Angry White and Thick

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new2me said:
Kids have been hanging around shop doorways intimidating people for years, without hoodies.
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The difference is now, with their faces concealed, kids are a lot more likely to get away with unruly/illegal behaviour knowing they won't be caught.
 
boyfalldown said:
As you say, I haven't a clue. Unlike your question dodging I'm open about this. I do know the current approach is hardly working, would you say it was?
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What question remains unanswered? Attacking militarily and degrading financially and the ideology of ISIS is the only option. That's why 50+ nations are taking part in Combined Joint Task Force Operation Inherent Resolve. They'll only be halted by extreme force.
 
h14nha said:
The difference is now, with their faces concealed, kids are a lot more likely to get away with unruly/illegal behaviour knowing they won't be caught.
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I dont know what the figures are for that, but what with CCTV covering so many streets these days, I wonder if they do get away with so much compared to the days before.
 
Laudrup said:
What question remains unanswered? Attacking militarily and degrading financially and the ideology of ISIS is the only option. That's why 50+ nations are taking part in Combined Joint Task Force Operation Inherent Resolve. They'll only be halted by extreme force.
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We disagree. I suspect er fundamentally (for want of a better word) going round in circles is a little dull now. Leave it there eh?
 
Rapscallion said:
Ian, we are having quite a reasonable discussion in this thread, no need to for that.
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When you selectively highlight a statement and attribute it to me "they want Muslims dead" and leave out "no one in this thread has stated they want Muslims dead" there's every need for that. Thats not a reasonable response. Don't selectively quote me to insinuate I want Muslims dead.
 
Laudrup said:
What question remains unanswered? Attacking militarily and degrading financially and the ideology of ISIS is the only option. That's why 50+ nations are taking part in Combined Joint Task Force Operation Inherent Resolve. They'll only be halted by extreme force.
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You mean the type of force that has been used in Iraq and Afghanistan for over 10 years, at the expense of 1000s of soldiers and at a cost running into trillions?
And after all that we find ourselves in with the middle east in a far more precarious state than when we started? Do you really think that more of the same will somehow fix things despite being an obvious stimulant of the current situation?
 
h14nha said:
When you selectively highlight a statement and attribute it to me "they want Muslims dead" and leave out "no one in this thread has stated they want Muslims dead" there's every need for that. Thats not a reasonable response. Don't selectively quote me to insinuate I want Muslims dead.
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Do you want "them to go back to a muslim country."? That is what I meant to highlight.

EDIT
I can see why you were upset, didn't mean to highlight the first couple of words, just those I have bolded above.
 
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Rapscallion said:
Do you want "them to go back to a muslim country."? That is what I meant to highlight.

EDIT
I can see why you were upset, didn't mean to highlight the first couple of words, just those I have bolded above.
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Fair enough, no problem here :) As to the answer, I only want people here who want to be British. That point of view isn't exclusively for Muslims. I only stated Muslims as that is what the Angry White and Proud program was about. There is a Muslim guy who owns the shop on my estate. I shop in his establishment because I support local business even though as a small shop, he is more expensive than other shops I pass on my way home.......
20 years ago there were Muslims in Britain. Back then they walked down the street wearing jeans and jumpers and mixed with the locals. Now they wear clothing alienating themselves from us. All this talk of no go areas ( and I worked with a guy from Leeds 15 years back who told me there were no go areas up there for him as a white man, he had been attacked himself ) stems from this, even peaceful Muslims keep within their communities and don't mix.
 
In Spain, and my parents lived there for 6 years, even peaceful Brits kept to their own communities and didn't mix.

The change in clothing from a western style to a more strict Islamic style is a widespread, and very interesting, phenomenon.

Look at pictures of Cairo in the 1970s.
 
simon ess said:
In Spain, and my parents lived there for 6 years, even peaceful Brits kept to their own communities and didn't mix.

The change in clothing from a western style to a more strict Islamic style is a widespread, and very interesting, phenomenon.

Look at pictures of Cairo in the 1970s.
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Yes but as Brits living abroad, everyone should speak English didn't you know :P Thats a fair point, we as Brits are too lazy to learn another language. Hey, I'm Welsh and don't speak it :(
 
simon ess said:
In Spain, and my parents lived there for 6 years, even peaceful Brits kept to their own communities and didn't mix.

