Any point to Monochrome

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chameleon

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Is there any point or advantage to setting a camera to capture in monochrome? Considering you can do this in PP?
 
I don't see the point really, you can always go from colour to monochrome, but not the other way around! Having said that, some people prefer to nail the shot on the camera, not make those kind of alterations afterwards, but that's the only reason I can see.

Chris
 
chris321 said:
I don't see the point really, you can always go from colour to monochrome, but not the other way around! Having said that, some people prefer to nail the shot both on the camera, not make those kind of alterations afterwards, but that's the only reason I can see.

Chris
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UMM never thought of that IM gonna experiment tomoz and post a reply. good challenge. Ill shoot raw and Jpg and we'll see, maybe Ill mix it with another post then and now Linky to Thread now and then


I Get to get to many ideas from posts her why did I join :thinking: anyone else up for it ?

:lol: Dave
 
The problem with shooting in monochrome on camera is that you have no control over the conversion. Monochrome conversions can be done in any number of ways. My favorite is playing with the channel mixers to get a conversion I like the look of. Then boost the contrast/brightness. Obviously if you use in camera monochrome you don't get the same image! Although it's less messing around with the PP.
 
I look forward to your results Dave, see if we can guess which is which?
 
Guys - its depends on whether you're doing raw or jpg.

Set the camera to monochrome and raw and the file will still retain the colour info. Its only the review screen on the back of the camera that will show a B&W version.

Shoot in jpg and the cam does the B&W conversion and any colour info is lost.

Shooting in raw, its useful if you had a B&W conversion in your head to have a quick look to see if it works, but if you shoot jpg, there's really no point as you have more control on your computer to do the mono conversion in a way that you prefer.

Be interested to see what you come up with though by way of test shots.

/edit I think Fiona's got it right, but I do know of one 'tog hereabouts who does use the mono setting a lot (and shoots raw) for just the reason I mentioned - so, yes it does have its uses.
 
I always shoot RAW and do my conversions in PP, that way if I change my mind I just do another conversion and I have not lost any of the detail or colour.

But that is just the way I do it others might have different views.

Shutterman
 
grim8634 said:
The problem with shooting in monochrome on camera is that you have no control over the conversion. Monochrome conversions can be done in any number of ways.
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Ah so same as my old Pentax SLR then when shooting BW no wonder I couldn't tame it :lol:

Fionab said:
in a word no, the camera will not capture the same tonality that you can achive in PP so it will always look rather flat and dull and thus need PP so what on earth is the point unless you are printing straight form the camera to a pict bridge thingy ;)

Fi
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Cant believe that Soz :thinking:

Ok I know what you mean as Ive processed lots of BW and Colour films in my DR and many need, burning/dodge/blah/blah, over x number of years, (darnt tell you how many) in the enlarger its just the same in PS that is. only anyone can do it, wheres as before the tog or dev did it in their DR, the only difference is that I can get sharper with my enlarger than PS due to the more control I have on my enlagrer

Oh Oh new question can I get negs from my DSLR camera Sh** another question

We'll see

Cant wait Ill do Jpg and raw both colour and BW


Oh MG

please dont say lets see the BW and Colour film as well Ill think you dont want me to post :thinking:

see you next year if you do :D
 
Never use the monochrome setting on the camera it is a waist of time. Always convert on the computer. You can adjust the reds, greens and blues to get just the right conversion. If the information is lost as it would be doing the conversion on the camera then it can never be retrieved. Also you might take a shot that you will want as black and white then find that it actually looks better in colour! This isn't an option if the camera converts it!
 
cowasaki said:
~clip~

If the information is lost as it would be doing the conversion on the camera then it can never be retrieved. Also you might take a shot that you will want as black and white then find that it actually looks better in colour! This isn't an option if the camera converts it!

