Anyone here on strike tomorrow?

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Byker28i said:
Pension aside, I thought one reason the firefighters were paid low salaries (lets be honest low salaries for what they do) was that there is a huge waiting list for people wanting to become firemen.
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Many firemen have second jobs because the hours they do allows them to fit it in!
 
Galaxy66 said:
Unfortunately with disputes that hit the news either the media are never fed the full facts or are so biassed against strikes that they do not inform the public of the full facts.

I have not taken too much interest in this strike personally...rightly or wrongly.. but I bet all the facts are not spelt out by the media.

Speaking from experience I was involved in a local 13 week strike and the public were being fed a figure we had refused to accept to return back to work, we were made to look really irresponsible for not accepting the offer but what the public were not told was that it was a 3 year deal, we had to give up all manner of hourly payment supplements for bad conditions and were to have shorter breaks, etc, the list was endless effectively cancelling most of the figure offered.

So when you read about disputes bear in mind there are always two sides to the story and invariably you will not be told the full facts fairly from both sides especially the employees!.

I firmly believe in the right to strike, without which employers would simply take advantage of their employees.
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well said, stolen from a friends facebook status

'That's it Britain. Let the media do your thinking for you. Go back to sleep; 'I'm a celebrity' is on in a bit. You're right, if they battered public sector pensions without a fight they'd use the money saved to improve private sector conditions."
 
Were the union leaders on strike too and losing a days pay???
 
joescrivens said:
what do you mean "do they show sympathy? no"

what happens? You start a thread about it and all the public sector workers come on and say "Unlucky for you, you're greedy, you don't live in the real world, you're poor at your job, we have it worse"

or is it that because the actions on the private sector don't cause people to have to take a day off work, it just doesn't actually get brought up and asked about? Show me one thread where somebody has been made redundant in the private sector and all of the public sector workers have lambasted them.

I think you'll find that the only bashing that occurs is from those in the private sector onto those in the public sector, largely because it affects them and a thread gets started because they come on bitching about how they were inconvenienced for a day. Start a poll asking if those in the public sector have sympathy for anyone in the private sector who gets made redundant or loses a pension benefit. I bet the results would prove your comment incorrect
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Oh, the public sector never bash the private do they??? For all the City fat cats, there are plenty of civil servants and council leaders earning just as much and voting for their own pay rises. Dont forget those poor union bosses, pretty much all earn over £100k pa and get massive benefits and dine in top restuarants at the expense of their members.

My point was that I am fed up with the Public Sector 'woe is me' attitude. They cant take people criticising their strike, and dont understand that people have lost money because of it. They seem to think that losing pension benefits and pay cuts, possible job cuts etc... is a personal attack on the public sector - it isnt!! Its about balancing books! BT cut 10k jobs a few years back out of necessity. Other companies have had to do similar. But people in the private sector know that you cant carry on if things are not good. On the local news a while back it showed a small company who made boats who were doing a little better now. There was a threat of closure so employees took something like a 30% pay cut to keep it going.
 
cambsno said:
Oh, the public sector never bash the private do they???
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you are changing what you are saying.

at first you said that the public sector don't show sympathy when the private sector gets job cuts

cambsno said:
When we suffer big job losses or hits on pensions, or stealth taxes to pay for more public sector workers do they show sympathy? No.
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and now you are saying that the public sector sometimes bash the private sector

so which is it?
 
cambsno said:
Should they not show solidarity???Lead from the front?
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:thinking:

aren't the union leaders there to backup the people striking, and work around the organisation of it and media etc tec. What would it achieve by them striking too?

The public sectors deliberately strike to cause inconvenience to the public, that's the whole point. Union leaders striking would only inconvenience the workers that are striking - which would defeat the object of their role, wouldn't it?
 
cambsno said:
Should they not show solidarity???Lead from the front?
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Why? They're there to provide support for their members, guidance to regional officers and handle media during the strike - they can't do that if they're on strike themselves. I don't want them on strike I want them working to back me and my fellow union members up on the day.

Obvious really.
 