The change in clothing from a western style to a more strict Islamic style is a widespread, and very interesting, phenomenon.

Look at pictures of Cairo in the 1970s.
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It is interesting, and I wonder if the demonising of Islam has had an effect? I am curious as to the timescales of when this happened. Post 2001 I wonder. Or if before what was the catalyst?
 
Rapscallion said:
It is interesting, and I wonder if the demonising of Islam has had an effect? I am curious as to the timescales of when this happened. Post 2001 I wonder. Or if before what was the catalyst?
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It's something I've given a bit of thought to, but not much TBH.

As I've said before, I'm fairly sure, in myriad subtle ways, it all goes back to 1947 and events stemming from that.
 
Rapscallion said:
It is interesting, and I wonder if the demonising of Islam has had an effect? I am curious as to the timescales of when this happened. Post 2001 I wonder. Or if before what was the catalyst?
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I wish when the extremists carry out atrocities, these peaceful Muslims stand up and be counted. Instead, its left to the EDL and the BNP to march in protest. If Muslims aren't more vocal, then people are left to draw their own conclusions, whether they are wrong or right. If peaceful Muslims stay silent, will they stay silent if the extremists get a foothold. Otherwise the media will fill the gap with stories of Muslims spitting on coffins in Wooten Basset returning from Afghanistan etc
 
AndyB1976 said:
Afghanistan in the 60's and 70's looks very Western too.

Maybe the CIA funding of militant Islamic Mujahideen in the 70s/80s against the Soviets laid the foundations. Reap what you sow?
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Probably the most sensible and true post in this whole messed up thread.
 
Rapscallion said:
You mean the type of force that has been used in Iraq and Afghanistan for over 10 years, at the expense of 1000s of soldiers and at a cost running into trillions?
And after all that we find ourselves in with the middle east in a far more precarious state than when we started? Do you really think that more of the same will somehow fix things despite being an obvious stimulant of the current situation?
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It isn't at the level of that with boots on the ground from us in a conventional military operation. You've got the neighbours of ISIS who are very motivated to kill them and if we can support that then it is of benefit to us all. It makes some strange political bedfellows.
 
simon ess said:
It is my opinion that this view is quite wrong.

The U.S.A. totally, unswervingly believed this to be true in Vietnam.
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The only debate is about how to destroy ISIS, not if force should be used or not. The vote was 524 to 43 to back military action. You can't negotiate with terrorists who set up their own illegitimate state and butcher and enslave people.
 
Laudrup said:
The only debate is about how to destroy ISIS, not if force should be used or not. The vote was 524 to 43 to back military action. You can't negotiate with terrorists who set up their own illegitimate state and butcher and enslave people.
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Not that I support the creation of an Islamic state, but how do you think all the other states came into existence?

We have landed where we are internationally after along game of musical chairs. It's why my original post was 'how far do you go back to be declared British'? History show us there's no such thing as a fixed national border therefore no National identity. There's just 'what people believe right now'.

It's both a trivial and very serious point. Anglo Saxons IMHO are not British, they're foreign invaders, not peaceful immigrants trying to change from within. Actual bloody battlefield invaders. And the idea that they are somehow a 'race'? The clue is in the name, they were a mix of two races joined together to dominate Europe.

So all you Anglo Saxons pretending to want to protect your country; f*** off back to the European mainland from whence you came and leave my country alone! You look as ridiculous to me as the white American and Australian xenophobes trying to 'curb immigration', with no sense of irony, they're all obviously immigrants to the intelligent onlooker, trying to protect 'their country':ROFLMAO:
 
Byker28i said:
Well, I was I tower hamlets last weekend, didn't encounter any issues walking about taking photos.
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Nothing about Tower Hamlets. I just meant Brand in general. I don't like the man, champange socialist, just not my cup of teal dear fellow, for that reason I didn't watch the clips.
 
simon ess said:
In Spain, and my parents lived there for 6 years, even peaceful Brits kept to their own communities and didn't mix.

The change in clothing from a western style to a more strict Islamic style is a widespread, and very interesting, phenomenon.

