Annoying wedding photos

JPS

JPS

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Some of you may remember that the other week I took photos at my first wedding as the 'tog', I took way too many but I had a list of photos to work off that the B&G wanted. As long as this list of 38 shots was 'in the can' the rest could be random people/reportage style shots.

So I have the final set of photos, down from over 600 to 145 - all the 38 'must haves' and the rest are the random shots. The Bride liked my results and all £££s have been paid up. Then I get a call today saying that they aren't happy becasue there isn't a shot of 'so and so' or the other 'so and so', if you get my drift. I have reminded them that I took the 38 must have shots and the rest was left to me to get. I have provided a comprehensive selection of other shots and can't really help it if Aunt Enid wasn't in any of the shots. Things may be getting a bit prickly as they are saying that I should have shown them all the 600 odd shots I took incase one had 'so and so' in the background.

I said that it doesn't work like that and I have shown them the best of the bunch and the rest are not to standard - blurred, duplicate shots etc etc.

Who is right on this, me or should I have shown them all the shots I took - blurred ones et al?
 
I think you are. I"m guessing though that this isn't coming from them. They were probably thrilled then went off and showed Mom and she said but where's aunt so and so, you really should have got her blah blah blah.... Not sure what you can do to make them happy though. HOpe someone else is of more help.
 
Well, as already said - it comes down to what the original agreement was. Do you have the shots they're complaining about missing? If you do then you should be able to come to some arrangement.

I have to say that the good old formal groups should have eliminated this problem and at least the missing persons should have been on the group shot. ;)
 
Its a weird complaint. They want to see all of the shots just in case so and so was "in the background". Its balls if you ask me - they're changing the rules after the game has finished. I cannot see that you're contractually obliged to show them anything more than you have done.
 
It's a very common complaint, actually. The B&G and their families really believe that the photog has the ability and responsibility to capture every single person and every single "moment" at their wedding. Reality disagrees. There will ALWAYS be something or someone you could have photographed or something you could have done differently.

The bottom line is, what does the SIGNED agreement say? Weddings are too important to operate via verbal agreement. You need to be very specific about what you will and won't do IN WRITING, signed by the B&G (and consider also getting the contract signed by whoever is paying you if it isn't the B&G. Be sure they understand what they're signing.

Without a signed agreement, you have nothing to back you up, and you'll be much more likely to wind up in situations like this.

- CJ
 
All I can say is, in agreement with CT really - we insist on a preferred shooting list of "must have" shots. We only do this to provide what the B & G expect. It's constricting inasmuch as it's kinda scripted but we only do this for the formal groups. The rest is very much down to us.

The only time we've had a problem was at a recent wedding a few of the major players had gone walk about ( a matter of miles ;) )... the bride's immortal words were, "stuff the list"! It was stuffed..... well and truly!

It is a bit restricting but it covers nasty eventualities like this.

How do you cover this eventuality, CJ, when you've previously stated (in another thread) you follow the B & G, taking those shots you perceive as important because the B & G are relating to those people more?
 
I would point out that THEY supplied the list of shots required, YOU have provided them and that the responibilty in this case, is there's entirely.

I would also agree to providing them with as many more shots as I have up to printable standards and letting them look for anyone EXTRA to the list. I would imagine that a fair few of the shots you culled could be used if needed, one might just strike lucky.

I've had a similar porblem this week. A shoot I did for a custom joiners of some very fancy kitchens 6 weeks ago has just reared almost exactly the same problem. The woman who looks after all the marketing came on the shoot and art directed. Now the big boss has finally seen the shots and doesn't like them. Now, I'm well within my rights to tell him to take a leap. That the shots were set up with his representative, she reviewed them all on the lap top and has confirmed she's happy with the finished images on disk. If he didn't communicate his wishes to her before the shoot, that's hardy my fault.

However, photography is a business built on reputation and I can't afford to have an unhappy client out there saying they don't use me anymore because they didn't get the shots they wanted. It's worth putting in some time and effort to keep them happy and in my case more than weddings, keep them spending. :D
 
This was a discussion point for a wedding I've got booked for next year. The B&G want informal coverage for the reception which is an outdoor event and the ceremony/formals are almost an afterthought. Right from the start they made it clear they'd like to see ALL the shots because there might be some OOF, etc. that will be special memories for them. The terms include a viewing of all shots pre-post work but clearly states there is no guarantee that any particular moment or person will be photographed outside of the agreed shooting list.
 
Whilst we're at it does anyone have a draft contract they could share thats sort of generic that could be made more specific by deleting/adding things?
Just wondering thats all, I'd have a go but I'm not too great making something up like that other than
"the photographer cannot be expected and will not be expected to capture every event or guest that may be present, nevertheless the photographer will attempt to do so as best as humanly possible, where the bride or groom have arranged prior to the event formal shots of individuals will take place: [then put in a list of 'formal shots']"

the wording tends to be rather specific just in case there's a situation just like this - and if its signed by both parties involved then that's that, whip it out and end of arguement regardless of who's right or wrong. if it's set out at the start there's no more to be said, what's done is done...

in this case I'd say you've done your job and leave it at that. I think its odd for them to say they love them initially and then come back later to say 'hang on where's so and so...?' just seems odd
 
How do you cover this eventuality, CJ, when you've previously stated (in another thread) you follow the B & G, taking those shots you perceive as important because the B & G are relating to those people more?
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It's quite simple. The contract states that I am not bound in any way to cover photos not specifically requested in writing. It also states that I am contracted to cover the event according to my artistic discretion. If the B&G have issues with signing to that wording, we will discuss it and revise the wording to the satisfaction of both parties.

