Another camera choice problem

petebuster1

petebuster1

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peter
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Well i think i may have tried to run before i can walk:lol: ive now sold my 60d due to the fact i was useing my x-s1 far more as i find it easier to use and for its all round capabilities in one package,that with the awful weather, bulk of the 60d and its rather more complicated features,lack of time to get used to it, and i really didn't want to fork out on more lenses.I think i'll leave dslr till a later date.
So now its gone:'( Now obviously the x-s1 is no small camera so i do need something i can carry everywhere (and therefore get more used to manual settings) and most important is good image quality.
I cant decide on a csc like the epl3,gx1,g3 or gh1 or an advanced fuji x10, xz-1, p7100.
Is there any great image quality differences between any of these or is it really down to ergonomics?
Any pointers much appreciated
 
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CSCs will give an edge when it comes to IQ because of the bigger sensors but you will still be lugging extra bulk around. If its pocketability and IQ you want then the XZ-1, P7100 are better choices.

One important question though, do you have any Canon specific accessories ? Flashguns in particular. If so then don't dismiss the Canon G series. The G1x for ultimate, almost DSLR IQ (huge sensor but still a little bulky) and the closest focus distance sucks,
or the G15 as an all rounder for everything from macro (1cm close focussing), f1.8 lens (2.8 at tele end), Jpeg and Raw, optical viewfinder for the bright days when the screen on the back is as much use as a chocolate ashtray, and really quite impressive IQ for the sensor size and very pocketable . Big bonus with these 2 is that all your Canon hotshoe accessories will work fully. This opens up these little cameras to all kinds of possibilities with dedicated TTL and Off camera flash etc.
I sold my G7 and got a G15 from Santa and I have to tell you I am very impressed, loving it, loving it, loving it. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-powershot-g15

BTW I got mine from Digital Rev for £299, Jessops wanted £549 !!
 
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If you look in the X-10 thread, you'll see many a good shot from Duncan and reference to being more than up to the task of printing out to A3 with minimal processing, which you'd know anyway from the X-S1 using exactly the same sensor.
 
Gazamonk said:
CSCs will give an edge when it comes to IQ because of the bigger sensors but you will still be lugging extra bulk around. If its pocketability and IQ you want then the XZ-1, P7100 are better choices.

One important question though, do you have any Canon specific accessories ? Flashguns in particular. If so then don't dismiss the Canon G series. The G1x for ultimate, almost DSLR IQ (huge sensor but still a little bulky) and the closest focus distance sucks,
or the G15 as an all rounder for everything from macro (1cm close focussing), f1.8 lens (2.8 at tele end), Jpeg and Raw, optical viewfinder for the bright days when the screen on the back is as much use as a chocolate ashtray, and really quite impressive IQ for the sensor size and very pocketable . Big bonus with these 2 is that all your Canon hotshoe accessories will work fully. This opens up these little cameras to all kinds of possibilities with dedicated TTL and Off camera flash etc.
I sold my G7 and got a G15 from Santa and I have to tell you I am very impressed, loving it, loving it, loving it. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-powershot-g15

BTW I got mine from Digital Rev for £299, Jessops wanted £549 !!
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very good point thank you, i still have the flashgun, the g15 might be a very good option. I tend to avoid jessops anyway some of their prices are ridiculous. Also doesnt have to be pocket size, small camera bag size is fine but i think would prefer something with a bigger sensor than my x-s1
 
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PJ S said:
If you look in the X-10 thread, you'll see many a good shot from Duncan and reference to being more than up to the task of printing out to A3 with minimal processing, which you'd know anyway from the X-S1 using exactly the same sensor.
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would their be much point on getting a camera with the same sensor i've already got :thinking:
 
In relation to the previous reply, then perhaps not - but what exactly are you looking for it to do?
You've mentioned the X-10 in your opening post, but you've then said above it doesn't have to be pocketable.
If the X-S1 is considered too bulky, then almost by default logic, you have to be looking at something which is pocketable rather than a fraction smaller than the X-S1.

With the X-10, at least you'll know what to expect and be familiar with the settings & controls.

Sony RX-100? Glowing review on Luminous Landscape, as well as the X-10.
Hope you manage to figure out what it is you're aiming to achieve, which will certainly narrow down the choices, making it easier to decide upon what make and model gets the nod.
 