Look at pictures of Cairo in the 1970s.
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Please don't tar us all with that brush. Many, many do. But not all :-)
 
Laudrup said:
What question remains unanswered? Attacking militarily and degrading financially and the ideology of ISIS is the only option. That's why 50+ nations are taking part in Combined Joint Task Force Operation Inherent Resolve. They'll only be halted by extreme force.
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So you are not interested in actually addressing the cause then? All of this mess is the result of decades of tragically flawed American foreign policy. Earlier on someone quoted the bible by saying "reap what you sow", and he was 100% correct. For years the Islamic world has watched the USA conduct an insidious war on Islam. In more recent times we have seen them destroy Iraq and fail where the Soviets did in Afghanistan, but at great loss of life. The terrorist attacks on Western cities and the rise of IS are the results of pathetic, ignorant fools fighting back. We (I speak collectively as the UK insists on riding on America's coat tails) have created this problem. The solution, as already pointed out, is not to go all Dick Cheney and bomb them all to hell. All that does is kill innocents and drive another wedge between them and the west.
 
h14nha said:
I wish when the extremists carry out atrocities, these peaceful Muslims stand up and be counted. Instead, its left to the EDL and the BNP to march in protest. If Muslims aren't more vocal, then people are left to draw their own conclusions, whether they are wrong or right. If peaceful Muslims stay silent, will they stay silent if the extremists get a foothold. Otherwise the media will fill the gap with stories of Muslims spitting on coffins in Wooten Basset returning from Afghanistan etc
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Here you go - moderate Muslims condenming the attacks in Paris:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/...ris-shooting-that-fox-news-cant-seem-to-find/

Does that make you feel better?

To be honest, I don't think I particularly understand the need for people to 'stand' up in these cases. Take for example this scenerio. You and I are photographers, and you take an image that is ethically and morally wrong - and it causes uproar. Would you expect the photography community to condemn the photograph? To let the public know we shouldn't all be tarred with the same brush?
 
PMK said:
Interesting which comments you chose to respond to and ignore on this thread.
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Really? Well it's my choice to make and sod all to do with you. I am however glad you find it interesting.
 
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h14nha said:
I wish when the extremists carry out atrocities, these peaceful Muslims stand up and be counted. Instead, its left to the EDL and the BNP to march in protest. If Muslims aren't more vocal, then people are left to draw their own conclusions, whether they are wrong or right. If peaceful Muslims stay silent, will they stay silent if the extremists get a foothold. Otherwise the media will fill the gap with stories of Muslims spitting on coffins in Wooten Basset returning from Afghanistan etc
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You mean like this:-

The Organization Of Islamic Cooperation: The Islamic State Has "Nothing To Do With Islam," Has Committed Crimes "That Cannot Be Tolerated." As the Vatican's internal news source reported, the Secretary General for the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, which represents 1.4 billion Muslims in 57 countries around the world, condemned the Islamic State's persecution of of Christians and other religious minorities in Iraq, saying the "forced deportation under the threat of execution" is a "crime that cannot be tolerated." According to the Vatican:

The Secretary General also distanced Islam from the actions of the militant group known as ISIS, saying they 'have nothing to do with Islam and its principles that call for justice, kindness, fairness, freedom of faith and coexistence.' [Vatican Radio, 7/25/14]

Al-Azhar: Islamic State Is Corrupt And "A Danger To Islam." Lebanese paper The Daily Star reported that Al-Azhar's Grand Mufti Shawqi Allam, Egypt's highest religious authority, denounced the Islamic State as a threat to Islam and said that the group both violates Sharia law and humanitarian law: "[They] give an opportunity for those who seek to harm us, to destroy us and interfere in our affairs with the [pretext of a] call to fight terrorism." [The Daily Star, 8/13/14]

Arab League: "Strongly Denounced" The "Crimes Against Humanity" Carried Out By The Islamic State.On August 11, Nabil al-Arabi, the Arab League Chief, denounced acts committed by the Islamic State in Iraq as "crimes against humanity," demanding that they be brought to justice. According to Al Arabiya News, he said in a statement that he "strongly denounced the crimes, killings, dispossession carried out by the terrorist (ISIS) against civilians and minorities in Iraq that have affected Christians in Mosul and Yazidis." [Al Arabiya News, 8/11/14]

Turkey's Top Cleric: Islamic State's Threats Are "Hugely Damaging," "Truly Awful." Turkey's highest ranking cleric, Mehmet Gormez, decried the Islamic State's declaration of a "caliphate" and argued that the statements were damaging to the Muslim community, according to Reuters:

"Such declarations have no legitimacy whatsoever," Mehmet Gormez, head of the Religious Affairs Directorate, the highest religious authority in Turkey, which, although a majority Muslim country, has been a secular state since the 1920s.

