Angry White and Thick

[munch]

I have met people who believe the earth is flat. I have no reason to doubt them, and as you have never met them, you must all be wrong.

 

[Cobra]

and despite people living in these ares (including a mod) there saying these allegations are nonsense you and Steve continue. Misinformation such as this must be challenged.

Luton, I'm about 20 miles from there, (Marc a few miles less, ) used to feature heavily on / as my work areas,
admittedly, not for the last couple of years.
And I found that driving in most parts of Luton, at any given time of day,
that Muslims by dress style were more in evidence than westerners.
Obviously no one is claiming that each and every one is a terrorist,
but it just goes to prove for every personal experience,
statistic, or piece of factual evidence, there will always be a counter "claim"

 

[BRASH]

I have met people who believe the earth is flat. I have no reason to doubt them, and as you have never met them, you must all be wrong.

 

[Deleted member 49549]

Luton, I'm about 20 miles from there, (Marc a few miles less, ) used to feature heavily on / as my work areas,
admittedly, not for the last couple of years.
And I found that driving in most parts of Luton, at any given time of day,
that Muslims by dress style were more in evidence than westerners.
Obviously no one is claiming that each and every one is a terrorist,
but it just goes to prove for every personal experience,
statistic, or piece of factual evidence, there will always be a counter "claim"

The claim i am querying was:-

"there ARE areas 'unofficially' operating their form of Sharia law as well as 'no go' areas for non muslims.",

not that there are areas with a high muslim population which I think we can all agree on.

Brash has made this this bold claim, and when asked for evidence, has said my mate told me so....

We cannot let these incendiary statements go without querying them and asking for real evidence.

 

[BRASH]

The claim i am querying was:-

"there ARE areas 'unofficially' operating their form of Sharia law as well as 'no go' areas for non muslims.",

not that there are areas with a high muslim population which I think we can all agree on.

Brash has made this this bold claim, and when asked for evidence, has said my mate told me so....

We cannot let these incendiary statements go without querying them and asking for real evidence.

Not a bold claim at all, merely a recount of things I was told by people who I trust and believe. As repeatedly said you'd need to speak to them.

There's hundreds/thousands of claims, opinions, facts, truths, lies, rumours, gossip, speculation, assumptions etc etc on this forum and throughout the internet in general. Some are accepted without evidence, some rejected with loads of evidence, nature of the beast I suppose. Somebody believes something, somebody else doesn't, hey ho, that's life and human nature.

 

[Laudrup]

I could swear no-one outside IS, including the rest of Islam recognise al-Baghdadi as anything at all?

Well the people coming from all over the world to pledge allegiance to him and die for him obviously do. The bullets and bombs will still kill people no matter if you believe his claim or not.

 

[boyfalldown]

Well the people coming from all over the world to pledge allegiance to him and die for him obviously do. The bullets and bombs will still kill people no matter if you believe his claim or not.

It doesn't matter if I believe him or not. What Islamic authority has named him Caliph?

 

[Laudrup]

Is doesn't matter if I believe him or not. What Islamic authority has named him Caliph?

ISIS aren't asking for the consensus of Muslim scholars, they are telling. ISIS murdered 13 Sunni Muslim clerics in Mosul when they didn't pledge allegiance to Caliph Ibrahim. It sees itself as legitimate and that is all that matters and that is why it needs stopped.

 

[boyfalldown]

ISIS aren't asking for the consensus of Muslim scholars, they are telling. ISIS murdered 13 Sunni Muslim clerics in Mosul when they didn't pledge allegiance to Caliph Ibrahim. It sees itself as legitimate and that is all that matters and that is why it needs stopped.

Quite probably. But how does that make him caliph? I'll make easy for you despite what IS and you think it doesnt

 

[Cobra]

I have met people who believe the earth is flat. I have no reason to doubt them, and as you have never met them, you must all be wrong.

Although I'm sure you posted that with your tongue firmly in your cheek,
it raises a valid point, as I have never sailed around the world, pole to pole and up the other side,
therefore I have no personal proof that its round or flat.
I just have to take into account the so called facts presented to me by the media, scholars, internet, and hear-say etc
And make my own mind up.

 

[Nod]

I've seen photos of the Earth from space and cameras can't lie! Besides, I've seen things rising from the horizon rather than just getting bigger. I do believe my own eyes.

