Anyone here on strike tomorrow?

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frank said:
What is stopping you from trying to improve your pension situation, sitting on your backside ranting into a photography forum is not going to do much is it ?

Take a leaf out of the public sector and stand up and be counted, don't be a coward and just accept what your told, oh I forgot the private sector won't strike, they will just sit back and let all other public sector workers do it all for them, eventually whatever successes (if lucky enough) they make will be integrated into the private sector.
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Everybodys pensions are, private or public sector are or have been effected in one way or another. You can't expect to reap benefits you were originally promised from them if the money is no longer there. Welcome to the real world. My private pension stood to be reduced by £65K minimum (possibly £80k) over 25yrs if I lived that long after retirement at 65. Fortunately for me and work colleagues our employer has found a way to off set that by working things differently for how they pay our holiday money, future new employees will only be on 90% of our pay and they will pay into an alternative pension scheme that won't be as good as the scheme I pay into.
I'm one of a few fortunate ones, but there are plenty of private sector workers in much less fortunate positions, not just by my pension standard but public sector pension standards too. I've never benefitted by any public sector strike and I'm not likely to in the future. How you could think any private sector worker will benefit from this strike is beyond me other than they may get some overtime if they've been drafted in to cover for you whilst you sit on your backside.
 
maybe the union leaders should have a go at running the country and balancing the books...

Whoops, forgot, we had Labour in last time for a couple of terms... and look where they left us. Don't forget it was Labour that raided everyone's pensions... I don't hear the union leaders moaning too much about that (did they forget)?

Whoops I forgot, that's "old" Labour. New Labour partially ditched the unions.. I wonder why?

By the way, what does your average union leader earn, and what is their pension arrangement?

Going back a few years, does any one remember the winter of 1978/1979?

The basic problem here is that as a country, and as individuals, we have all lived beyond our means for too long. On top of that, we have let our interpretation of the stupid European legislation allow other countries to flourish and make stuff (Germany) while we roll over and send contracts for our own trains planes and boats abroad. Not so many years ago, our order books were full, the bank balance was good and growth came internally and externally. Why does Germany have so much money - because it still makes stuff> Saying that, the German Pension system needed massive re-alignment. Ironically. Germany is still doing well, despite the combination of East and West Germany
 
Lot of selfish attitudes on this thread. I'm a young teacher and on strike today. There've been a lot of changes recently in teaching which have worsened working conditions and pay.

Do I love my job? Yes
Do I want to quit if nothing happens in regard to strikes? No
Do I want to fight to have the quality of job and future guarantees I expected when I knew I wanted to be a teacher at the age of 14? Yes

I would fully support any other strikes because I think people are generally only forced to strike to protect themselves. If we just roll over and take it then what's next? Teachers aren't the only people on strike and we're all fighting for the future.

To all the people complaining go ahead and try a few years of teaching. I worked several other jobs over the years and they were all a lot easier and a lot less stressful than teaching, but teaching is my calling and its what I worked for. It's not fighting for just myself but future generations of educators including those who will teach my kids, grandchildren etc.

Again, jealousy rears its ugly head in all too many people looking to scapegoat teachers as having a nice easy 9-4 job with amazing holidays. If it's so good then get yourself to uni and come aboard.

Wouldn't it be nice if we had a society where we all supported each other rather than sitting agreeing with the old soap box?
 
jamesb84 said:
And where exactly are these magic "jobs for life"? I know two people who have recently completed their PGCE's and there ARE NO JOBS so they've gone through all the same personal expense as a teacher but without the "cushy" job at the end.
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There's no jobs because, as everyone else is trying to hang onto their pensions, there is no money to employ more people.;) Viscious circle.
 
Slimbert said:
I know what you mean.....after years of living it up working for local government, getting paid stupidly large amounts of money for doing b****r all work.....
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You see, you're the problem right there, along with all the other freeloaders :D
 
i know this is kind of drawing away form the main issue but a friend of mine posted this as her fb status a while ago for those of you who think teachers have it easy read this

We've heard Teachers' hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year! It's time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do - babysit! We can get that for minimum wage. Ok so let's give them £3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be £18.00 a ......day ...(8:......45 to 3:30 PM with 45 min. off for lunch and play-- that equals 6 hours).