"Since the caliphate was abolished ... there have been movements that think they can pull together the Muslim world by re-establishing a caliphate, but they have nothing to do with reality, whether from a political or legal perspective."

Gormez said death threats against non-Muslims made by the group, formerly known as Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), were hugely damaging.

"The statement made against Christians is truly awful. Islamic scholars need to focus on this (because) an inability to peacefully sustain other faiths and cultures heralds the collapse of a civilization," he told Reuters in an interview. [Reuters, 7/22/14]

CAIR Repeatedly Condemned The Islamic State As "Un-Islamic And Morally Repugnant." In a July 7 statement, the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) called the terrorist group "un-Islamic and morally repugnant," noted that the Islamic State's "human rights abuses on the ground are well-documented," and called on other Muslim community leaders to speak out against the violence. CAIR reiterated the condemnation of the Islamic State as "both un-Islamic and morally repugnant" on August 11, and on August 21, CAIR once again condemned the group, calling the killing of American journalist James Foley "gruesome and barbaric":

We strongly condemn this gruesome and barbaric killing as a violation of Islamic beliefs and of universally-accepted international norms mandating the protection of prisoners and journalists during conflicts.

The Geneva Conventions, the Quran - Islam's revealed text - and the traditions (hadith) of the Prophet Muhammad all require that prisoners not be harmed in any way. There can be no excuse or justification for such criminal and bloodthirsty actions.

We also call on those holding Steven Sotloff and other prisoners to immediately release them unharmed so they may return to their loved ones. [Council on American-Islamic Relations, 7/7/14; Council on American-Islamic Relations, 8/11/14; Council on American-Islamic Relations, 8/20/14]

The Muslim Council Of Great Britain: "Violence Has No Place In Religion." The Muslim Council of Great Britain condemned the Islamic State's actions and expressed that they do not represent Sunni Muslims, according to The Independent. Shuja Shafi, a member of the council also said: "Violence has no place in religion, violence has no religion. It is prohibited for people to present themselves for destruction." [The Independent, 7/11/14]

The Islamic Society of North America: The Islamic State's Actions "Are To Be Denounced And Are In No Way Representative Of What Islam Actually Teaches. The Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) released a statement denouncing the Islamic State "for its attacks on Iraq's religious minorities and the destruction of their places of worship." ISNA President Imam Mohamed Magid said, "ISIS actions against religious minorities in Iraq violate the Quranic teaching, 'Let there be no compulsion in religion' (Surat al-Baqara 2:256)," adding, "Their actions are to be denounced and are in no way representative of what Islam actually teaches." [The Islamic Society of North America, 8/9/14]

100 Sunni And Shiite U.K. Imams: The Islamic State Is An "Illegitimate, Vicious Group." As the Huffington Post reported, 100 Sunni and Shiite Imams from the U.K. came together to produce a video denouncing the Islamic State, releasing a statement that they wanted to "come together to emphasise the importance of unity in the UK and to decree ISIS as an illegitimate, vicious group who do not represent Islam in any way."


[Huffington Post, 7/12/14; YouTube, 7/11/14]

Saudi Arabia's Highest Religious Authority: Terrorists Like The Islamic State Is The "Number One Enemy Of Islam." On August 19, Al Jazeera reported that Saudi Arabia's grand mufti, Abdulaziz al-Sheikh, the country's top religious authority, said that terrorism is anti-Islamic and said that groups like the Islamic State which practice violence are the "number one enemy of Islam":

Extremist and militant ideas and terrorism which spread decay on Earth, destroying human civilisation, are not in any way part of Islam, but are enemy number one of Islam, and Muslims are their first victims. [Al Jazeera, 8/19/14]

Muslim Public Affairs Council: Condemned The Islamic State And Called For "Stand Against Extremism." On August 20, the Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC) released a statement condemning "the barbaric execution of American Journalist James Foley by the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS)." MPAC urged "all people of conscience to take a stand against extremism" and offered condolences to Foley's family. MPAC also noted the importance of countering ISIS and other extremist groups by working "to empower the mainstream and relegate extremists to the irrelevance they deserve." [Muslim Public Affairs Council, 8/20/14]​
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Or this group of British Imams:-


Or This Speech by the egyptian President

Or this open letter by Muslim Scholars

Or this from the The Islamic Society of North America

Or if the above is still not enough, here's an even longer list.
 