~clip~
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Not strictly true...... if you shoot in RAW (NEF) you get a B/W conversion when it's displayed either on the display or computer (View NX) - but - as it's in RAW all the colour data is still there, exactly as it was recorded. :eek:

As usual, can't tell you how a Canon works...... :naughty:
 
chuckles said:
Not strictly true...... if you shoot in RAW (NEF) you get a B/W conversion when it's displayed either on the display or computer (View NX) - but - as it's in RAW all the colour data is still there, exactly as it was recorded. :eek:

As usual, can't tell you how a Canon works...... :naughty:
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I have always believed that this was the case (ie my comment) having seen this mentioned in a photo magazine when I first started. I prefer to photograph in colour and convert myself so I hadn't actually tried it. After your update I took a shot in b&w RAW and as I imported it into lightroom it just immediately turned back to colour. So, as you know, you are right!

Still don't see the point in the conversion on the camera though. I really like to use the de-saturation bit in photoshop and mess with the colours seperately to get just the black and white I want!
 
cowasaki said:
Never use the monochrome setting on the camera it is a waist of time. Always convert on the computer. You can adjust the reds, greens and blues to get just the right conversion. If the information is lost as it would be doing the conversion on the camera then it can never be retrieved. Also you might take a shot that you will want as black and white then find that it actually looks better in colour! This isn't an option if the camera converts it!
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Just because your experience of using MC didn't work out doesn't mean that someone else's wont.you cant be that general, I agree with the colour bit

So What did we do when it was film BW :shrug: did it not capture :shrug:

Well we we can tell tomoz, when I do my tests (cant wait now not being nasty just enthusiastic and interested) not sure of if your points valid, surely the tonal differences are captured,and just it the eye that cant notice MMMM

saying all that I would shoot colour and BW and convert, and shoot BW in both formats, same scene, but we'll see tomoz

Not being funny but its a experiment now we have many tools eg CR2

please dont say do it with films as well :bang:


ANYONE ELSE WANTS A GO love to see :thumbs: come on give it a go just to see
 
I shoot raw but I quite often use the red filter monotone when i know a shot i shoot is going to be converted into black and white as it lets me see roughly what the shot will look like after i process the raw from colour to b&w.

Some cameras let you have control over the monotone filters, my 20d does this. It can be usefull for letting you take pictures so the preview is close to the final processed shot. If the camera has no specific settings then it just desaturates all 3 channels equally and you end up with very flat monotone images.
 
devanjulie - I don't think you quite get what I am saying. The camera will convert into b&w using its own settings which might be 30% from Red, 35% from green and 35% from blue (I just made these figures up). Now if you stick with the built in conversion you cannot do anything about this. If you shoot RAW then convert in photoshop or similar then YOU can adjust the balance of light in real time looking at the conversion till the picture is JUST as YOU want rather than as the software would create.

Taking shots tomorrow in B&W and colour and converting the colour does not actually prove anything as it is all about personal choice and what you are photographing. I took a picture of my daughter sat on a log in the woods (this was in RAW & colour). I was then able to adjust this far better by eye using different setting to that which the computer would have used. If she was standing up with lots of blue sky in the background wearing a red dress I may want a different balance of red, green and blue.

This is much easier to demonstrate using half a dozen examples but I am sure you get the idea. Yes the b&w conversion in the camera will be b&w and yes it will be acceptable but we are talking about what is best not acceptable. If the camera chooses the figure I made up earlier then YOU could still choose these yourself so it cannot be worse doing it manually!

I have bought several books on shooting monochrome and the above is top tip no 1 in all of them!
 
cowasaki said:
devanjulie - I don't think you quite get what I am saying. The camera will convert into b&w using its own settings which might be 30% from Red, 35% from green and 35% from blue (I just made these figures up). Now if you stick with the built in conversion you cannot do anything about this. If you shoot RAW then convert in photoshop or similar then YOU can adjust the balance of light in real time looking at the conversion till the picture is JUST as YOU want rather than as the software would create.

