how "teachers have it easy" and how much spare time they have. I'm not saying other people's jobs aren't hard too. I'm just trying to make people understand the difficulties in that particular job, because they don't seem to have a clue

 

[lizzy23]

Ruddy phone!

 

[EOS_JD]

what free periods?

no seriously, what free periods?

I don't know what a free period is, i've heard of it, but not seen one. Free periods are largely taken up by cover. Also, ask a primary school teacher what a free period is.



really?

37.5 hours a week on a general 9-5 job right. which is 1950 hours in a year. Minus their holidays of 30 days including the public holidays (225 hours) gives the average 9 to 5 person a yearly total of 1,725 hours.

My working year as I already spelled out was 2250 hours (see post 343). My maths isn't great but I'm pretty sure that 2250 is more hours than 1725

granted I was at the start of my career and I acknowledge that the further into your career you get IF you stay just a classroom teacher those hours go down.

My good friend who is head of history right now works 8 till 5pm every day during the working week (works lunchtime) and lets say he does nothing in the evening (he does, but lets say for the sake or argument he doesn't) he does maybe 2 hours on a weekend and lets say for the sake of argument he does nothing through the holidays so we are talking a 47 hour week for 40 weeks of the year = 1880 hours in a year.

So where are these teachers that do "a LOT less than your standard 9-5 person with 20 days annual leave and 10 public holidays"

That's one person in a senior role.

Lets take my mate. 8:45 till 3pm home for half three every day! Works probably for an hour or two some nights, rarely does anything at the weekend and certainly does as little as possible during holidays!
Take into accout all the in-service days, public holidays etc etc and he recons he works about 163 days of the year (whether that's true or not I've not worked out).

Teachers in general do less hours over the year than most other jobs. Having 7 weeks off in the summer, 2 at easter, 2 at christmas mid term breaks etc etc......

 

[Byker28i]

 

[joescrivens]

Teachers in general do less hours over the year than most other jobs. Having 7 weeks off in the summer, 2 at easter, 2 at christmas mid term breaks etc etc......

well, we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one, in my experience and the people I know and have worked with, your mate is an exception to the rule. shall we leave that one there or continue to go round in circles?:shrug:

 

[EOS_JD]

well, we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one, in my experience and the people I know and have worked with, your mate is an exception to the rule. shall we leave that one there or continue to go round in circles?:shrug:

I was thinking the same Joe. Different folks - We both made points that will be true of some and not others

Lets move on lol

I still don't agree with the strikes though

 

[Samphire]

A lot of schools have break time supervisors so only an SMT needs to cover playtime. QUOTE]

Which means a lot don't.

When your bubble bursts and you see reality rather than what you are looking for I hope the fall is not to hard

 

[ding76uk]

Thats the big myth from the public sector. My mate is a primary school teacher and has been doing it for about 8 years, earns around late 30s to 40k. If you look people working in an office on 15,18,23k

With a degree a person working on the public sector on average earns around 5 grand less than one in the private sector.

Some forget that you need a degree to teach, usually followed by a PGCE year. Comparing there wages to non graduates is comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Dale_tem]

A lot of schools have break time supervisors so only an SMT needs to cover playtime. QUOTE]

Which means a lot don't.

When your bubble bursts and you see reality rather than what you are looking for I hope the fall is not to hard

I hope you have all my comments in this thread about teaching and not just picked one comment.

Excellent contribution, at least Joe provides something to discuss

 

[wisemen]

I know what those jobs are like, my dad was a labourer his whole life, he did 16 hour shifts 7 days a week at the steel mill for many many years.

Sounds like an opportune moment for......

[YOUTUBE]Xe1a1wHxTyo[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Byker28i]

With a degree a person working on the public sector on average earns around 5 grand less than one in the private sector.

Some forget that you need a degree to teach, usually followed by a PGCE year. Comparing there wages to non graduates is comparing apples and oranges.

Actually a teaching degree is 3 years. You only need PGCE if you have a degree that isn't teaching - in which case you can become a teacher in just one year.