 

[Laudrup]

Quite probably. But how does that make him caliph? I'll make easy for you despite what IS and you think it doesnt

The hadith is usually known as the scholars are the heirs of the prophets, but ISIS believe after the prophets come the mujahideen. He doesn't see the need to adhere to the classical view of what makes a caliph.

Last September ISIS released an audio recording of spokesman Abu Muhammad al-Adnani saying:

“If you can kill a disbelieving American or European — especially the spiteful and filthy French — or an Australian, or a Canadian, or any other disbeliever from the disbelievers waging war, including the citizens of the countries that entered into a coalition against the Islamic State … kill him in any manner or way however it may be,”

I don't think the people he is calling on to kill you really care if you recognise their caliph or not, the fact is they do recognise him and that makes them dangerous.

 

[Cobra]

and cameras can't lie!

You honestly believe that?

I've seen things rising from the horizon rather than just getting bigger. I do believe my own eyes.

Theres nothing to say that the sun wouldn't follow an elliptical orbit
over a "flat plain"

Besides, you have never been in space and seen the earth.
So you have made your mind up on the facts presented to you.
That's exactly my point.

 

[boyfalldown]

The hadith is usually known as the scholars are the heirs of the prophets, but ISIS believe after the prophets come the mujahideen. He doesn't see the need to adhere to the classical view of what makes a caliph.

Last September ISIS released an audio recording of spokesman Abu Muhammad al-Adnani saying:



I don't think the people he is calling on to kill you really care if you recognise their caliph or not, the fact is they do recognise him and that makes them dangerous.

That may well be the case. But the point is you named him as a Caliph in this thread. You were wrong. He isn't and never has been recognised by anyone but IS. By perpetuating the myth he is (that he's started) you give some sort of legitamacy where there is none.

As an aside from that, as you evidently agree with him (its hard to see why you've insisted has has a lgitimate view on this) does that mean you realise that IS doesn't really represent Islam and is an extremist fringe?

 

[BRASH]

You honestly believe that?


Theres nothing to say that the sun wouldn't follow an elliptical orbit
over a "flat plain"

Besides, you have never been in space and seen the earth.
So you have made your mind up on the facts presented to you.
That's exactly my point.

Self moderate and stop speaking pish

 

[Nod]

You honestly believe that?


Theres nothing to say that the sun wouldn't follow an elliptical orbit
over a "flat plain"

Besides, you have never been in space and seen the earth.
So you have made your mind up on the facts presented to you.
That's exactly my point.

I believe that cameras can't lie - it's the photographers or processors who can corrupt the results to misrepresent the truth that the camera captures. (Besides, cameras can't speak or write so can't lie! )

I've seen ships appear over the horizon as well as cliffs from boats. I've also seen the shadow of the Earth on the moon and it's round.

 

[Cobra]

Self moderate and stop speaking pish

I think you missed the point young man

I've also seen the shadow of the Earth on the moon and it's round.

Would a dinner plate not cast a round shadow on a flat wall?

 

[Laudrup]

That may well be the case. But the point is you named him as a Caliph in this thread. You were wrong. He isn't and never has been recognised by anyone but IS. By perpetuating the myth he is (that he's started) you give some sort of legitamacy where there is none.

As an aside from that, as you evidently agree with him (its hard to see why you've insisted has has a lgitimate view on this) does that mean you realise that IS doesn't really represent Islam and is an extremist fringe?

So I suppose by calling them IS you are legitimizing them? I mean really you should call them Daesh if you don't agree with them? Using your logic of course.

 

[boyfalldown]

So I suppose by calling them IS you are legitimizing them? I mean really you should call them Daesh if you don't agree with them? Using your logic of course.

You do dodge questions don't you?

 

[simon ess]

Everything is negotiable, always.

In the long view, every action is a move towards a negotiating position.

The issue is the extent to which either, both or all parties are prepared to shift from their established position.

 

[Laudrup]

You do dodge questions don't you?

Yeah IS would be an extremist fringe, not that it really needs pointing out even to them.

 

[viv1969]

I've seen photos of the Earth from space and cameras can't lie! .

Oh but they can.