PJ S said:
In relation to the previous reply, then perhaps not - but what exactly are you looking for it to do?
You've mentioned the X-10 in your opening post, but you've then said above it doesn't have to be pocketable.
If the X-S1 is considered too bulky, then almost by default logic, you have to be looking at something which is pocketable rather than a fraction smaller than the X-S1.

With the X-10, at least you'll know what to expect and be familiar with the settings & controls.

Sony RX-100? Glowing review on Luminous Landscape, as well as the X-10.
Hope you manage to figure out what it is you're aiming to achieve, which will certainly narrow down the choices, making it easier to decide upon what make and model gets the nod.
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Not sure what i want to achieve as such other than to see what i can do and hopefully take some great pictures,(mainly outdoors) what i mean by "doesn't have to be pocketable" is obviously with some lenses on csc's your going to need a small bag rather than a pocket with the lens on but want something of that size for more every day use rather than a big camera and big bag, id be happy with fuji or canon in terms of being used to them and with the reviews i've read either would be a good choice. I'm just not sure if a csc would produce that much better IQ or not.
 
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In terms of IQ for say A4 sized prints would there really be any great difference between csc and the above advanced compacts? Hope i'm not sounding silly but when you read reviews they often seem to rate a camera right up there then slaughter it with something else, all can be very confusing
 
One of the biggest drawback I've found with smaller sensor cameras isn't the image quality as such (if you can avoid pixel peeping) but the relative lack of dynamic range leading to highlights blowing way too easily or needing to boost the shadows to a point that destroys image quality.
 
All I can do is reiterate that you read at least the first half dozen or so pages of the X-10 thread, and if you've questions, Duncan and Yv (female moderator) and others in there can tell you what to expect PQ wise.
Beyond that then you're into bigger money for the likes of the rangefinder style X-E1/X-Pro 1.
If you start heading off down the CSC route with their lenses, then you're knocking on NEX's door, and Panny/Oly 4/3rds - at which point, aside from the cost, you'll wind up lugging as much around in a bag, as you would with just the X-S1.

That review on LL I referred to previously, stated the RX100 was THE camera to beat in its sector.
Maybe that's the one to satisfy your nearly-as-good-as-a-DSLR craving.

Maybe the truth of the matter is you're yearning for a DSLR, but in a smaller form - if so, then have a read through the arguments here........http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=456312
 
PJ S said:
If you start heading off down the CSC route with their lenses, then you're knocking on NEX's door, and Panny/Oly 4/3rds - at which point, aside from the cost, you'll wind up lugging as much around in a bag, as you would with just the X-S1.
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IMVHO, no you wont. The biggest CSC bodies are as large as the smaller DSLR bodies but most are smaller and lighter and as a package even the largest CSC's probably still have a bulk and possibly weight advantage as a CSC lens may well be smaller and lighter than a DSLR lens.

The key is to decide if any difference is significant for you.
 
Are you seriously quibbling over a few hundred grams in weight?
As for bulk, last time I looked, the longer zooms weren't pancake size.
Have you held/used an X-S1 at all?
In case you've failed to notice, the OP has ditched his DSLR, in favour of the X-S1.
So we're not comparing to a DSLR rig, but his current X-S1.
 
If I was after a small carrying around camera now I would go for an RX100. After having a play around with them in a shop I was impressed by the speed (especially AF) and the general built and feel of it. And that is without the IQ which is right up there too.
 
As for size, I bought a few different cameras as a carry around and made a few mistakes as the size was still too big to actually slip into my pocket (X10, X100)

I now just used a Ricoh GRD as my carry around as it really is small yet superb to use (the best control layout of any compact I have come across)
 
PJ S said:
Are you seriously quibbling over a few hundred grams in weight?
As for bulk, last time I looked, the longer zooms weren't pancake size.
Have you held/used an X-S1 at all?
In case you've failed to notice, the OP has ditched his DSLR, in favour of the X-S1.
So we're not comparing to a DSLR rig, but his current X-S1.
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Thank you your quite right, forget DSLR i'm not expecting a 5d and prime lens IQ and all the camera's i mentioned would be fine size wise even the epl3 or gx1 with a lens are far smaller than the 60d and x-s1 and easy to carry around so thats not an issue.:thumbs:
If its a csc i would go for one of the above, i wouldn't want a bucket load of lenses so thats not an issue either.My main issue is really is whether the iq on these is that much better (if at all) than say the x10 rx100 p7100,g15 etc. Then its just a case of what i prefer the look and feel of.
 