Does this mean some people actually have pensions :gag: Being in construction most of my life you had jack paid in by any company you worked for, you were lucky if you had any spare to pay into a private one. What little I could afford to pay into one over the years is worthless, did I ever strike over it :shake: I could go on about how hard it is to work in construction and the real sh.tty conditions I have had to endure over the years, but I still class myself as fortunate compared to some jobs that people I have met along the way have had to do and for even worse pay and conditions. The only thing I have to say to those that were on strike is stop whinging, be grateful you even have a job and get on with what you are paid to do.
 
joescrivens said:
you are changing what you are saying.

at first you said that the public sector don't show sympathy when the private sector gets job cuts



and now you are saying that the public sector sometimes bash the private sector

so which is it?
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I am not. Read again carefully. If the private sector were to go on strike they would quickly moan.
 
cambsno said:
I am not. Read again carefully. If the private sector were to go on strike they would quickly moan.
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you're changing what you said once again. So to clarify you think the folowing things

1. People in the public sector have no sympathy for those in the private sector who get made redundant

2. People in the public sector bash and moan when those in the private sector strike. Or if they were to go on strike

Where do you see this happening? Has this happened recently giving you this opinion?
 
joescrivens said:
:thinking:

aren't the union leaders there to backup the people striking, and work around the organisation of it and media etc tec. What would it achieve by them striking too?

The public sectors deliberately strike to cause inconvenience to the public, that's the whole point. Union leaders striking would only inconvenience the workers that are striking - which would defeat the object of their role, wouldn't it?
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Thats what is so unfair! What has the public done to deserve this. Being incovenienced is one thing, being out of pocket as you now have to take a day off unpaid or pay for childcare is taking the pee!

If the private sector go on strike they will only inconvenience their customers - who in virtually all cases can then look elsewhere. BA striking last year only affected their customers, fair enough, and they had the choice then to choose other airlines. They are hitting BA which is fair enough if they choose to strike. With the public sector, we dont have an alternative, we cant decide to drop kids at private school, get another binman to come round etc... They are not hitting the government, they are hitting their customer, so is it any reason why there is so much anger. With BA they have customer loyalty to lose and with that profits, so striking may work. With the public sector, they can strike all they want and if anything the government will save money in wages, although repeated strikes will have an effect on the economy and could jepordise more jobs.
 
joescrivens said:
you're changing what you said once again. So to clarify you think the folowing things

1. People in the public sector have no sympathy for those in the private sector who get made redundant

2. People in the public sector bash and moan when those in the private sector strike. Or if they were to go on strike

Where do you see this happening? Has this happened recently giving you this opinion?
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1. When BT made huge job cuts, or the private sector have things happen, they dont support the private sector. So why should they expect sympathy when they have the same. They may have done, but I have not seen it.

2. I said they would, not that they have. I am sure that if British Gas went on strike and they lost power they would moan - we all would. They bash the private sector as we are 'fat cats' who dont do worthwhile jobs like teaching, nursing etc... and that we get paid loads more.
 
joescrivens said:
your choice for not wanting to improve your working conditions. Others have higher aspirations :shrug:
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Well well I might have guessed you of all people would have come back with a comment like that :shake: Do you really think that those on strike are the only unhappy ones with their pay and pensions? If you do then you need to wake up, so what is the answer? Shall we all go on strike in the hope of improving our working conditions.
 
cambsno said:
Thats what is so unfair! What has the public done to deserve this. Being incovenienced is one thing, being out of pocket as you now have to take a day off unpaid or pay for childcare is taking the pee!

If the private sector go on strike they will only inconvenience their customers - who in virtually all cases can then look elsewhere. BA striking last year only affected their customers, fair enough, and they had the choice then to choose other airlines. They are hitting BA which is fair enough if they choose to strike. With the public sector, we dont have an alternative, we cant decide to drop kids at private school, get another binman to come round etc... They are not hitting the government, they are hitting their customer, so is it any reason why there is so much anger. With BA they have customer loyalty to lose and with that profits, so striking may work. With the public sector, they can strike all they want and if anything the government will save money in wages, although repeated strikes will have an effect on the economy and could jepordise more jobs.
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well i would urge you to think community more than just about yourself.

Think about that teacher who is teaching your children, or that firefighter who is going to save your house, or that nurse who might save your life. Don't you want these people who provide a service that is massively needed to be happy in their job's considering the service they provide directly affects you?

I don't know where you work, but in my job if I'm not in a happy place then the company suffers do to my performance. But if a teacher, nurse or firefighter can't motivate themselves to do what's needed then your child might not get the education they need, your house might burn down or your life may not be saved.
 
dont be fooled by public sector unions...

For too long the civil service has been infected by a cancerous attitude of inefficiency, jobsworth waste resulting directly from being scared of union reaction to change...fear of the reaction if jobs needed to be cut.. Ive seen decisions made to avoid efficiency because the unions 'wouldnt agree to the job cuts'

add to that, civil servants who are put into roles they arent qualified to do and end up paying for consultants to do their work for them and decisions being made 'beacuse we promised a minister we'd do this' irrelevant of reality, with poor decisions being made to cover up poor decisions and eventually the house of cards has to collapse......