Each parent should pay £18.00 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children. Now how many students do they teach in a day...maybe 35? So that's £18.00 x 35 = £630.00 a day. However, remember they only work 192 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations. LET'S SEE.... That's £630.00 X 192= £120,960 per year. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries). Now, what about those special education teachers and the ones with Master's degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage That would be £6.08 X 6 hours X 35 children X 192 days = £245,145 per year. WAIT A MINUTE --- THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG HERE! There sure is! The average teacher's salary (nation wide) is £24,000. £24,000/192 days = £125.00per day/35 students=£3.57/6 hours = £0.59 per hour per student--a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids!) WHAT A DEAL!!!!
 
astraman1 said:
i know this is kind of drawing away form the main issue but a friend of mine posted this as her fb status a while ago for those of you who think teachers have it easy read this

We've heard Teachers' hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year! It's time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do - babysit! We can get that for minimum wage. Ok so let's give them £3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be £18.00 a ......day ...(8:......45 to 3:30 PM with 45 min. off for lunch and play-- that equals 6 hours).

Each parent should pay £18.00 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children. Now how many students do they teach in a day...maybe 35? So that's £18.00 x 35 = £630.00 a day. However, remember they only work 192 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations. LET'S SEE.... That's £630.00 X 192= £120,960 per year. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries). Now, what about those special education teachers and the ones with Master's degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage That would be £6.08 X 6 hours X 35 children X 192 days = £245,145 per year. WAIT A MINUTE --- THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG HERE! There sure is! The average teacher's salary (nation wide) is £24,000. £24,000/192 days = £125.00per day/35 students=£3.57/6 hours = £0.59 per hour per student--a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids!) WHAT A DEAL!!!!
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The only flaw in your calculation is the Groupon discount that needs applying, oh and technically do we not pay for education through income tax and the like already? ;)
 
Slimbert said:
Don't try and tell me you wouldn't do the same given half the chance!!! :lol:
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No, not me mate.... always worked hard in the private sector for nothing more but a tip from the Boss's cap if I ever did well ;)
 
draiman said:
Do I want to fight to have the quality of job and future guarantees I expected when I knew I wanted to be a teacher at the age of 14? Yes
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You'd be the only person in the world who at the age of 14 new what wages and pensions he could get in the future. 99% of people have an idea of what they'd like as a profession at that age and that is it.
I started my apprenticeship at 16, it was what I wanted to do and was paid a wage and at 18 I started paying into the pension scheme. It's only as I started to think about marriage and mortgages at 26 that the amount of money I was earning became important. It's only now at 49 (possible minimum of 9 years left till I could retire) that pension is becoming important to me.

Training apprentices and assisting work colleagues is part of my function so teaching wouldn't be a problem, but I'm more than happy to stay where I am.
 
astraman1 said:
i know this is kind of drawing away form the main issue but a friend of mine posted this as her fb status a while ago for those of you who think teachers have it easy read this

We've heard Teachers' hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year! It's time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do - babysit! We can get that for minimum wage. Ok so let's give them £3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be £18.00 a ......day ...(8:......45 to 3:30 PM with 45 min. off for lunch and play-- that equals 6 hours).

Each parent should pay £18.00 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children. Now how many students do they teach in a day...maybe 35? So that's £18.00 x 35 = £630.00 a day. However, remember they only work 192 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations. LET'S SEE.... That's £630.00 X 192= £120,960 per year. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries). Now, what about those special education teachers and the ones with Master's degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage That would be £6.08 X 6 hours X 35 children X 192 days = £245,145 per year. WAIT A MINUTE --- THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG HERE! There sure is! The average teacher's salary (nation wide) is £24,000. £24,000/192 days = £125.00per day/35 students=£3.57/6 hours = £0.59 per hour per student--a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids!) WHAT A DEAL!!!!
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I pass on very technical and valuable information to hundreds of people every day using skills I've honed over 20 odd years. I've worked out that I'm paid £0.06 per hour per recipient. ;)
 
Not read the whole thread, but some of us who were made redundant would actually like a job, never mind going on strike.

