Any employment law experts about?

Flightphoto

Flightphoto

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Here's my story guys, basically, 6 months ago, I took up employment with the UK's largest bank. For the past 6 months I have been working 6 day weeks for a salary that's probably laughable to most for the work required. Fortunately I have been offered a position in IT for a local company that have offered me double the pay of my current employer. My current employment contract states 1 month so I did the deed and handed it in on the 14th which should mean my last working day would be the 14th Aug? The contract does not state calendar month, just 1 month. Anyway, my new employer have sent me a contract stating that my first starting date will be next week 11th August, I told my employer today that's what I've been given as the new company will not be able to pay my salary if I join after the 15th due to the way their payroll system works which effectively means I won't be paid for 7 weeks - I stated this to my manager of which she said no no no, I'm in a contract and I can't get out of it.

To make things a little simple;
I have handed in my notice to the bank due to the hours required that do not match the signed contract, Saturday working was never told in detail but once you're in, this bank basically states to you to work 11 out of 13 Saturdays or lose your job - when you have a newborn and a mortgage plus a wife on stat maternity pay you can imagine money is tight. I've also accrued around 14 days holiday plus lieu days that are owed but to be honest, I don't think I'm going to get paid for it due to the complete mess that HR do every month, to put such into context - I haven't received a correct salary since I started, only last month I was paid £60.31 due to an idiot putting my hours on the system as "sick leave", it took the HR wobbles 3 weeks to pay my salary. I'm just at wits end and want to leave the place immediately, the moral is awful with all of the staff due to the way people are treated, it's not a local thing as there seem to be a lot of "verbal" contracts given after you start the job. :-(

Any help would be appreciated, I just don't want to find that if I don't turn up next week that I will be at the end of some legal action from them - nothing is stated in the contract regarding immediate resignation so am I right in thinking that they have to right to do such unless I agree at start of employment?
Luckily I get on with everyone but it just seems that there's a poison that runs throughout the moral of employment and will show itself when you confront it!
 
I'm no lawyer, just bloody minded :D
So I'd repeat this back to them,
and state that you refuse to work any more Saturdays, on the grounds that you have a young family ;)

this bank basically states to you to work 11 out of 13 Saturdays or lose your job -

You could always go sick due to the stress of "everything" of course.

That's just me though, as I said bloody minded :D
 
There are plenty barrack room experts on TP and I'm sure many will be along soon eventually hijacking the thread onto something else. However, I'm no employment expert but I must ask, what is more important to you, a job with double the salary and better conditions or some dead end bank who can't even pay you on time and risk losing the good job ? I know what I would be doing, tell the old place to poke it and sort the problems later.
 
phone in sick or just don't turn up. they can't really do anything
 
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At the moment I'm tempted to just phone in sick. I just hope I don't face legal repercussions because of it. I'm happy to receive no pay, just want to escape the s***e hole! The trouble is I have stupidly done the honest thing and let them know that my new employment would* start on Monday. I said to my father in law that the bank were pretty good at mis selling to customers so imagine how vague their own employment contracts are!!!!
 
Worth a read:
http://employmentlawclinic.com/articles/notice-periods/

I'd personally walk away on the last day practical for you and start on the 11th stating stress / child care or simply tell them to stick it. They can't withhold your wages and although they could turn nasty afterwards i'd imagine they'll be spending their energy on the next poor sod lined up to replace you.
 
Walk away from your current position.
Money might be tight for a short while, but if the new position is secure, and it looks like it is.....ride it out.
It's not worth the legal hassle.
 
viv1969 said:
Walk away from your current position.
Money might be tight for a short while, but if the new position is secure, and it looks like it is.....ride it out.
It's not worth the legal hassle.
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Yep I agree - walk away
 
Thanks guys, I'm going to work up to Friday and then resign on the way out :-)

I really can't see any way for them to seek legal action for the sake of 3 days, considering I am still owed accrued holiday and lieu days? They have been made aware 1 week before the day that I leave which is fair considering I'm sure I'm not the first to have just walked out and never turn up again?

The trouble with the bank is there is no HR expert, it's all based on an online ticket system, no one with actual knowledge, heck, when I received £60 for a months salary the idiot on the phone at payroll reckoned it was correct that I should be on 10pence per hour for that month, he was reading from a script clearly and had no actual idea of income tax.......
 
Flightphoto said:
The trouble with the bank is there is no HR expert, it's all based on an online ticket system, no one with actual knowledge, heck, when I received £60 for a months salary the idiot on the phone at payroll reckoned it was correct that I should be on 10pence per hour for that month, he was reading from a script clearly and had no actual idea of income tax.......
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That's pretty disgusting considering the "status" of the company :(
I'm sure you are not the 1st to walk out on a Friday and not return on the Monday either!