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PJ S said:
All I can do is reiterate that you read at least the first half dozen or so pages of the X-10 thread, and if you've questions, Duncan and Yv (female moderator) and others in there can tell you what to expect PQ wise.
Beyond that then you're into bigger money for the likes of the rangefinder style X-E1/X-Pro 1.
If you start heading off down the CSC route with their lenses, then you're knocking on NEX's door, and Panny/Oly 4/3rds - at which point, aside from the cost, you'll wind up lugging as much around in a bag, as you would with just the X-S1.

That review on LL I referred to previously, stated the RX100 was THE camera to beat in its sector.
Maybe that's the one to satisfy your nearly-as-good-as-a-DSLR craving.

Maybe the truth of the matter is you're yearning for a DSLR, but in a smaller form - if so, then have a read through the arguments here........http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=456312
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The x10 is certainly in the running.Yearning for dslr-No thats why i sold my 60d.I'm not looking for pro IQ just as good as i can get in a smaller package and all the csc are far smaller than the 60d and my x-s1 even with lenses and will have no need to lug lenses around (2 lenses would be ample)
 
Do you need a zoom range with your new small purchase, and if so, what?
Do you like using the EVF on your big Fuji or would you like the 'freedom' of only an LCD?
Do you want the camera itself to produce pleasantly coloured nice sharp Jpegs or are you happy to process RAW files?

Just three questions : without the answers who could possibly advise?
 
Ulfric M Douglas said:
Do you need a zoom range with your new small purchase, and if so, what?
Do you like using the EVF on your big Fuji or would you like the 'freedom' of only an LCD?
Do you want the camera itself to produce pleasantly coloured nice sharp Jpegs or are you happy to process RAW files?

Just three questions : without the answers who could possibly advise?
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zoom not that important as i have that on my x-s1, i do have a panny 45-200 mm lens also which i could use if i went csc.
evf/lcd not important i'm used to both.
Happy with jpeg to be honest but would like raw as an option
pleasantly coloured nice sharp Jpegs would be the priority and fast af, also must be good build quality really dont like plasticy cameras
 
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Peter, I'm going to bow out as I feel I've done all I can to help.
I'm still utterly baffled as to what it is exactly you're after, other than something smaller than the X-S1.
For me, reading through this whole thread from the start, and now you've dropped the Panny lens into the conversation, late on, I keep coming back to the conclusion you've not let go of the DSLR in your mind.
Practicality aside, you rationalised the keeping of the X-S1 due to the 60D staying at home more often than not, but now the X-S1 is too big to carry around daily or whatever.

I see someone wanting to square up a circle in the vein of considering CSC and a couple of lenses (which could easily become 3 or 4 down the line) as the way to go, but the impression I picked up initially was someone wanting a very capable and decent P&S'er.

As I've pointed out, the X-10 thread here suggests (confirms?) that it is able to print up to A3 without batting an eyelid or being made to look out of its depth.
The LL review pulls no punches that the RX100 is THE camera in this sector to beat, an d I know a number of members on another forum regard LL's approach to reviewing very highly - it's ALL about IQ, everything else beyond that is inconsequential, for all intent purposes.

So, I'm struggling to see how the CSC is in any way, shape or form, a realistic option - and to that end I'd say flog the Panny lens to (part) fund a good P&S.

The other option based around the CSC aspect, is sell the X-S1, and just go headlong into that form factor, since if that starts to show up the X-S1, it's going to become the stay-at-home item!

Best of luck figuring out what's going to satisfy your toy lust. :D
 
PJ S said:
Peter, I'm going to bow out as I feel I've done all I can to help.
I'm still utterly baffled as to what it is exactly you're after, other than something smaller than the X-S1.
For me, reading through this whole thread from the start, and now you've dropped the Panny lens into the conversation, late on, I keep coming back to the conclusion you've not let go of the DSLR in your mind.
Practicality aside, you rationalised the keeping of the X-S1 due to the 60D staying at home more often than not, but now the X-S1 is too big to carry around daily or whatever.

I see someone wanting to square up a circle in the vein of considering CSC and a couple of lenses (which could easily become 3 or 4 down the line) as the way to go, but the impression I picked up initially was someone wanting a very capable and decent P&S'er.