Strikers should be grateful that they have a job and get back to bleeding work.
 
fabs said:
You're just jealous. :D
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.....how the other half live, eh?! :eek:

I'm trying to imagine what I could do with wealth like that.....cure world hunger, stop the ice caps melting.....maybe even rid the world of Barry Manilow, once and for all?! :bat:
 
draiman said:
Lot of selfish attitudes on this thread. I'm a young teacher and on strike today. There've been a lot of changes recently in teaching which have worsened working conditions and pay.

Do I love my job? Yes
Do I want to quit if nothing happens in regard to strikes? No
Do I want to fight to have the quality of job and future guarantees I expected when I knew I wanted to be a teacher at the age of 14? Yes

I would fully support any other strikes because I think people are generally only forced to strike to protect themselves. If we just roll over and take it then what's next? Teachers aren't the only people on strike and we're all fighting for the future.

To all the people complaining go ahead and try a few years of teaching. I worked several other jobs over the years and they were all a lot easier and a lot less stressful than teaching, but teaching is my calling and its what I worked for. It's not fighting for just myself but future generations of educators including those who will teach my kids, grandchildren etc.

Again, jealousy rears its ugly head in all too many people looking to scapegoat teachers as having a nice easy 9-4 job with amazing holidays. If it's so good then get yourself to uni and come aboard.

Wouldn't it be nice if we had a society where we all supported each other rather than sitting agreeing with the old soap box?
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Pretty much every profession or job is tough nowadays, and many people in the bottom end of the private sector have very rough terms and conditions.

I had the displeasure of temping in one place where literally how many seconds you went to the toilet was monitored, where getting a day off was a nightmare, let alone a specific day off. Where a day off ill meant a heavy duty interview with a line manager, and three got you a disciplinary meeting. Now I was there as a temp, I could escape easily, the full timers there felt trapped, demoralised and worthless.

What's worse for these guys, is that if the teachers go on strike, and they miss work because of it, not only do they not get paid, they get a heavy duty return to work interview with comments like "what are you going to do to ensure you future proof your self against this" On the one hand, the employer doesn't think it is OK for a family to "coordinate holiday days off, because the partners days off have nothing to do with the business, on the other, they expect the family unit to pull together, and ensure that dealing with a sick child or teachers strike is not dealt with by the one parent, but by the rest of the family, preferably someone out of the business

All of that for a pittance

It is with workers in these organisations, who fought to get a job, where cuts, low salaries, inflation and everything else bites extremely hard
 
jamesb84 said:
And where exactly are these magic "jobs for life"? I know two people who have recently completed their PGCE's and there ARE NO JOBS so they've gone through all the same personal expense as a teacher but without the "cushy" job at the end.
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Interesting and completely at odds with what I've been told. A friend of mine has the prospect of redundancy hanging over him right now (he's a research scientist). He has been told that he can basically walk into a teaching job and start straight away with on the job training, no need to get the PGCE first.

That's teaching secondary school level physics or chemistry, either of which he has the requiste knowledge of the subject and graduate / post-graduate qualifications for.
 
nilagin said:
A firefighters occupation is dangerous by it's very nature and anybody going into it thinking that it isn't would be deluded. You can only go so far to ensure their safety whilst still allowing them to do their job.
The medical and teaching professions are not dangerous jobs by nature and it should be th eresponsibility of both the schools, hospitals and respective unions to ensure it remains so.
If it wasn't for my employer and unions constant monitoring of safety etc. in my working enviroment there would probably be serious accidents or worse still fatalities every week.
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Yes being a firefighter is dangerous, i was more getting at the instances where people actively make their life more hazardous, I mean would you accept having rocks thrown at you while at work by kids, do you turn around and think ahh let the building burn while our union decides if they are throwing enough stones at us to be classed as dangerous?