Good luck with the new job :thumbs:
 
I know, banks are pretty good at holding onto money aren't they ;-) I would love to disclose the many illegal practices carried out every day I'm sworn into a blood written contract - everything else is vague until the page regarding information exchange between competitors and disclosing company secrets......
 
You have to be paid nmw no matter what for hours worked. There is no legal way round it.

Hope new job goes well. I'd tell the new company you'll probably get a rotten reference from your old employer due to you leaving a couple of days early.

Tell current lot those missing days from the notice are holiday so they will only have to pay accrued minus those days.

If the bank is the co-op or any of the state funded banks I'm sure a newspaper would be interested! I think whistleblowing is protected so you can mention illegal practices to the relevant authorities if you have a gagging clause in your employment contract. You could always write an anonymous book in a fictitious bank anyway :D
 
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Good luck with your new job.

Incidentally they cannot give you a bad reference. ...the worst they can do is decline to give one. But given that you have the new job its incidental.
 
I would be concentrating on the new job, as thats where your future is.
 
Flightphoto said:
Thanks guys, I'm going to work up to Friday and then resign on the way out :)

[..]
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Correct me if I wrong, but surely you have resigned already - on 14th July. You are just working out your notice now. No need to say anything on Friday.

Anthony.
 
If they didn't tell you about the Saturdays, and it is not listed in your contract, they have already breached their own. If you were here in Australia I'm fairly sure as they have breached their own contract and therefore cannot expect you to stand by one that is already breached.

I'm no expert, I just spend a lot of time dealing with contracts.

Congratulations on your new job :)
 
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If youve accrued 14 days holiday use some of them(3 days) at the end of your time at the bank to enable you to star on the 11th with the new company. all legit and above board, bank happy, new employer happy, you happy. Well, bank wont be happy but not a lot they can do about it I dont think.
 
One months notice can be one calendar month, i.e. handed in on the 14th, your last day would be 13th of the following month
They can refuse to allow you to take holiday, but then they have to pay for any days you haven't taken, pro rata.
Either way - start your new job when they want. You have no loyalty to your current position, especially if you feel they've treated you badly
 
Another thing, as you havent had any time off for such along time I'd even think of trying to use up most of your leave and have a week off at least before starting the new post. If the bank start being arsey anyway and start witholding your final months pay then at least you had some time off and didnt work it all unpaid. You arent going to accrue any days at the new position for months by which time it'll be winter.
Also try and keep any evidence you have of the hours youve worked, your contract etc so if it did come to a small claims court case to get the money you are due, its not just your word against theirs. Absolutely no way should you end up leaving and writing off your last months pay for any reason at all though.
 
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viv1969 said:
Good luck with your new job.

Incidentally they cannot give you a bad reference. ...the worst they can do is decline to give one. But given that you have the new job its incidental.
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they can give a bad reference they just can't be personal about it .

eg Ross work for at company x for two year but had poor time keeping.
 
POAH said:
they can give a bad reference they just can't be personal about it .

eg Ross work for at company x for two year but had poor time keeping.
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They can, but most won't because of the chance of legal action being brought against them if thier reference (accurate or not) results in a job offer being withdrawn.
And really, to decline to provide a reference for a former employee speaks volumes itself, and is risk free :-)
 
like others have said i would just walk out on the last day you want. what can they do, fire you?! :p

worst they'll likely do (and most likely) is not pay you for the missed days. legally it would probably cost them more to pursue you for, but if they've not paid you I don't really see what that would achieve.
 
Cheers guys. I would have enjoyed the idea of using accrued holiday etc but they require 8 weeks notice for holiday!! This is by far the worst company I have ever worked for, I really can't explain how truly savage they are towards staff and how employment law is an often overlooked problem!
 
viv1969 said:
They can, but most won't because of the chance of legal action being brought against them if thier reference (accurate or not) results in a job offer being withdrawn.
And really, to decline to provide a reference for a former employee speaks volumes itself, and is risk free :-)
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as far as I know a job offer can't be withdrawn because of a reference. references are more these days to just back up what you wrote in your CV. so if I say I can determine protein structure by NMR my phd supervisor would either agree or disagree (well I hope agree). they are almost pointless now
 
POAH said:
as far as I know a job offer can't be withdrawn because of a reference. references are more these days to just back up what you wrote in your CV. so if I say I can determine protein structure by NMR my phd supervisor would either agree or disagree (well I hope agree). they are almost pointless now
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Job offers can be withdrawn because of a poor reference, and many are still made "Subject to References".
I agree though...pretty pointless!
 
