Another thing I could do with understanding!

ryanyboy said:
On the subject of critique my recent picture of kelly and Sam really failed to garner any feedback - and I would have loved some :(

Zoe gave a fair critique - thanks Zoe. Although I never quite understood why you didn't follow up my response. Anyway, it does make me wonder why I bother - and I critique a hell of a lot of other peoples images - as honestly as I can. It's give and take folks :nono:
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Oh, sorry, not intentional, I've possibly not found that thread again, not sure! Give me a link and I'll happily look at what you wrote.
 
OK, so in this spirit of understanding and learning, we have established that some people like to hear it as it is, honestly and clearly so that they can learn from the critique, be it of their own images or others. And then there are others who only like to hear things said in a sugarcoated manner because they perceive the honesty to be negative or harsh. And then there are those who simply want to hear nice things to encourage them with their camera skills.

Crikey, how on earth do you distinguish between that lot :lol: It is a bit confusing though when someone sticks something in critique - colour coding maybe :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
ZoZo said:
OK, so in this spirit of understanding and learning, we have established that some people like to hear it as it is, honestly and clearly so that they can learn from the critique, be it of their own images or others. And then there are others who only like to hear things said in a sugarcoated manner because they perceive the honesty to be negative or harsh. And then there are those who simply want to hear nice things to encourage them with their camera skills.

Crikey, how on earth do you distinguish between that lot :lol: It is a bit confusing though when someone sticks something in critique - colour coding maybe :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Easy solution....just be nice and always remember the person on the other end of the crit might not posses the thick skin you yourself have.

If you hang around long enough, it will soon get easier to judge who can take the crit without any sugar coating.

I still reckon pointing out only the negatives in an image is pretty wrong even though I do it myself. It's important to acknowledge why it may work on some levels too,

G.
 
I honestly think you have missed the point. It's not black and white but a number of people, me included, are encouraging the critique but feel some positive elements should be picked up as part of the critique. For example " I like the way you did xyz but think you could improve by ......".

I also think it's important to ensure comments do not come across aggressively. I've not read any of your critiques so that is not directed at you or anyone in particular but I have read some that left me with that feeling even though it was not my shot being discussed.

I value the input of those better than me (and that's most) but I will learn more if done in a friendly manner.

Ken
 
gingerjon said:
As an aside, it's noticeable that the "In depth critique" bit is about the quietest section on the forum.
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Posting limits are a pain in the ass. One a day, one image per thread. Much easier to stick it in the relevant section too, at least those interested in the type of shot will see it....

Just ask for proper crit in the opening post :)

G.
 
Just followed Ryan's links and can now use a real example of positive followed by critique in a constructive manner, viz:
"It's a good image, Ryan. I find myself wondering how much stronger it would be if you had placed the couple off centre"

I think this is a good example of a positive critique - well done, keep it up.

Ken
 
ZoZo said:
OK, so in this spirit of understanding and learning, we have established that some people like to hear it as it is, honestly and clearly so that they can learn from the critique, be it of their own images or others. And then there are others who only like to hear things said in a sugarcoated manner because they perceive the honesty to be negative or harsh. And then there are those who simply want to hear nice things to encourage them with their camera skills.

Crikey, how on earth do you distinguish between that lot :lol: It is a bit confusing though when someone sticks something in critique - colour coding maybe :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Maybe there should be a 'thickness of skin' icon under people's username that everyone has to choose. Maybe 4 levels ranging from 1.wafer thin: please say you love me, to 4. elephantitis thick: I don't give a tinker's cuss what you say, I am just ace.

Or not.
 
Dangleman said:
Maybe there should be a 'thickness of skin' icon under people's username that everyone has to choose. Maybe 4 levels ranging from 1.wafer thin: please say you love me, to 4. elephantitis thick: I don't give a tinker's cuss what you say, I am just ace.

Or not.
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Seriously, a system like that could work.

1: Just starting out
2: Keen to learn
3: Seeking in depth crit
4: No holds barred

G.
 