Medical and teaching not dangerous by nature? dealing with drunk and aggressive members of the public is pretty hazardous being threatened with needles because your trying to help someone for instance. As for teaching my sis has had enough furniture thrown at her in the classroom to start her own branch of ikea! then a pupil got agro with her and pushed her down a flight of stairs.
 
onomatopoeia said:
Interesting and completely at odds with what I've been told. A friend of mine has the prospect of redundancy hanging over him right now (he's a research scientist). He has been told that he can basically walk into a teaching job and start straight away with on the job training, no need to get the PGCE first.

That's teaching secondary school level physics or chemistry, either of which he has the requiste knowledge of the subject and graduate / post-graduate qualifications for.
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He probably can, that is what my Mrs did before our little one came along. bear in mind she was on about £19 an hour (Dr of theoretical nuclear physics but no teaching qualification see) teaching physics lab work (she did some classroom work too). from memory she taught 6 hours a week (about 46 kids in 3 groups teaching 2 hours each). so that is about £114 a week for that 6 hours, every 2 weeks they had an assessed lab report so that is about 15-30mins per pupil of marking per fortnight (another 6-12 hours a week) and expect about 6 hours prep a week for the lab session.

easy money see ;)
 
Dale_d3100 said:
Teachers have it easy. The end. ( I believe I work with more teachers a year than anyone on this forum and I work with teachers all over the UK).

There are other public workers, nurses and more who have to work hard

Teachers HAVE to contribute to their pensions. They have pensions based on their final salary. What they pay in does not cover their pensions. The government makes up the rest.

In the private sector you have a choice (everyone should be made to have a pension). I contribute a percentage and my company contributes a percentage.

This is similar to the teachers and the government being the company. However the government is contributing a lot more than the private companies.

If a teacher has worked for 40 years and ends up on £55,000 then their pension will be £27,500 and they will get a payout of around £90,000.

I have no knowledge of other public sectors, but the teachers are winding me up.

According to my accountant, for me to live comfortably when I retire, I will need £250,000 in my pension pot, that means contributing over £600 a month for the next 30 odd years.

A teacher starting on 25,000 a year will contribute around £125 a month, 40 years later will be on £50,000 (they all end up on much higher wages, its done by the years service, level etc. etc.) and will be contributing £250 a month. Their pension will be better than mine.

3 years at uni, 1 year doing the PGCE, then get a job for life starting at £27,500 going up to £50,000 or higher as there are head teachers earning over £100,000 in london, £27,500(at least) pension and a £90,000 (at least) payout on retirement. No chance of being fired due to lack of effort, appearnce or anything else only by lack of attendance or gross misconduct.

Or go to uni for 3 years, try to find a job, give up, start at the local supermarket till things get better, finally settle for a job earning 20k and work your arse off getting a better job. Realise you haven't got a pension as you haven't been able to afford it, start a pension, but can't pay in huge amounts. Retire with not a lot and no large payout.

Teachers have it easy.
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You are talking absolute tripe. You try teaching with the hours involved & the little charmers in the classroom
 
I don't believe that many in the public sector 'have it easy' any more that those in the private sector 'have it easy' - the big difference is that 'we' the taxpayer pay for those in the public sector.
As in this thread, there is this widespread idea that the Government pays the salaries of those in the public sector ... it doesn't, you and I pay through our taxes and how many of us want to increase our tax burden in order to make someone elses life easier?
It's tough for most people today due to the problem of the national debt - but how was this caused?
The 'popular' view is that it was all the fault of the bankers and indeed, it is true that much of the problem can be laid with a failure in the regulation of the banking industry HOWEVER if Joe Public had not decided to live beyond their means then the bankers could not have caused the problems we now face.
The birds have come home to roost and everyone is going to have to pay for their profligacy in past years.
 