As I've pointed out, the X-10 thread here suggests (confirms?) that it is able to print up to A3 without batting an eyelid or being made to look out of its depth.
The LL review pulls no punches that the RX100 is THE camera in this sector to beat, an d I know a number of members on another forum regard LL's approach to reviewing very highly - it's ALL about IQ, everything else beyond that is inconsequential, for all intent purposes.

So, I'm struggling to see how the CSC is in any way, shape or form, a realistic option - and to that end I'd say flog the Panny lens to (part) fund a good P&S.

The other option based around the CSC aspect, is sell the X-S1, and just go headlong into that form factor, since if that starts to show up the X-S1, it's going to become the stay-at-home item!

Best of luck figuring out what's going to satisfy your toy lust. :D
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I appreciate your comments and have taken on board the x10/RX100 as possibles, not sure where you get this DSLR thing from :bang: i think ive already explained, i'm simply exploring options and interested if anyone may have any of the camera's i mentioned and their experiences with them.
The main issue/question i have is IQ between csc and advanced p&s (NOT DSLR) is there any great difference ie x10 v gx1? If cs'c are really that much better then thats the road i'll take if not i'll go advanced. Csc OR ADANCED again is not an issue and i repeat i just want the best IQ possible ignoring dslr in a walkaround size.
I will still get plenty of use out of the x-s1 for time being at least as i enjoy useing it, its just not something to carry everywhere as you know its no midget.
 
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PJ S said:
Just a thought which hadn't occurred to me as I'm not sure where you are budget wise, but throwing it out here........http://shop.fujifilm.co.uk/fujifilm-x100-black-refurbished.html

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2011/...gital-camera-real-world-review-by-steve-huff/ - referenced against the Leica X1, and very favourably.

Hope I've not added to your quandary, but suspect I may've just.
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:lol: £2-400 tops not looking at very top end models, the prices of some i might as well go dslr
 
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Any more contributions? I think I've narrowed it down to either the x10 or the gx1 anyone got any reasons for one over the other
 
XF-1 as it pretty much is an X10 in a smaller package. I had an X10 and it never comfortably fitted in a pocket which meant I didn't take it with me whereas the XF-1 would be with me all the time.
 
The X20 is about to be announced (on Monday). I wouldn't make a decision until after then because you'll either prefer it, ot the price of the X10 will drop.

Personally I much prefer the files from the X10 to a Panny G3, but it's personal taste.
 
Reasons i personally would discount the XF1,

No hotshoe

No evf or ovf option ( maybe not so important to some but i just don't like composing a shot at arms length and seeing everything else outside the frame at the same time, getting your eye to a viewfinder just focuses your attention, pardon the pun lol)

No quick access to exposure comp dial etc

Regardless of how good the iq, this puts it firmly in the run of the mill p&s category for me simply because theres just too much messing about in menus to make the most commonly used functions-changes. Just too much reliance on menus nowadays. Touchscreens are becoming more common place now so that may improve the situation in the future but theres just something reassuring about a clicky dial. Lol

So this puts the x10 streets ahead IMPO of course.
 
Thank you guys there's one other thing that i would like to have that i've failed to mention and thats at least 5fps and excellent macro and checking all features the x10 seems?? to be the only one that has both, am i missing any others?
 
has anyone got this? the reviews i've read etc it seems to up and better with most of the advanced compacts inc the x10
 
ok i guess there's no other suggestions i think i'll keep my x-s1 for the zoom pics and go for the x10 for my walkaround when the prices drop further, i ve just bought the e-pl3 for a really good price so will try that out but have to decide if i want to be bothered with lens changing.
When i decided to get more in photography i have to admit i didn't realise how hard and complicated it was going to be but i will get there in the end.
 
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It is only as hard or complicated as you make it and that is not helped by the vast amount of choices and different options which leads to way too much over analysing.

Make a quick choice, buy camera and use it and then make sure you don't ever look in any magazines or forums at other models that you could have bought.
 
ernesto said:
It is only as hard or complicated as you make it and that is not helped by the vast amount of choices and different options which leads to way too much over analysing.

Make a quick choice, buy camera and use it and then make sure you don't ever look in any magazines or forums at other models that you could have bought.
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yes your right too much info is too mind bogling :lol:
 
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