Care to give your sources on Pay?
In response I'll give you:
"anybody who makes a firm statement is wrong, because there is not sufficient evidence to make a confident assertion in either direction."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/jan/09/bad-science-ben-goldacre

Or perhaps this article:
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news..._public_sector_walk_out_on_pensions_1_4019210

Also in the Hutton report, Lord Hutton, in his influential report on public sector pensions, says that there is no evidence that pay is lower for public sector workers to reflect higher levels of pension provision.

Perhaps you'd like evidence from the Policy Exchange,. from May this year:
Public sector workers are paid more than private sector workers.
and
Public sector pay continues to outstrip the private sector in every region of the UK


http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/im...sg=AFQjCNHGbW_tCO2HywkXbWjR8Ft5uX7_MQ&cad=rja

The summary: Public sector pay is higher and continued to grow faster than private sector pay during 2010 and that significant reforms will need to be made to limit job losses in the public sector and to achieve equity and fairness in the labour market.

 

[Samphire]

I hope you have all my comments in this thread about teaching and not just picked one comment.

Excellent contribution, at least Joe provides something to discuss

I have read all your comments, this was one of the ones I found the most amusing. Thank you for the praise, it really has made my day

 

[DemiLion]

Sounds like an opportune moment for......

It wasn't really that funny 151 post and 5 pages ago either.

 

[wisemen]

It wasn't really that funny 151 post and 5 pages ago either.

Oooops must have missed that..............still I find it funny and opportune considering the mention of the mill. Well done Ding, I couldnt agree more.

 

[u8myufo]

it sounds like hell, I know what physical labour jobs can be like, i can tell a similar story about up at 2am to load 50 crates of milk onto milk trucks in the snow deliver until 10am then go out all day collecting

I know what those jobs are like, my dad was a labourer his whole life, he did 16 hour shifts 7 days a week at the steel mill for many many years.

The reason I am defending the teaching profession is because of all the misconceptions people have about it and the comments in this thread saying how "teachers have it easy" and how much spare time they have. I'm not saying other people's jobs aren't hard too. I'm just trying to make people understand the difficulties in that particular job, because they don't seem to have a clue

That is fair enough Joe, my view is just a simple one and that is I dont think striking gets anybody anywhere. Lets take it everybody gets what they want. I take it the money has to come from somewhere, so six months to a year down the road then the goverment or whoever deals with this stuff will gradually start clawing it back from somewhere else, that in turn will have an effect on taxes or whatever and hey ho it will all kick off again with people moaning about wages cost of living etc etc. I know quite a few pensioners including my parents, they are not loaded but they are happy with their lot in life, they get a good heating allowance and free tv license and subsidised bus travel, usually the ones that complain are those that want to spend most of their pension in the Bingo hall every week What was the true definition behind a pension when they first introduced it :shrug: All I can seem to find is that it was to let you live a comfortable lifestyle and with a bit of dignity, I would be interested know if someone can tell me more on that score. I know this thread was about striking but I think it evolves around a lot more than just a case of whether it is right or wrong.

It seems nowadays people want enough pension so that when they retire they are able to carry on living the lifestyle they have been accustomed to, I suppose we all value things differently in life. But hey aint life funny anyway? Imo kids have a much better education nowadays than they ever did, they see what they want in life far more quicker than what I or many others did in my day, the chances are there for them to earn a lot more and want more in life. Is there anything wrong in thinking like that? I dont know, what will the long term outcome be of people wanting more and more? I think we are seeing the results of that now with the economy.

 

[2blue4u]

Sounds like an opportune moment for......

[YOUTUBE]Xe1a1wHxTyo[/YOUTUBE]

Oh my! Surely, that's RACIST!

 

[tomah]

You only need PGCE if you have a degree that isn't teaching - in which case you can become a teacher in just one year.

Which is very common, and means someone with a degree in Music could be hired to teach Primary school kids, Science, English, Maths, and all the rest!

Any wonder people haven't a clue about grammar :shrug:

 

[Splog]

I can't wait for the snow to come Then again, neither can the teachers..... Loads more time off

 

[Samphire]

I can't wait for the snow to come Then again, neither can the teachers..... Loads more time off

Me too - hope teachers are the only ones who get snow days would hate anyone else to share the time off