Samphire said:
Oh and if we under perform .. we get the sack ... simples :)
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Well it appears that there are currently in the region of 600,000 teachers in this country and in the last 40 years 18 (!!) have been sacked for incompetence. So, unfortunately, not quite that simples. It'll be interesting to see the effect of the new Education Act.

http://www.nwemail.co.uk/home/2.4887/poor-teachers-need-sacking-1.899791?referrerPath=home

In general terms and regarding today's strike, I think unions generally provide an essential role in this country. What is apparent however, is some of the unions (typically the larger ones but not always) would rather follow an ideological path (poor workers versus demonic employers) than be seen taking a collaborative approach with employers.

Imagine how much more successful Britain could be if Unions and employers worked together to out-compete the likes of Germany rather than wasting our efforts on in-fighting.
 
gramps said:
I don't believe that many in the public sector 'have it easy' any more that those in the private sector 'have it easy' - the big difference is that 'we' the taxpayer pay for those in the public sector.
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don't the people in the public sector also pay the same amount of taxes as those in the private sector?
 
joescrivens said:
don't the people in the public sector also pay the same amount of taxes as those in the private sector?
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Yes, of course, but the idea that the Government 'pays' gives the impression that 'we' aren't affected by the clamour for more money ... and if you ask those in the public sector to pay more taxes to pay for their demands doubtless that would lead to more strikes.
 
joescrivens said:
don't the people in the public sector also pay the same amount of taxes as those in the private sector?
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What on earth has that to do with sliced bread?


Of course they do, they also have, a job paid for by those taxes.

Do they pay for the private sector jobs, in the same way, of course they don't.:cuckoo:
 
Spuff said:
Well it appears that there are currently in the region of 600,000 teachers in this country and in the last 40 years 18 (!!) have been sacked for incompetence. So, unfortunately, not quite that simples. It'll be interesting to see the effect of the new Education Act.

http://www.nwemail.co.uk/home/2.4887/poor-teachers-need-sacking-1.899791?referrerPath=home

QUOTE]

I disagree with those figures, I know a fair few who have been shown the door for being poor teachers. Not sure the official line would have been incompetence, so to those who hire and fire by what ever means, I stick by my original .. simples :)
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we are clouding "what the profession is" with the real issue

We are also talking about cleaners, dustmen etc.. not just the more romantic front-line nurses and teachers

Bottom line is, going on strike, mid negotiation, is bad form
 
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Mikesphotaes said:
What on earth has that to do with sliced bread?


Of course they do, they also have, a job paid for by those taxes.

Do they pay for the private sector jobs, in the same way, of course they don't.:cuckoo:
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that argument makes very limited sense.

Jeez, so my (and your) taxes pay for teachers, firefighters, police, NHS staff......so what. You think its just creating jobs for the boys that you're paying for and getting nothing back from it?
 
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Slimbert said:
Correct, but the terms of the pension I accepted when I started paying in to it are being changed for the worse......and if I pull out of it now, I lose more money than I can afford to.....that's why me and roughly 2 million others are a wee bit ****ed off about it!! :thumbs:
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would that be a bit like a lot of the private sector who started off on final salaries to have them slashed to money purchase schemes? :shrug: - not arguing with you, just pointing out it's happened everywhere...
 
Slimbert said:
I know what you mean.....after years of living it up working for local government, getting paid stupidly large amounts of money for doing b****r all work, 13 weeks holiday a year (2 people have said this to me today, despite me not working in a school :shrug:) and having this amazing pension promised to me.....I'm now coming back down to earth with a big fat bump because I have to slum it with the rest of the private sector slaves.....almost makes me want to give it up and become a professional photographer, because let's face it, everyone knows they earn a fortune.....right?! :thinking:
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ha ha.. cracking comment Don S..... :thumbs:
 
Lynton said:
would that be a bit like a lot of the private sector who started off on final salaries to have them slashed to money purchase schemes? :shrug: - not arguing with you, just pointing out it's happened everywhere...
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It has indeed, but since when did that make something right, or make something not worth fighting for?! :shrug:

Non of this situation is sector vs sector (despite some people in this thread talking like it is!), and I'd be equally behind anyone going through, or in, a similar situation!!
 
