Angry White and Thick

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Rapscallion said:
I have no doubt the documentary was factual, but you are possibly leading yourself down a dark alley by ignoring real, pure statistics in informing yourself. Embrace the breadth of information available to you to inform yourself and you will have a much more accurate view of the world.

The one key point I have picked up on this thread, there are far to many people who will lap up any 'fact' from their mates down the pub that mirrors their own view of the world, no matter how ridiculous it may be. I try and look at sources that are both supportive and contrary to my beliefs and outlook in a critical manner and also try to be very aware of a natural human tendency to be selective in the the facts I choose to accept.
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If you had been in Rotherham in early to mid 2000s and you had heard from your mates down the pub about child sexual exploitation by Pakistani gangs and you looked at data or asked the social work or police they would say they don't know what you're talking about or you'd be accused of racism.

The rhetoric from politicians and their sometimes massaged stats can be very different to people's real lives.
 
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Byker28i said:
And the Christians have never done that? I do believe we had a pretty serious attempt over the years, especially in Africa. Jehovas witnesses at your door?
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What Christian terrorism is equal to the Islamic fundamentalist threat that we are facing?
 
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Laudrup said:
If you had been in Rotherham in early to mid 2000s and you had heard from your mates down the pub about child sexual exploitation by Pakistani gangs and you looked at data or asked the social work or police they would say they don't know what you're talking about or you'd be accused of racism.

The rhetoric from politicians and their sometimes massaged stats can be very different to people's real lives.
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Which is why I say:-

Embrace the breadth of information available to you to inform yourself
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And are you really saying that the police should use the conversations you had with your mates down the pub as a source of intelligence? If that is the case the police will be spending all their time on wild goose chases....
 
BRASH said:
There are a number of reasons why people need to be identified in public not least for those of national security, criminal offenders, intelligence, ASBO type stuff, traffic issues (and offences). I'd assume this is why CCTV is so common these days. Perhaps some of the folk on here employed in such areas (police, security, cctv operators etc etc) may be able to expand on this, I dunno.
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Perhaps, but there is no law requiring that your face is on view in public.


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
Perhaps, but there is no law requiring that your face is on view in public.


Steve.
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Beautifully backtracked;). Never said it was law, simply there are needs at times!!
 
As for the helmet situation, wear an open facer. I do!!:)
 
ST4 said:
None have violently tried to convert me, nor have any flown into tall buildings, shot up a news paper etc....
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Laudrup said:
What Christian terrorism is equal to the Islamic fundamentalist threat that we are facing?
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I have been talking historically, you can't ignore western christianity when talking about violence and religion with attempted or forced conversions. Charlemagne and masacres, Spanish inquisition, Goa, North american indians, many many examples.
 
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Laudrup said:
If you had been in Rotherham in early to mid 2000s and you had heard from your mates down the pub about child sexual exploitation by Pakistani gangs and you looked at data or asked the social work or police they would say they don't know what you're talking about or you'd be accused of racism.

The rhetoric from politicians and their sometimes massaged stats can be very different to people's real lives.
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I do that that is a fair point. Hence a big enquiry is going on to discover what I earth happened there. South Yorkshire police is really in the foo dah with this, and the other events.

Hence it is so important to bring these things in the open and discuss them.
 
Rapscallion said:
The one key point I have picked up on this thread, there are far to many people who will lap up any 'fact' from their mates down the pub that mirrors their own view of the world, no matter how ridiculous it may be.
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I agree, which is why I made such ridiculous posts. I'm not following anyone here down their dark alleys, I assure you :thumbs:
 
Steve Smith said:
Had you already taken the fuel? If so, I would just place the money on the counter and walk out.
Steve.
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Long story - short version, I asked for the manager, saying I was offering to pay but there were refusing to serve me, as such I was free to leave. They threaten to call the police, but as I pointed out I was offering to pay. Stalemate. They took my money, I left returned to fill the car, put huge sombrero on head, said there was no notice about large hats. Not been back since.
 
Byker28i said:
I have been talking historically, you can't ignore western christianity when talking about violence and religion with attempted or forced conversions. Charlemagne and masacres, Spanish inquisition, Goa, North american indians, many many examples.
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We also brougt civilisation with it. And none of these are in recent times.
 
Byker28i said:
Long story - short version, I asked for the manager, saying I was offering to pay but there were refusing to serve me, as such I was free to leave. They threaten to call the police, but as I pointed out I was offering to pay. Stalemate. They took my money, I left returned to fill the car, put huge sombrero on head, said there was no notice about large hats. Not been back since.
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Excellent. I think if this happened to me, I would put in the fuel (say exactly £10) then go in and place £10 on the counter and leave. No crime comitted.
Sombrero is a great idea too!

Steve.
 
Byker28i said:
I have been talking historically, you can't ignore western christianity when talking about violence and religion with attempted or forced conversions. Charlemagne and masacres, Spanish inquisition, Goa, North american indians, many many examples.
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These are all long in the past though. We're faced with Islamic fundamentalism that is a growing threat to our safety right now.
 
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Posted here without comment:

The short speech below is from Winston Churchill and was delivered by him in 1899 when he was a young soldier and journalist:

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.
No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome."
Sir Winston Churchill; (Source: The River War, first edition, Vol II, pages 248-250 London)."
 
Churchill at his most buffoonish.

The west would not have had the science it did were it not for the Muslim world, given that early Christians tended to burn "pagan" books.

Further, he was a complex character who was later seen to favour Islam to the point where his family were quite concerned for him.

Always nice to find a good Churchill quote though.
 