Dangleman said:
Maybe there should be a 'thickness of skin' icon under people's username that everyone has to choose. Maybe 4 levels ranging from 1.wafer thin: please say you love me, to 4. elephantitis thick: I don't give a tinker's cuss what you say, I am just ace.

Or not.
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:D

Mine's 0.

(But I know you love me really) :lol:
 
EdinburghGary said:
Seriously, a system like that could work.

1: Just starting out
2: Keen to learn
3: Seeking in depth crit
4: No holds barred

G.
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what about:-

5: I'm professional and only sycophantic feedback is allowed.



:coat:
 
EdinburghGary said:
Seriously, a system like that could work.

1: Just starting out
2: Keen to learn
3: Seeking in depth crit
4: No holds barred

G.
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been discussed and talked about time after time after time after time and then once or twice more...


md
 
We could call it your critthick(ness) rating. I shall be charging the mods forthwith for my consultation.

I'd be level 7 - bring it on ;). Only jokin, please say you love me.
 
Surely all this talk of scales for the type of feedback you'd like is getting just a little bit ridiculous? :eek:

If people are really that affected by what someone on an internet forum says about their photos then they could probably do with getting out a bit more. :bang:
 
slimboy fat said:
Surely all this talk of scales for the type of feedback you'd like is getting just a little bit ridiculous? :eek:

If people are really that affected by what someone on an internet forum says about their photos then they could probably do with getting out a bit more. :bang:
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Dude,

You just hit us with a level 4 reply. Seriously. :(

G.
 
ryanyboy said:
On the subject of critique my recent picture of kelly and Sam really failed to garner any feedback - and I would have loved some :(

Zoe gave a fair critique - thanks Zoe. Although I never quite understood why you didn't follow up my response. Anyway, it does make me wonder why I bother - and I critique a hell of a lot of other peoples images - as honestly as I can. It's give and take folks :nono:
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I have to disagree, I think you got feedback and fair feedback. I personally couldn't see anything wrong with the image, the only thing that I didn't like was obvious so I didn't mention it (and couldn't be avoided - ie the dress, but mostly the underskirt sticking at an akward angle, it was obvious that it was like that for an unavoidable reason, it didn't spoil the shot etc etc, so it's not really worth banging on about, when the reasonings are so obvious) other than that, it's a terribly romantic shot. I didn't see any one liners like "nice shot" there was always a comment with it.

Sometimes a person can only say that you like/dislike a shot and not why, sometimes a person can say why but not give advice and sometimes a person can do all of the above.

The other thing to sometimes consider in crit is the progress that someone has made. For example...

DSC01536.jpg

This shot I took in October

1-1.jpg

This shot I took in March

There are obvious differences, I personally think that there's been an obvious progression in my shots, if only framing and positioning me, but there is still loads wrong with the second image, just a little less wrong than the first. (Hope that makes sense?)

Someone who has just bought their camera and taking their first shots, sometimes sugar coating crit is the way to go "ie, I like x, however blah..."

I would have probably been disheartened if my first images were torn to shreds without any positive comments too.

(Hope that makes sense?)
 
That would be a nightmare to mod...can you imagine the reported posts:

"I have a level 2 crit rating but they just gave me a level 3 critique and it hurts :( sob"

:D
 
Dark Star said:
That would be a nightmare to mod...can you imagine the reported posts:

"I have a level 2 crit rating but they just gave me a level 3 critique and it hurts :( sob"

:D
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Lmfao


md
 
Surely there's room for moderation here, we are all different in our approach and skin thickness, but having said that, its common politeness not to offend even when offering critique. As has been said, critique when its positive has to be good in most cases, but when this is offset by a positive, it makes all the difference to the receiver and offers encouragement as well as instruction.
A few 'nice pics' comments don't go astray, but when explained as to why they are nice makes the comment more valuable. None of us see every picture in the same way and when we post a picture its expected that there will be a mixed response. As a true amateur at the bottom of the learning curve, I don't see details in the same way as the more experienced members or the professionals do, and reading their comments on mine as well as others posts has been a massive help to my learning. Aggressive comments on my posts would have possibly made me either pack in in my early months, or certainly stop me from trying again and just stick to snap shots. However, the comments I did get were polite and constructive and were a massive help, and still are. To sum up, I feel from life's experience that most of us are not thick skinned (even if we don't admit it), and to have what we think is a fair effort rudely trashed is demoralising. The purpose of critique is to help not destroy, so offering help in a polite way is worth much more than a harsh and curt comment.
 