I have never, to date, actually had a client request specific images in writing. That is quite flattering, actually, because of the amount of trust required. You can bet that I won't violate that trust by missing something I feel they will consider very important.

- CJ
 
This post presents a common problem and demonstrates the difficulties of selling art as opposed to widgets. If you buy a widget and it doesn't work / fit then there's a pretty obvious solution - send it back and get a refund.

Anybody could go and take photos of a wedding. I could, you could, we all could. Would they be any good? Well, that's a whole different issue. Legally speaking (assuming you're being paid), there will be an implied term into any contract that the goods (photos) will be of satisfactory quality and that your services will have been delivered with reasonable care and skill.

So that's the law. Fine. But how does it relate to taking photos?

Its down to the contract. So, if the contract says: take photos of Miss X and Mr B, then you're contractually bound to do that. If it doesn't then ... obvious answer

There is no issue legally between an oral contract and a written one. They are both equally binding. The difference is a matter of evidence - can you prove your terms? That's for the judge to decide.

If you've taken the required by contract pics and then some more, then you're on solid ground.

The question then becomes one of commercial judgment. Are you prepared to take them on? And risk a reputation as a good photographer, but capable of being stroppy; or someone who stands up for his rights.

Only you can decide
 
shiato storm said:
Whilst we're at it does anyone have a draft contract they could share thats sort of generic that could be made more specific by deleting/adding things?
Just wondering thats all, I'd have a go but I'm not too great making something up like that other than
"the photographer cannot be expected and will not be expected to capture every event or guest that may be present, nevertheless the photographer will attempt to do so as best as humanly possible, where the bride or groom have arranged prior to the event formal shots of individuals will take place: [then put in a list of 'formal shots']"

the wording tends to be rather specific just in case there's a situation just like this - and if its signed by both parties involved then that's that, whip it out and end of arguement regardless of who's right or wrong. if it's set out at the start there's no more to be said, what's done is done...

in this case I'd say you've done your job and leave it at that. I think its odd for them to say they love them initially and then come back later to say 'hang on where's so and so...?' just seems odd
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From a law student's POV, for your information and benifit, never use words such as best, use reasonable.

So saying things such as "nevertheless the photographer will attempt to do so as best as humanly possible" is TERRIBLE for you when it comes to court. Since they can argue you didn't do everything you could, ie - hire 100's of assistants to follow all the guests, which is humanity possible, but would you do it? Hell no.

"The photographer will do what is reasonable giving the situation permitting." would be a better boiler plate clause.
 
Ah well. I can see us tightening up our contract ..... :(

How can we be spared from becoming the litigious society that is rapidly spreading across from t'other side of The Pond?

Weren't like this is me Grandad's day .... thank goodness! :)
 
I wouldn't worry too much about it because of this sentence:

JPS said:
The Bride liked my results and all £££s have been paid up.
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;)

Nothing you can do about it now. Can only appologies and learn for future weddings.
 
Yeah, unless you want to 'photoshop' the missing people into the background!!
 
Well I've had a meeting today with the bride, the groom is staying rather quiet on this matter... Anyway, she has agreed that I have taken all the photos that were initially requested and have supplied plenty of 'informal' shots as were also asked for. I have not intention of trawling through all the 'deleted' files to see if so and so may possibly be in one of them and this has also been agreed to by the bride.

The church service was held at a small church hall in the middle of a residentail estate. I took all precautions to make sure that any lamposts, telegraph poles etc were not 'sticking' out of anyones head etc etc, even cloning a few out that I missed on the day. Now though she wants to know why I didn't take the whole background out - the houses and cars that are visible in the distance, even though they are blurred by me using a wide aperture at the time :shrug: I have explained that to do that wouldn't reflect the events of the day and that I was there to take photos of the wedding and not to take shots that I would then spend hours replacing backgrounds with 'sunny day shots'.....It just gets worse. Not an ideal situation for my first wedding photography outing to be honest. :bang:

I am thinking that I am going to have to include more in my contracts with any further B&Gs that may hire me in the future to ALL possible eventualities.

I have told this bride that if she wants me to take the backgrounds out of all the photos from the church, then an extra charge will be requested. To be honest I never really want to hear from this 'job' again...... :thumbsdown:
 
JPS said:
To be honest I never really want to hear from this 'job' again...... :thumbsdown:
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and to be honest i don't blame you,i've never heard of such bloody unreasonable request's, although i've no experience of wedding photography it all seem's over the top to me, maybe if she ever get's divorced she will come along and ask you could you please remove the groom out of the original file's and do some reprint's for her :lol:, i guess it's food for thought though as to contract wording, and if nothing else it will prepare you for the future, but i certainly hope it's a one off for you.
 
Raymond Lin said:
From a law student's POV, for your information and benifit, never use words such as best, use reasonable.

So saying things such as "nevertheless the photographer will attempt to do so as best as humanly possible" is TERRIBLE for you when it comes to court. Since they can argue you didn't do everything you could, ie - hire 100's of assistants to follow all the guests, which is humanity possible, but would you do it? Hell no.

"The photographer will do what is reasonable giving the situation permitting." would be a better boiler plate clause.
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ah, see. told you someone else could have worded it better!
asking you to significantly edit not just one but many images would take hours of your own time - you've done the right thing by saying 'not unless you pay me more good lady...'. perhaps some people just don't understand you can't do everything. if they wanted a different background they could have had their wedding somewhere other than a council - sorry - residential estate!! ffs!
 
Been a Wedding photographer for 16 years now, and i always tell the Bride and Groom that i will shoot all the traditional shots. It is up to them to bring other people to me that they want a picture with. That way if they dont get a picture of gran and grandad then it's there problem.
 
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