Laudrup said:
You still didn't give any clue how to deal with ISIS or Al-Qaeda apart from creating a two state solution which wouldn't matter to them anyway. So how do you deal with them if not military action?
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ive said it several times in this thread and not really had any comment.. but force against these people is like trying to put out a fire with petrol.

just look at how well military campaigns have gone so far over the years. id say nothing has really changed to irradiate extremism.
 
AndyB1976 said:
Afghanistan in the 60's and 70's looks very Western too.
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Indeed. My father in law tells me what a great, liberal city Tehran was when he lived there prior to the 1953 coup. The anglo/american sponsored coup that is, all about Oil. The one that paved the way for the current, rather unpleasent regime.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
So you are not interested in actually addressing the cause then? All of this mess is the result of decades of tragically flawed American foreign policy. Earlier on someone quoted the bible by saying "reap what you sow", and he was 100% correct. For years the Islamic world has watched the USA conduct an insidious war on Islam. In more recent times we have seen them destroy Iraq and fail where the Soviets did in Afghanistan, but at great loss of life. The terrorist attacks on Western cities and the rise of IS are the results of pathetic, ignorant fools fighting back. We (I speak collectively as the UK insists on riding on America's coat tails) have created this problem. The solution, as already pointed out, is not to go all d*** Cheney and bomb them all to hell. All that does is kill innocents and drive another wedge between them and the west.
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Yup lets all blame the Americans opposed to the terrorist who do the actual killing of innocent people. Brilliant move.
 
dejongj said:
Yup lets all blame the Americans opposed to the terrorist who do the actual killing of innocent people. Brilliant move.
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Its easy to say that. But its a very complex situation. Why not try to understand it. If you don't it'll happen again ansd again.
 
Byker28i said:
Brick lane, one of my fav hangouts in london and the surrounding area is heavily muslim area. On a sunday the area is busy with people in sunday best going to the mosque in Whitechapel road and I've been invited in for coffee when chatting to people.

Apparently this is a no go area for whites.
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And there was me thinking that Bricklane has lost its old charm and is mainly a hipster area these day.

However leaving my Kensington hotel this morning I was greeted by three gorgeous women (judging by their eye makeup) in full burka. Is it just me who imagine what they wear underneath if anything?
 
Ricardodaforce said:
So you are not interested in actually addressing the cause then? All of this mess is the result of decades of tragically flawed American foreign policy. Earlier on someone quoted the bible by saying "reap what you sow", and he was 100% correct. For years the Islamic world has watched the USA conduct an insidious war on Islam. In more recent times we have seen them destroy Iraq and fail where the Soviets did in Afghanistan, but at great loss of life. The terrorist attacks on Western cities and the rise of IS are the results of pathetic, ignorant fools fighting back. We (I speak collectively as the UK insists on riding on America's coat tails) have created this problem. The solution, as already pointed out, is not to go all d*** Cheney and bomb them all to hell. All that does is kill innocents and drive another wedge between them and the west.
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So your solution is what? Go back in time and change foreign policy? How do you deal with a rapidly advancing ISIS force slaughtering, raping and pillaging across Syria and Iraq?
 
h14nha said:
Otherwise the media will fill the gap with stories of Muslims spitting on coffins in Wooten Basset returning from Afghanistan etc
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Ok That's my my neck of the woods, I live near there, my Son goes to Royal Wootton Bassett academy.

At no point did the Muslims show up, protest and spit on coffins. One group, Islam4UK and their spokesperson Anjem Choudary got themselves some publicity for a day by suggesting they would protest as the funeral procession went through Bassett. It never happened.
 
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