I for one, as a new photographer would much rather have someone analyse the good and bad parts of a picture so that I can develop and learn. I think it is important to give a balanced view where possible. Becuase sometimes people criticse rather than critique. As I have had feedback saying, "doesn't do anything for me." and thats all i got, doesn't help anyone.
 
Chris G said:
. As I have had feedback saying, "doesn't do anything for me." and thats all i got, doesn't help anyone.
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Good point! Worthless comment unless they're going to explain why, or how it could be better, and pretty well guaranteed to leave a bad taste in the mouth for the person showing the image.
 
ZoZo said:
why does it become the responsibility of the person identifying how the image could be improve to do things with care, the good news sandwich, rather than the person who puts up the image and REQUESTS critique taking the responsibility to accept the requested critique. (That doesn't mean they have to agree with it, by the way)
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Well I don't agree with those suggesting you shouldn't give the critique you give. But I also think comments like 'nice shot' are actually helpful (and I'm not suggesting you should make those comments Zoe, just that it can help when some others make them - will explain why I think that below).

Some posters here are confident in their ability, and would have no problem posting a shot where all replies give some critique of the shot with no compliments at all. They will learn from the critique and their skills will improve. If a professional posts a decent image, it's perhaps not necessary to compliment them on the shot, and better just to get on with the ways the image could be improved.

A lot of posters however are not sure whether their photos are good, alright or poor (their friends say they're good, but that doesn't mean they'll get approval on a photography forum), and aren't sure whether they should post them in the first place. So if an image is posted that is nice (despite the fact that it could be improved in a few ways), telling the OP it's nice will boost their confidence, encouraging them to take more photos and post more of them online, and learn even more. Obviously just telling them it's nice without anyone suggesting ways of improving the image wouldn't be so helpful, I think it's useful to have a mix of critique and encouragement.
 
EdinburghGary said:
I hear you mate. I definitely think there is room for improvement in the accepting crit area. Some people really don't like it.
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Joined this a bit late and haven't read everything but this goes a lot further than just critiquing imagery. A well critiqued section of this forum is the Talk Business / Photography. A lot of the honest feedback is flipped around to make the poster look like the bad guy simply because some people really don't like it.
 
Triggaaar said:
Oh so you beat me to the joke, but deemed it not funny enough for you. I'll be sure to come and critique your stand up at the Edinburgh festival :p
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I would say whilst the joke was potentially funny, it was delivered without punch or pizazz. Hope this crit is not too harsh, as I really think you could be a great comic! Just structure the joke a little better next time, perhaps have more of a build up and slowly lead us into the catchline.






:D

King_Boru said:
Joined this a bit late and haven't read everything but this goes a lot further than just critiquing imagery. A well critiqued section of this forum is the Talk Business / Photography. A lot of the honest feedback is flipped around to make the poster look like the bad guy simply because some people really don't like it.
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Not sure I follow exactly....has been a long day though! :)
 
EdinburghGary said:
Not sure I follow exactly....has been a long day though! :)
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Taking critique out of context and seeing it from a defensive point of view (happened on this thread too). In turn not liking it.

...,still reading the thread,...
 
it depends how you go about it. If I like a picture and can't see anything wrong with it, I will say something like 'top shots there' and add a reason or two. If I see something that needs changing in my eyes, I will say it. I expect the same back. But I'm not going to write an essay as I don't post very often in 'in depth critique'.
 
Reading this thread (now in its entirety) I can't help but post this:

Penis-Cat.jpg


:coat:
 
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