anyone familiar with white heat (Bob Carlos Clarke)

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Hi there. I have a quick "pick your brains" question. I am about to shoot a project and plan to use both film and digital. I am a big fan of Bob Carlos Clarkes work, and find the work in white heat truly inspiring.
Now, i know Clarke used ilford film and Printing materials but does anyone know what he might have used for white heat? I can tell its very grainy so its goin to be high iso or pushed? In the back of the book there is a thank you from Clarke to both Polaroid and olympus. Any info would be very helpful add much appreciated.
 
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If I'm reading this correctly, you're wanting to know the film he used for White Heat, yes?

If so, why? Most of the work will be done in the printing/PP. If grainy is all you're after, Tri-X will do the job, especially if pushed.
 
PAN 400 is grainy even before pushing so that might be a good way to go. It can be difficult to get hold of though.
 
If you want gritty I'd shoot HP5+ over Delta, Delta is a finer grained film.
 
Shoot with HP5+ or Tri-X but push it to ISO 1600 or 3200 and use a high acutance developer like Rodinal to get the graininess and contrast :)
 
I've found Tri-X's grain to be a lot nicer than that of HP5. It just seems a bit less obtrusive. I would ignore your delta 400, it's far too smooth for what you want. Tri-X is very punchy. You might want to try Rollei Retro 100 (they can be got cheapy cheapy from AG). It's extremely contrasty. Not sure how it pushes though.
 
absolutely fantastic! cheers guys, its nice to get advice you can trust, as this is my first serious project shooting film i want to make the right choices beforehand as i believe at the time of writing this i have only one session to get it in the bag. if things go well i may be able to reshoot but i am being done a massive favour this once. i am shooting on the 31st of march and will get some images up as soon as i can.
 
Just as a side note - I'm not familiar with White Heat, but attempting to emulate stuff can be quite difficult. Lots of people try to emulate street shots from the 50s and 60s with the use of Tri-X, forgetting that today's Tri-X is a different formula and emulsion to the one back then.

Film choices are very subjective so it might be worth trying a roll of some of the most obvious choices and deciding from there which to use.
 
freecom2 said:
Film choices are very subjective so it might be worth trying a roll of some of the most obvious choices and deciding from there which to use.
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It's all about experimentation as Freecom says, you have plenty of time before your shoot to check out the films and developing to see if its what you are after :)
 
I am lucky having time on my side, thought i would get on it sooner than later.
I don't want to totally emulate the work Clarke did for white heat, i am looking to try and recreate the feeling and atmosphere. My guessing that he pushed the film through necessity rather than anything else due to the tricky and low light conditions in kitchens. (I've spent most of my waking hours in one for the past 12 years, the light is miserable lol)
 
Good luck :thumbs:
 
Ok so shot a roll of the tri x in the kitchen i work at, similar lighting to the one i will be shooting my project at. Decided to push to 1600.
Developed today, scanned in, looking good so far, apart from discovering my om 10 has a light leak lol. Only noticeable on the frames that had been sitting between shots, shouldn't be a problem for the shoot as i will be firing through the rolls and not leaving them on the passenger seat of my car lol. found the culprit though. Loose foam strip near the hinge!
So. Im a happy bunny so far and feel much more comfortable about the project now i know what's required as far as film and processing goes. Not had a look on my pc yet but will get them on tonight hopefully.
Totally bitten by the developing bug now and planning on starting some home developing so i Will be picking some brains soon no doubt. Perhaps In a new thread.
 
ok so as promised here are some test shots for the project
trixtest_7.jpg

trixtest_1.jpg

trixtest_8.jpg

trixtest_4.jpg

trixtest_3.jpg
 
It would appear that Tri-X has served you well! The last knifes one is my favourite from the set, definitely. How wide was the lens?
 
Okay, after reading your posts I have seen you are using an OM10. If you want to try a roll of Ultrafine 400 (bit of an oxymoron there as it isn't the finest grained ISO400 film) drop me a PM with your address and I'll send you a roll of 20 or so to try, it's definetly a bit more gritty than the new Tri-X.
 
Really happy with the test and i have to say thank you for your help so far. I had an expert on hand for the developing, my bruv. In his third year of uni and knows his way around a darkroom.
I was shooting with both 50mm and 28mm. The knives were shot with my 28.
And yeah, 35mm format then scanned in at medium resolution just for ease of transfer and the such.