Im a consultant, Ive financially benefitted from these problems, but as a tax payer it leaves me with a unique and accurate perspective .... its about time the public sector woke up and realised in todays world e.g. refusing to work over 10 mins to ensure something happens on time or a deadline isnt missed is no longer tollerable.

Ive personally told a gov dept they were planning to pay 3 times what they should for a certain service only to be told to keep quiet as its not my place to say anything... or decisions made not to do the most cost efficient thing a replace a system because it would mean replacing something that the week before theyd paid to have upgraded.... i.e. spend more to cover up the fact the left hand doesnt know what the right is doing...

I could go on but then it'd be a rant....the unions have too much power and use it to keep hold of their power...dont believe anyone in public sector who says they cant be more efficient...remove the unions and the cancerous attitudes will subside.
 
cambsno said:
1. When BT made huge job cuts, or the private sector have things happen, they dont support the private sector. So why should they expect sympathy when they have the same. They may have done, but I have not seen it.

2. I said they would, not that they have. I am sure that if British Gas went on strike and they lost power they would moan - we all would. They bash the private sector as we are 'fat cats' who dont do worthwhile jobs like teaching, nursing etc... and that we get paid loads more.
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how do you mean they don't support it? what would you expect them to do

you're right, we would moan about not having any gas etc. as all of us would, i'm sure some would even have the exact opinion you stated. But not everyone would, it wouldn't be a collective public sector bashing would it? Wouldn't it be an everyone being ****ed they got not heat, but if there were reasons for it then the ones who could think for themselves would accept their actions, public and private sector included?
 
u8myufo said:
Well well I might have guessed you of all people would have come back with a comment like that :shake: Do you really think that those on strike are the only unhappy ones with their pay and pensions? If you do then you need to wake up, so what is the answer? Shall we all go on strike in the hope of improving our working conditions.
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no i don't think they are the only ones. But I don't think that people should lambast them for wanting to do something about it, and not just laying down and putting up with it.
 
So come on Joe, what's the solution.

If the government cant afford to pay the subsidies to these pensions any more what should happen?
 
Wrong people to talk about really Joe.

Lets take my local council, figures from 2010.

The figures, which went on display yesterday, show that chief executive, Gavin Jones, was paid a salary of £178,476 in 2009/10 and the council’s Tory leader, Rod Bluh, was paid a total of £28,579.42, including £1,266.81 in expenses.

The five other directors at the council each received a salary of between £100,000 and £140,000.
The accounts also reveal that the council has five members of staff who are paid between £95,000 and £99,000, two on £90,000 to £94,000 and six on £85,000 to £89,000. There are another 119 earning between £50,000 and £85,000.

Other perks include onsite nursery, cheap car loans and free leisure facilities.

The head of Wiltshire council got £190,000
 
joescrivens said:
well i would urge you to think community more than just about yourself.

Think about that teacher who is teaching your children, or that firefighter who is going to save your house, or that nurse who might save your life. Don't you want these people who provide a service that is massively needed to be happy in their job's considering the service they provide directly affects you?

I don't know where you work, but in my job if I'm not in a happy place then the company suffers do to my performance. But if a teacher, nurse or firefighter can't motivate themselves to do what's needed then your child might not get the education they need, your house might burn down or your life may not be saved.
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Think about the community rather than myself???? Well, thats not the strikers attitude is it - Its all about 'my pension' and thats it!

I really am fed up teachers, nurses etc... being made to sound as though they are far more important. Of course they are important and many do great jobs. But a lorry driver or train driver needs to be motivated or they could kill lots of people. Without the refinery workers and truckers to bring the fuel to the fire station, or the rubber hose factory the firemen would not be able to function, so everyone is viatlly important. If all the pharma companies went on strike and stopped supplying hospitals, many people would die despite the best efforts of nurses. We are all important and if any cogs break then the rest breaks. Turning it to football, the strikers get the headlines, but would the Arsenal unbeatables or double winning sides have succeeded without Campbell or Adams? Would Liverpool have gone 42 games (?) unbeaten in the 70s without the RB or LB, or Clemence?

I thought nurses and teachers did the job because they liked it. If they are purely motivated by money maybe they should have a career in sales or similar. I actually find that it is a bit patronising and disrespectful to suggest a nurse may allow someone to die because they are not motivated. Surely if they have an argument with their partner that morning they may not be motivated either, or that their boss annoys them?
 
Blue Moon 7 said:
Thatcher's famous quote "there is no such thing as society" is actually borne out by reading this thread. Some people won't actually get what I mean by that but many will.