Taking shots tomorrow in B&W and colour and converting the colour does not actually prove anything as it is all about personal choice and what you are photographing. I took a picture of my daughter sat on a log in the woods (this was in RAW & colour). I was then able to adjust this far better by eye using different setting to that which the computer would have used. If she was standing up with lots of blue sky in the background wearing a red dress I may want a different balance of red, green and blue.

This is much easier to demonstrate using half a dozen examples but I am sure you get the idea. Yes the b&w conversion in the camera will be b&w and yes it will be acceptable but we are talking about what is best not acceptable. If the camera chooses the figure I made up earlier then YOU could still choose these yourself so it cannot be worse doing it manually!

I have bought several books on shooting monochrome and the above is top tip no 1 in all of them!
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I see what you mean all your points are valid just I though it would be a good comparison for diff BW and Colour gives a goog comparison and wasn't knocking what you said just thought its something to think about

I need a mission :bang:

Dave
 
davenjulie said:
I see what you mean all your points are valid just I though it would be a good comparison for diff BW and Colour gives a goog comparison

I need a mission :bang:

Dave
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You go for it then :wave:

Its worth having a play anyway and you will learn a lot from all this so its not time wasted at all!
 
if you open it in photoshopt and hit ctrl+shift+u you'll get what a camera's default monotone output will look at.

Canon cameras (and im sure nikons too) alllow you adjust the filters so its like you where shooting on B&W film and trying out the different filters. If your shooting in raw+jpeg you have the option of seeing what the camera output is then processing the raw file however you like.
 
davenjulie said:
Cant believe that Soz :thinking:

Ok I know what you mean as Ive processed lots of BW and Colour films in my DR and many need, burning/dodge/blah/blah, over x number of years, (darnt tell you how many) in the enlarger its just the same in PS that is. only anyone can do it, wheres as before the tog or dev did it in their DR, the only difference is that I can get sharper with my enlarger than PS due to the more control I have on my enlagrer
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You can't compare digital sensors with film, b/w film has a greater dynamic range and exposure latitude than an un-processed digital file.
To approach the same level of rendition, you have to shoot digital colour and use all the available information in that file during pp.
Film is simply better as a raw material, but is much less convenient to use, especially if you have to convert to digital at the end to make a comparison.
Should do it the other way, make digital go to print and compare prints...:lol:

*edit* just to add to that cos I don't think this paragraph is dull/far enough off topic -

If comparing prints, B&W film has a home game and digital is the away team because it has to "pass" through a printer.

If comparing on screen, digital has a home game as the B&W film has to "pass" through a scanner.
 
Don't forget also if you end up with a jpg (and I've said it a number of times on this board) you only have an 8bit image......

.....by not shooting in RAW you're throwing away tons of the available data!

8bit = 16,581,375 levels (colours if you like)

12bit = 68,669,157,375 levels

14bit = 4,397,241,253,887 levels

Now, whether there is anything capable of displaying (print or projector) that displays to that degree of subtle tone is a moot point. But, in truth, 8 bit is only in 'kindergarten' compared to 14 bit which is doing an 'honours degree'!

(I think I've got the sums right)

So..... even companies such as photobox which print on 'proper' photographic emulsions, take only jpgs.

Place this within the context of a B/W - just how many of the available colour 'levels' will be in the final image?

256 grey scale image anyone? :naughty:
 
No, you're still much better buying some decent B&W film and a cheap film camera compatible with your lenses.
naaa.gif


In answer to the question you'll never get as good a pic from in camera conversion as PP later would give.
 
FFS! Rain won't stop you... Just make all the shots have a different ambiance to normal conditions.
 
Yeah, if its raining, its gonna be grey and overcast, perfect for B&W shooting then!
 
It's cloudy, so, umm, that's a good thing yes? Better conditions than sunshine for 90% of photography I'd say..

Re. shooting in B&W digi, I don't see the need, shoot in raw, but if you want a B&W image, then work it out before you shoot it. Don't just convert everything to B&W and then compare it to the colour shot to see 'which looks better.'
 
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