 

[munch]

My tongue was so firmly in my cheek I looked like a hamster. Mind you some say I do in any case.

 

[Nod]

I think you missed the point young man

Would a dinner plate not cast a round shadow on a flat wall?

Not if it was edgeways onto the light source.

 

[dejongj]

BBC or TP?

TP naturally. BBC wouldn't allow the truth and make you wear goat hair socks.

 

[dejongj]

Luton, I'm about 20 miles from there, (Marc a few miles less, ) used to feature heavily on / as my work areas,
admittedly, not for the last couple of years.
And I found that driving in most parts of Luton, at any given time of day,
that Muslims by dress style were more in evidence than westerners.
Obviously no one is claiming that each and every one is a terrorist,
but it just goes to prove for every personal experience,
statistic, or piece of factual evidence, there will always be a counter "claim"

+1 and I live considerably closer albeit admittedly in not quite a typical muslim area.

 

[dejongj]

Not a bold claim at all, merely a recount of things I was told by people who I trust and believe. As repeatedly said you'd need to speak to them.

There's hundreds/thousands of claims, opinions, facts, truths, lies, rumours, gossip, speculation, assumptions etc etc on this forum and throughout the internet in general. Some are accepted without evidence, some rejected with loads of evidence, nature of the beast I suppose. Somebody believes something, somebody else doesn't, hey ho, that's life and human nature.

Actually if they didn't report their experiences to either formal authorities or press I am rather inclined to believe that it is more personal perception opposed to actuallity. I just don't get it that people who have experience what you portrait they experienced don't report it. It doesn't make any sense and won't resolve anything.

 

[PMK]

Not a bold claim at all, merely a recount of things I was told by people who I trust and believe. As repeatedly said you'd need to speak to them.

There's hundreds/thousands of claims, opinions, facts, truths, lies, rumours, gossip, speculation, assumptions etc etc on this forum and throughout the internet in general. Some are accepted without evidence, some rejected with loads of evidence, nature of the beast I suppose. Somebody believes something, somebody else doesn't, hey ho, that's life and human nature.

Interesting that you friends stuck around long enough to discover what laws they were living under.

Is it just Muslim communities you are fearful of? Or Jewish too? Polish? Jamaican? When people move countries, it's commonplace for them to find a place that suits them, that caters for their needs - be that dietry, religion, hobbies, schools etc. As I mentioned before - Stamford Hill is an established Jewish community in the North London and has been for years. Jewish schools, synagogues, kosher supermarkets. I certainly know that if I decided to leave the UK and live abroad, I might find a community of like-minded Brits who like to watch the football, eat fish and chips, speak the same language. And these ex-pat communities exist, in Spain, France, Australia.

I see no problem with either case.

 

[h14nha]

As for the helmet situation, wear an open facer. I do!!

Strange this has come up today. This afternoon I was chatting to a biker in work. He was telling me about the time he was queuing to pay for his petrol in Tesco. He was behind a muslim woman in full head hijab. She paid and left and he replaced her at the counter only to be asked by the staff to remove his 'open faced helmet' He pointed out that they just served someone without seeing their face, only to be told it's 'policy' An elderly gent behind him growled "what's the matter with this country, I didn't fight a war for this" Others also in the queue voiced opposition to his treatment but staff refused to budge. He, being a lovely softly spoken guy paid and left, never to return to Tesco.

I have been talking historically, you can't ignore western christianity when talking about violence and religion with attempted or forced conversions. Charlemagne and masacres, Spanish inquisition, Goa, North american indians, many many examples.

I suppose you agreed with Blair apologising to Africa for Britain's involvement in slavery. The crazy thing is, today there is still a slavery problem in Britain today but, the perpetrators are the foreigners who have settled here and brought their own kind here to be prostituted or press ganged into work. Will Africa apologise for its ancient tribes cannibalising western explorers ? Shall we demand an apology from the Scandinavians for the Viking onslaughts ? We are the victims in history as well as the aggressors

"I'd like to kill you because you won't convert"

"I want to kill you because you expect me to convert"

who is worse? Both as extreme as the other.

The second line is a reaction to the first. Without the first line, there is no second line. Thats the difference. No one in this thread has stated they want Muslims dead, they just want them to go back to a muslim country. The fanatics on the other hand, they wish us all death...........