POAH said:
as far as I know a job offer can't be withdrawn because of a reference. references are more these days to just back up what you wrote in your CV. so if I say I can determine protein structure by NMR my phd supervisor would either agree or disagree (well I hope agree). they are almost pointless now
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references aren't really about abilities though - that's what probationary periods are for - so if you say you can determine protein structure by NMR as a hiring manager i'll believe you because I'll have 3 months to fire you if it turn out you can't.

on the other hand if you reference says " on the rare occasions he was sober he was rude, and we had to fire him when he was found to be stealing from the company" - then I'm going to withdraw a job offer made subject to references. At which point you'll probably make a request to see your reference and sue the previous employer if they've written anything they can't prove.

which is why on the whole employers either give a good reference,, or they give a reference that states only " he worked for us from this date to this date" most hiring managers can read between the lines on the latter
 
screw em and go stress sick - if its not in your contract theres nothing they can do - they have to pay you what you are owed as its against the law to withhold monies due - they also cant make deductions apart from tax and insurance again its against the law - good look in your new job
 
big soft moose said:
references aren't really about abilities though - that's what probationary periods are for - so if you say you can determine protein structure by NMR as a hiring manager i'll believe you because I'll have 3 months to fire you if it turn out you can't.
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thats not how it works in my line of business
 
going sick isnt a great idea - you'll have a medical clearance for your new job and its quite possible the OH depts will talk to each other (aumming they are in the same line of business) , and ditto with bunking off, word gets arround between managers

personally i'd say just work the notice you are supposed to work, then put it behind you as a bad experience
 
POAH said:
thats not how it works in my line of business
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really ? - i thought you were in university research depts - My sister is in that line and she's always had to have probation etc (course may be its different north of the border)
 
big soft moose said:
going sick isnt a great idea - you'll have a medical clearance for your new job and its quite possible the OH depts will talk to each other (aumming they are in the same line of business) , and ditto with bunking off, word gets arround between managers
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Bit OTT this I reckon. At the end of his time there, 3 days off, tough, no one at his new place is going to give a flying <rhymes with duck>.
 
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DorsetDude said:
Bit OTT this I reckon. At the end of his time there, 3 days off, tough, no one at his new place is going to give a flying <rhymes with duck>.
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until it turns out that his new manager is a drinking buddy of his old one , and he brands the OP as unreliable , which isnt a rep you want when you are starting out in a new place. - Personally as a manager i wouldnt be bothered if someone wanted 3 days leave on the end of his notice - but i'd be dead p***ed off if they just went absent for three days (especially as there are probably leaver procedures to go through on the last day which his boss should have programmed in his diary already) without asking

thats the 'low road' reasoning, the 'high road' says that a man is only as good as his word and that he should do what he says he'll do.
 
also the new employer is being a little disingenous about pay - while most payroll systems do work to set dates, I've never encountered one that isnt able to make an 'emergency payment' in the situation described

Personally i'd be going to my new manager and saying "look i cant start til after x date because i'm contracted to xyz bank til then, asnd i'm sure you'll appreciate that I don't want to pull a sickie etc because i have an obligation to keep my word to them, is there any chance that you could authorise an interim payment after week 3 so that i'm not 7 weeks without a pay cheque " if its a good employer it won't be a problem - and if they do refuse it will give you a good steer on what they are like in employee satisfaction stakes
 
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Flightphoto said:
Here's my story guys, basically, 6 months ago, I took up employment with the UK's largest bank. For the past 6 months I have been working 6 day weeks for a salary that's probably laughable to most for the work required. Fortunately I have been offered a position in IT for a local company that have offered me double the pay of my current employer. My current employment contract states 1 month so I did the deed and handed it in on the 14th which should mean my last working day would be the 14th Aug? The contract does not state calendar month, just 1 month. Anyway, my new employer have sent me a contract stating that my first starting date will be next week 11th August, I told my employer today that's what I've been given as the new company will not be able to pay my salary if I join after the 15th due to the way their payroll system works which effectively means I won't be paid for 7 weeks - I stated this to my manager of which she said no no no, I'm in a contract and I can't get out of it.
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If you're new employer is (a) more understanding than your current employer, and (b) really wants you to work for them, then there are always ways and means of making an interim payment even if its not the full salary but just enough to get you through.

I agree with Pete, going sick is not a valid option - because if you're fit enough to work for your new employer it's a breach of contract to call in sick with your current employer. They can tie up any investigation into this for weeks if need be and delay any final settlement of money/holiday owed. And that will delay issue of your P45 so you'll be on a temporary tax code for longer.

I think your new employer could be more understanding. And you are contractually bound to your current employer, regardless of how bad that contract is.


Plan B - will your new employer let you take five days unpaid leave? You sign the contract with them to start on 11th, take the unpaid leave to work off your notice with your current employer and then start with them on Monday 18th? As far as payroll with your new employer is concerned you were on the books before the cut-off, as far as your current employer is concerned you've met the contracted obligations to work notice, as far as your new employer is concerned it'scost them nothing and kept everyone happy - including their new and highly valued employee..
 
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