Chris
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Oh really, Chris? If you want to know about Thatcher's "society" [and what a cliche that is, that has been taken out of context for the past twenty five years], look back to 2008 when the credit crunch first bit into business. It was very impressively noticable that many workers in the private sector voluntarily accepted short time working, loss of overtime and job sharing to try to protect their own "society".

One of the moderators of this forum, who visits us regularly, was put in just that position. He and his workmates accepted three and four day weeks to share out equally among themselves what business their company still had left.

Perhaps you can give me some examples of this sort of equality happening in the caring, sharing public sector?
 
joescrivens said:
no i don't think they are the only ones. But I don't think that people should lambast them for wanting to do something about it, and not just laying down and putting up with it.
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The whole of the private sector has felt the pinch, why can't the public sector?

Can you make anyone redundant? from where? Can you close a school? Close a Hospital? Close council offices?

We can't get rid of people, so how do we save money?

Unions won't let anything happen is the answer. You can't make things more efficient, you can't cut pay, you can't remove money from their bloated pensions.
 
barneyrubble said:
So come on Joe, what's the solution.

If the government cant afford to pay the subsidies to these pensions any more what should happen?
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I have a solution.

My wife was on a final salary pension with her company for 21 years she paid in so did the company, now in this day and age the pension fund was not growing (ooh suprise suprise) and the company was paying in an extra £4m a year to keep it at what was needed.

Sooooo they called a halt on it and gave them some decisions to make. The only one that seemed like a win win was this:

My wife took the money out and paid it into a private pension, the company still pays the same into that private pension aswell same as they would have for the final salary one but in the first year they say we will also put in an extra 10% of your salary, then for the next 4 years we will put in an extra 5% of your salary and then the extra stops but they still pay what they where before.

Now after alot of humming and harring me and the wife went to see an IFA and get a good deal on a "rats" Retirement Annuity Trusts and it works well.
She is happy her company is happy and everyone is a winner.

seems to me this could be an answer to all the poeple who have final salary pensions.

And as for all the people on here saying ooh we had to take the day off because we have kids to look after, well they are your kids you look after them, they are your responsability no one elses, what do you do if they are ill and cannot go to school???

People are fighting for something they have signed for and are fighting to keep it, we all do this in a round about way and if stiking is the only way to get heard then so be it.
Strikes have happend for years to get better conditions in the construction industry, it worked then and I do not see how it cannot work now for others.

Oh and by the way the wife is in finance (accountant) and I am a builder and I get absolutely nothing from my company for a pension so I have if i wanted too have my own ,which I donot i have property which in this day and age is worth a darn sigt more than any pension will be.

spike
 
Is there?

Most of those pensions are unfunded and paid from general taxation (teachers and NHS the exception i believe)

Where do you get the billion in the pot figure from?
 
SpikeK6 said:
I have a solution.

My wife was on a final salary pension with her company for 21 years she paid in so did the company, now in this day and age the pension fund was not growing (ooh suprise suprise) and the company was paying in an extra £4m a year to keep it at what was needed.

Sooooo they called a halt on it and gave them some decisions to make. The only one that seemed like a win win was this:

My wife took the money out and paid it into a private pension, the company still pays the same into that private pension aswell same as they would have for the final salary one but in the first year they say we will also put in an extra 10% of your salary, then for the next 4 years we will put in an extra 5% of your salary and then the extra stops but they still pay what they where before.

Now after alot of humming and harring me and the wife went to see an IFA and get a good deal on a "rats" Retirement Annuity Trusts and it works well.
She is happy her company is happy and everyone is a winner.

seems to me this could be an answer to all the poeple who have final salary pensions.

And as for all the people on here saying ooh we had to take the day off because we have kids to look after, well they are your kids you look after them, they are your responsability no one elses, what do you do if they are ill and cannot go to school???

People are fighting for something they have signed for and are fighting to keep it, we all do this in a round about way and if stiking is the only way to get heard then so be it.
Strikes have happend for years to get better conditions in the construction industry, it worked then and I do not see how it cannot work now for others.

Oh and by the way the wife is in finance (accountant) and I am a builder and I get absolutely nothing from my company for a pension so I have if i wanted too have my own ,which I donot i have property which in this day and age is worth a darn sigt more than any pension will be.

spike
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Wouldnt work as most of the pensions are paid from genral taxation.
 
Anyone taking bets who will get the last word in this thread :lol:
 
You can't keep spending when you ain't got any money left and you've max'd the credit card out ... then it comes time for reality to set in and you have to tell the kids that enough is enough!
 
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