 

[Cobra]

Not if it was edgeways onto the light source.

Its all relative, who says a flat earth would be horizontal

 

[boyfalldown]

The second line is a reaction to the first. Without the first line, there is no second line. Thats the difference. No one in this thread has stated they want Muslims dead, they just want them to go back to a muslim country. The fanatics on the other hand, they wish us all death...........

Destroyed was the word used. That sounds fairly dead to me . It's the inability to change your mind that makes an extremist.

 

[Steve Smith]

Would a dinner plate not cast a round shadow on a flat wall?

It depends on its angle to the wall.


Steve.

 

[viv1969]

Its all relative, who says a flat earth would be horizontal

Ooooooh I like that possibility!

 

[Laudrup]

Destroyed was the word used. That sounds fairly dead to me . It's the inability to change your mind that makes an extremist.

You still didn't give any clue how to deal with ISIS or Al-Qaeda apart from creating a two state solution which wouldn't matter to them anyway. So how do you deal with them if not military action?

 

[boyfalldown]

You still didn't give any clue how to deal with ISIS or Al-Qaeda apart from creating a two state solution which wouldn't matter to them anyway. So how do you deal with them if not military action?

As you say, I haven't a clue. Unlike your question dodging I'm open about this. I do know the current approach is hardly working, would you say it was?

And while we are throwing the not knowing, atleast when I don't know I say, rather then simply making it up and then throwing a random comment smokescreen to try and hide that

 

[h14nha]

There are a number of reasons why people need to be identified in public not least for those of national security, criminal offenders, intelligence, ASBO type stuff, traffic issues (and offences). I'd assume this is why CCTV is so common these days. Perhaps some of the folk on here employed in such areas (police, security, cctv operators etc etc) may be able to expand on this, I dunno.

I was working in a CCTV room this morning ( not as an employee ). They are a powerful tool in fighting crime. They have 40/50 plus screens to monitor town centres and roads. They can follow suspicious characters ( of any faith/colour ) without them ever knowing they were being watched, then inform the Police.
As a side note, I hate hoodie wearing teenagers as much as I hate the Burka............

 

[Steve Smith]

As a side note, I hate hoodie wearing teenagers as much as I hate the Burka............

What about hoodie wearing 50 year olds?


Steve.

 

[Deleted member 49549]

Strange this has come up today. This afternoon I was chatting to a biker in work. He was telling me about the time he was queuing to pay for his petrol in Tesco. He was behind a muslim woman in full head hijab. She paid and left and he replaced her at the counter only to be asked by the staff to remove his 'open faced helmet' He pointed out that they just served someone without seeing their face, only to be told it's 'policy' An elderly gent behind him growled "what's the matter with this country, I didn't fight a war for this" Others also in the queue voiced opposition to his treatment but staff refused to budge. He, being a lovely softly spoken guy paid and left, never to return to Tesco.


I suppose you agreed with Blair apologising to Africa for Britain's involvement in slavery. The crazy thing is, today there is still a slavery problem in Britain today but, the perpetrators are the foreigners who have settled here and brought their own kind here to be prostituted or press ganged into work. Will Africa apologise for its ancient tribes cannibalising western explorers ? Shall we demand an apology from the Scandinavians for the Viking onslaughts ? We are the victims in history as well as the aggressors



The second line is a reaction to the first. Without the first line, there is no second line. Thats the difference. No one in this thread has stated they want Muslims dead, they just want them to go back to a muslim country. The fanatics on the other hand, they wish us all death...........

Is this what you want?

 

[h14nha]

What about hoodie wearing 50 year olds?


Steve.

Well,
I personally have never seen a 50 year old with a hoodie on, with their jacket collar pulled up hiding no, disguising their face. They are no better than Burka wearing women and I wish it was the police's duty to take a scissors to them..........
My friend had a chip shop. The hoodie wearing kids took over his doorstep and frightened the pensioners from their fish suppers. They felt too intimidated by the kids to go to the shop after dark. ( thats what his customers told him ).

 

[new2me]

The hoodie wearing kids took over his doorstep and frightened the pensioners from their fish suppers. They felt too intimidated by the kids to go to the shop after dark. ( thats what his customers told him ).

Kids have been hanging around shop doorways intimidating people for years, without hoodies.