Mikesphotaes said:
What on earth has that to do with sliced bread?


Of course they do, they also have, a job paid for by those taxes.

Do they pay for the private sector jobs, in the same way, of course they don't.:cuckoo:
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Good point!! Let's stop paying for those jobs. Our taxes will be lower.

Oh but as long as you are ok with no education, nobody to collect your bins, nobody to put you out when you are on fire and nobody to fix your broken bones

You're fine without those things right? Or maybe you can look at it differently and that it's not the wages you are paying for but instead services that you need in your life
 
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Slimbert said:
It has indeed, but since when did that make something right, or make something not worth fighting for?! :shrug:

Non of this situation is sector vs sector (despite some people in this thread talking like it is!), and I'd be equally behind anyone going through, or in, a similar situation!!
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The problem is that when the private pensions were and still are being pillaged the public sector remained very quiet and comfortable in the knowledge that their final salary pensions and golden handshakes were safe.
 
Slimbert said:
It has indeed, but since when did that make something right, or make something not worth fighting for?! :shrug:

Non of this situation is sector vs sector (despite some people in this thread talking like it is!), and I'd be equally behind anyone going through, or in, a similar situation!!
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Never said it made it right, just that the public sector is catching up about 10 yrs after the private sector.........

Promised so much and delivered so little.........

Give me the budget spreadsheet and I am sure I could make a few savings along the lines............
 
Dale_d3100 said:
Teachers have it easy. The end. ( I believe I work with more teachers a year than anyone on this forum and I work with teachers all over the UK).

There are other public workers, nurses and more who have to work hard

Teachers HAVE to contribute to their pensions. They have pensions based on their final salary. What they pay in does not cover their pensions. The government makes up the rest.

In the private sector you have a choice (everyone should be made to have a pension). I contribute a percentage and my company contributes a percentage.

This is similar to the teachers and the government being the company. However the government is contributing a lot more than the private companies.

If a teacher has worked for 40 years and ends up on £55,000 then their pension will be £27,500 and they will get a payout of around £90,000.

I have no knowledge of other public sectors, but the teachers are winding me up.

According to my accountant, for me to live comfortably when I retire, I will need £250,000 in my pension pot, that means contributing over £600 a month for the next 30 odd years.

A teacher starting on 25,000 a year will contribute around £125 a month, 40 years later will be on £50,000 (they all end up on much higher wages, its done by the years service, level etc. etc.) and will be contributing £250 a month. Their pension will be better than mine.

3 years at uni, 1 year doing the PGCE, then get a job for life starting at £27,500 going up to £50,000 or higher as there are head teachers earning over £100,000 in london, £27,500(at least) pension and a £90,000 (at least) payout on retirement. No chance of being fired due to lack of effort, appearnce or anything else only by lack of attendance or gross misconduct.

Or go to uni for 3 years, try to find a job, give up, start at the local supermarket till things get better, finally settle for a job earning 20k and work your arse off getting a better job. Realise you haven't got a pension as you haven't been able to afford it, start a pension, but can't pay in huge amounts. Retire with not a lot and no large payout.

Teachers have it easy.
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What job do you have where you "work with more teachers than anyone else on this forum?"
 
joescrivens said:
Good point!! Let's stop paying for those jobs. Our taxes will be lower.

Oh but as long as you are ok with no education, nobody to collect your bins, nobody to put you out when you are on fire and nobody to fix your broken bones

You're fine without those things right? Or maybe you can look at it differently and that it's not the wages you are paying for but instead services that you need in your life
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Joe, you forgot to mention the UK Border Agency (immigration Service) ;)
 
Splog said:
The problem is that when the private pensions were and still are being pillaged the public sector remained very quiet and comfortable in the knowledge that their final salary pensions and golden handshakes were safe.
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I'm not even going to bother answering that.....:shake:
 
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