Laudrup said:
These are all long in the past though. We're faced with Islamic fundamentalism that is a growing threat to our safety right now.
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Well, there was a trend to point out that god fearing white christian people are being threatened by foreigners with radical views, wanting to take over out lands with force. I was trying to point out that effectively, looking through history, we started it (in very best playground reference).
 
Churchill also said: A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. ;)
 
Laudrup said:
These are all long in the past though. We're faced with Islamic fundamentalism that is a growing threat to our safety right now.
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When I was growing up and serving, the Irish was a threat to my security, especially when they blew up a bomb 60 yards from me in Oxford street, or decided to plant a bomb in Suvla barrack block .

Then it was Iran that was a threat, then Al Quaeda, now islamist fundamentalists.

We live in a world of threats & conflicts, where anyone with a weapon thinks they are right. We went into Iran on the lie of 45 minutes away from destruction. Those poor innocent souls on the plane over ukraine fell fould of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and a trigger happy missile commander.

End of the day, it isn't a race, a religion, as a whole thats the threat. As always it's a few fanatics with blinkered views dragging others into their fight.

The trick is not to fight them with your own radical fanatical view. Two wrongs don't make a right. Treat them as the criminals they are, and we have laws to deal with that, plus, thanks to the IRA, quite a lot of experience with dealing with these on home soil.
 
simon ess said:
Churchill at his most buffoonish.

The west would not have had the science it did were it not for the Muslim world, given that early Christians tended to burn "pagan" books.

Further, he was a complex character who was later seen to favour Islam to the point where his family were quite concerned for him.

Always nice to find a good Churchill quote though.
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I may even be tempted to say those views are downright bigoted (despite coming from a man that led our country through our darkest hours).

Some other Churchill quotes:-
“starvation of anyhow underfed Bengalis is less serious than that of sturdy Greeks”
“I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes…[It] would spread a lively terror.”,
on Ghandi - "
 
ST4 said:
None have violently tried to convert me, nor have any flown into tall buildings, shot up a news paper etc....
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And who HAS tried to violently covert you?
 
ST4 said:
Churchill and Thatcher were the two best PM's we've had. Churchill was on the money, if only he could see how true his words have borne out.
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If can ignore the establishment of the 2 most problematic countries (Iraq and Israel) and all the resulting problems that stems from their poorly conceived conception, they yes, well done Mr Churchill and all the headaches those actions caused.....
 
Rapscallion said:
If can ignore the establishment of the 2 most problematic countries (Iraq and Israel) and all the resulting problems that stems from their poorly conceived conception, they yes, well done Mr Churchill and all the headaches those actions caused.....
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In fairness to him, Churchill was against he formation of Israel, atleast in the way it was established
 
Thatcher and Bush? Wow. I won't say anything bad about Churchill, we needed him at the time to rally the country but there are a lot of reasons why he was not re-elected.

@Byker28i has it on the money. "we" (the white christian west) very much got the snowball rolling. and the last 10 years fueled by media and government stirring the pot.
 
Byker28i said:
When I was growing up and serving, the Irish was a threat to my security, especially when they blew up a bomb 60 yards from me in Oxford street, or decided to plant a bomb in Suvla barrack block .

Then it was Iran that was a threat, then Al Quaeda, now islamist fundamentalists.

We live in a world of threats & conflicts, where anyone with a weapon thinks they are right. We went into Iran on the lie of 45 minutes away from destruction. Those poor innocent souls on the plane over ukraine fell fould of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and a trigger happy missile commander.

End of the day, it isn't a race, a religion, as a whole thats the threat. As always it's a few fanatics with blinkered views dragging others into their fight.

The trick is not to fight them with your own radical fanatical view. Two wrongs don't make a right. Treat them as the criminals they are, and we have laws to deal with that, plus, thanks to the IRA, quite a lot of experience with dealing with these on home soil.
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But you can work toward a solution in Northern Ireland and we did. You can work towards a solution in Ukraine and Crimea. You can't reason with people who want an Islamic caliphate, to kill Americans, to destroy Israel and topple pro-west countries in the middle east. These Islamic fundamentalists abroad in places like Raqqa leave you with little option but to destroy them. The ones here planning attacks if found guilty should be locked up and the key thrown away. Same for the people caught preaching and inciting violence.
 
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Laudrup said:
These Islamic fundamentalists abroad in places like Raqqa leave you with little option but to destroy them. The ones here planning attacks if found guilty should be locked up and the key thrown away. Same for the people caught preaching and inciting violence.
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its a vicious circle. you do all that and it fuels the hatred.
 
Laudrup said:
These Islamic fundamentalists abroad in places like Raqqa leave you with little option but to destroy them. .
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I would suggest, that simply because you're unable to look at the mater any other way your view points are as extreme as theirs
 
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Laudrup said:
Thatcher and Churchill consistently poll very highly in the best Prime Ministers we've had.
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And Britains Got Talent was one of the highest rated shows last year... Not sure how popularity in itself can be seen as an accolade.

And Neil, I think that just because someone was there to rally the country (no doubt in a brilliant manner) does not mean we should exclude them from any future criticism.
 
boyfalldown said:
I would suggest, that simply because you're unable to look at the mater any other way you're view points are as extreme as theirs
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I would love to hear how you reason with someone that wants to destroy Israel, drive non-Muslims from Saudi Arabia and replace secular states with an Islamic caliphate. Ask them nicely not to suicide bomb you?
 
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Rapscallion said:
And Neil, I think that just because someone was there to rally the country (no doubt in a brilliant manner) does not mean we should exclude them from any future criticism.
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absolutely not, im just saying that at the time he served a purpose rather than the spineless twit he replaced.

ST4 said:
Or that in the eyes of the electorate they were the best.
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or the lesser of two evils ;)
 
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