So, i collected my developing tank and changing bag today, just won a scanner on the bay, and lined up a lab that sells chems that is on my way to college!
Don't think i will be selling my digital stuff just yet though lol
 
Simon photo said:
Don't think i will be selling my digital stuff just yet though lol
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It won't be long though! In 6 months you'll have started shooting 10x8, built yourself a darkroom and not bought food or clothes for a long time :thumbs:
 
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Joenail said:
It won't be long though! In 6 months you'll have started shooting 10x8, built yourself a darkroom and not bought food or clothes for a long time :thumbs:
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Already ploughed enough resources into my digital bag, Im hoping to shoot more film on a special occasion projects basis only but like you say, won't be long!
Im glad i've taken the plunge though and kind of happy to have learned what i know so far with digital (i used to machine gun in the beginning i can tell you!) it has given me a good foundation where it comes to shooting but as for the rest of the learning curve it looks like im only just reaching base camp... Mt kilimanjaro.
Darkroom would be nice >.<
 
Just got back from the shoot and can honestly say i shot the living **** out of it lol
Was very adrenaline fueled and a bit of a mast fest but once the checks started rolling in i seemed to settle into it alongside the chefs.
They were a great bunch of guys and i think that being one of the same they accepted my presence and appreciated my ability to stay out of the way when needed.
Can't wait to start developing and scanning now!
 
Glad to hear it. It's always surprised me how much more relaxed people get if you can find some common ground.

Be sure to let us see the photos! :)
 
I will ask if there is a big difference between developers, im guessing there is. The test shots above were devved at the black and white lab in swansea uni, my brother can't remember what they use. Im certain its id-11. will ilfosol be comparable? I have ordered some id-11 though. Should i wait til that arrives?
I have pushed the tri x to 1600 again for all seven rolls.
 
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ID-11 is a great general purpose developer. I don't use anything else really. If you're after grain I'd normally say Rodinal with a fast film, but since you've pushed an already quite grainy film I'd stick with ID-11. Use it at stock (undiluted) for more contrast and grain.
 
EdBray said:
Okay, after reading your posts I have seen you are using an OM10. If you want to try a roll of Ultrafine 400 (bit of an oxymoron there as it isn't the finest grained ISO400 film) drop me a PM with your address and I'll send you a roll of 20 or so to try, it's definetly a bit more gritty than the new Tri-X.
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Excuse me hijacking the thread, have you been buying this in the UK?

The USD price makes it seem like a good cheaper alternative to Tri-X and you saying it's a bit grittier also sounds good but I can't seem to find it in any of the usual places (Silverprint, AG, Imaging warehouse etc).
 
No, bought it on ebay from the US from here Ultrafine Online, I bought a roll of ISO100 and one of ISO400. They post 2 rolls together for the same postage charges as for 1.
 
Cool, cheers. Postage times and customs. Charges reasonable? Kinda reticent to buy from the US after my last purchase (a Bessa L) took a month to arrive and the fees amounted to 50% of the price of the camera!
 
brianwar said:
Cool, cheers. Postage times and customs. Charges reasonable? Kinda reticent to buy from the US after my last purchase (a Bessa L) took a month to arrive and the fees amounted to 50% of the price of the camera!
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As we're off topic, my apologies to the OP.

I have been hit really hard recently with customs duties and VAT (I'm actually contesting 2 as they seem to have just picked a figure out of the air with nothing whatsoever to do with what I paid on ebay) so I do know where you are coming from.

The delivery was about a week or so if I remember correctly and I don't think I got charged any duty but if I did it was negligable enough for me not to remember.
 
Yeah sorry OP.

Cheers Ed, I'll consider them when my current stock of Tri-X runs out though I just noticed 7day are doing a 5pack of Tri-X now which looks like a decent deal.
 
Ahhh its cool no worries guys.
Im watching and learning ;)
I've had a couple of good deals on the bay for tri x 5rolls for around 20sheets then postage. But will defiantly be trying out some others i've seen mentioned for future projects.
Through this project though i have lined up some other kitchens that may be interested for some promotional work so fingers crossed, looks like i may now have started an even bigger project than i expected. Its all gravy though. I love it!
 
Since the conversation is now where it is, I will recommend Shanghai GP3. It can be bought on eBay for two pounds a roll in 120. Ten rolls for 20 quid, free postage from China I believe. I haven't tried it myself but I've seen some good results and heard good things.

I thought that might happen, Simon. It turning into a bigger project. That happens a lot with things I do. I rarely follow them through though. I'm useless like that. When will you have the films developed and scanned?
 
Joenail said:
Since the conversation is now where it is, I will recommend Shanghai GP3. It can be bought on eBay for two pounds a roll in 120. Ten rolls for 20 quid, free postage from China I believe. I haven't tried it myself but I've seen some good results and heard good things.

I thought that might happen, Simon. It turning into a bigger project. That happens a lot with things I do. I rarely follow them through though. I'm useless like that. When will you have the films developed and scanned?
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What's the weight of the GP3 like? Been so used to Tri-X that when I tried a roll of Fomapan recently it was like trying to load tissue paper into the spiral to dev it.
 
I have absolutely no idea. As I said, I haven't used it. I feel your pain with Fomapan, though! Sometimes I find it easier to dev in trays with 120.
 
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