Angry White and Thick

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Laudrup said:
Yes that's ok, but it's still an irrelevant comparison.
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why? Choudary is viewed with as much disdain by the average muslim as those guys with their banners are by the average christian. You seem to be arguing he's in some way representative though. Its a perfectly vailid comparison
 
ghoti said:
Godwin's "law" was meant to be a JOKE. I'm always astounded to see people bringing it up as if it means anything.
And, in any case, of course you're right, comparisons with the nazis are pretty relevant in a discussion about institutional racism.
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Thats as maybe, but a far more relevant comparision is with other extreme religious groups, the Army of God or Stern Gang to name just two
 
h14nha said:
The 7/7 bombers, 9/11 perpetrators, the shoe bomber all had links to street preachers too. The frightening thing is the Taliban, Al Qaeda, ISIS are minorities in the Muslim countries in which they operate, yet they manage rule the land with an iron fist. Peaceful Muslims do as they bid for fear of their lives.
Now in Britain, the name Mohammed, and its spelling variants make up the most common name for newborn male babies. In a generation or two it won't matter what non muslims want, we will be out voted by the masses. I wonder then how much 'tolerance' will be shown to people who like a drink, or women who wear revealing clothing. Check out YouTube to see the 'Muslim Vigilantes' patrolling the streets abusing people doing things they don't approve of...........
Just saying :)

The problem in Britain is Europe. As we're not in the Euro we doing better than most of the rest of the european countries. As a result, people want to come here. its not their fault, they have hungry families to feed. As for British people being too lazy to pick fruit, how can a man living in Britain ( and not living in a squat with 10 other people ) feed a family on that income. Give an unemployed Brit the equivalent 4 x payrise they get by coming here, and I suspect many Brits would be happy to go clean toilets in Warsaw. Minimum British wage £260/week, minimum Polish wage £308/month ( in 2010 it was £218/month in Poland )
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The last couple of sentences show a very basic level of economics. Until you look at the cost of living, the wage increase figure on its own is irrelevant.
One thing I do know is that £260 per week, after tax, housing expenses, food and travel doesn't leave much at all, and even less in London.
 
I'm a great believer in the concept of guest and host.

Imagine if you have a guest to your home, you've never met them but they are to stay with you. Being a civilised chap I'd welcome them in. They may be different to me, have different tastes, friends and views but I'd do my best to make them welcome. The guest settles in and is seemingly happy.

Now imagine that a bit later into the stay they become discontented. They don't like my choice of TV, they demand in my own home I watch the TV shows they like and complain vociferously if I even try and suggest it's my house, my TV etc. They complain about my coffee I give them, listen it comes with milk and/or sugar, it doesn't come with cinnamon flakes, chocolate sprinkles.

I suggest that maybe they'd be happier in their own home where they can watch their TV and make their coffee how they like it. I've tried my best to accommodate my guests, given them shelter, fed them and all I've wanted is some respect in my own home, and they've not managed that.

Moreover they've called me a coffeeist and intolerant as I've suggested they leave as I cannot cater for their unyielding demands.

They've announced they need to stay, they need to stay in my house as they're expecting a baby. That house is for my children, is it fair my house is overrun with their children. However being civilised I can't bear the thought of a child being born in an oppressive place and it'll be safe on my home. It'll have a chance...

The guests have proclaimed my house is their children's as it was born in my house.

No, my house is my house, whether your children were born in it, you and them are guests here and to take my home, make me cater to your TV and coffee demands is unfair. It's not on and I hope none of the residents on the street give up their homes, their havens and their ways to accommodate our guests. It doesbt by matter the guests have all had children born into our homes, these homes are our children's birth right, our news channels are for us and if they don't like it leave or prepare for us to evict you, your children no matter what and until no more of us are standing these streets, these houses are ours. Your children here are guests here, just like you...
 
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Guest comes to stay in my house, performs a triple heart bypass and saves my life. I don't like the clothes they wear and tell them to *** off out of my house.

Guests comes into my house and performs all the odd jobs I cant be bothered to do myself , I don't like that fact that a criminal they have never met has read the same book as them, and tell them to *** off out of my house...

ETC
 
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Guest moves onto my street. Commutes every day, works hard, pays 40% tax and never claims anything at all. I'm not a fan of them having read a book once and tell them to f*** off.
 
So if Mohammed is growing in popularity as a name,

Serious question, which occured to me on the commute this morning. You're not allowed to make an image of Mohammed the prophet, yet you can name your son after him. Isn't that creating your child as an 'image' or reference to the prophet?
 
ST4 said:
The point is no matter what they do good or bad, they're guests. If they can't try fit in to their hosts, they can leave but a good guest is always welcome to stay.
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at what point does someone stop becomeing a guest? Serious question. Once they've lived here an amount of time, paid x amount of tax, gained a british passport or lived for x amount of generations. What point do you regard some one from any forgien country as a citizen, rather then a guest?
 
boyfalldown said:
at what point does someone stop becomeing a guest? Serious question. Once they've lived here an amount of time, paid x amount of tax, gained a british passport or lived for x amount of generations. What point do you regard some one from any forgien country as a citizen, rather then a guest?
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They are guests until they intergrate, marry into the natives a nd abandon their old customs/ways for the customs/ways of the host nation. It doesbt matter if they look different, that's their genetics but they have to wholly fit into, adopt and embrace the ways, methods and customs of the host nation before the hosts can feel they are one of them.

It doesbt even matter if there are more guests, than hosts. Like all good dinner parties the guests are the majority but they embrace, respect and don't complain to the host who's been kind enough to have them. Hth

Oh and another thing. If the guests fancy being hosts without doing any of the above they need to seize this land by force and face the full resistance of the hosts...if as hosts we've got spines, and are prepared to keep our position as hosts for our future generations we need to fight the intruders out (those that wish to take something without regards for it's owners/host)
 
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ST4 said:
They are guests until they intergrate, marry into the natives a nd abandon their old customs/ways for the customs/ways of the host nation. It doesbt matter if they look different, that's their genetics but they have to wholly fit into, adopt and embrace the ways, methods and customs of the host nation before the hosts can feel they are one of them.

It doesbt even matter if there are more guests, than hosts. Like all good dinner parties the guests are the majority but they embrace, respect and don't complain to the host who's been kind enough to have them. Hth
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How might, say, and American / Canadian / Australian acheive this?
 
viv1969 said:
How might, say, and American / Canadian / Australian acheive this?
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They don't complain about what we do, how we live, they don't complain about our food, the native religion. In short when we go there, and them come here they get on with it quietly and peacefully and don't place excessive demands on us. They're ways are our ways more or less, it's easier for them to integrate here and us there.

It's why they're always welcome here IMHO.
 
So what about the people who were born here....whose lineage here goes back generations....who complain about those things?
What will you do with them?
 
viv1969 said:
So what about the people who were born here....whose lineage here goes back generations....who complain about those things?
What will you do with them?
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They are still guests. In the same way I would be a guest in Tokoyo if let's say I was born there, even if my parents were and grandparents if I didn't adopt their customs, language and belief.

You can be a guest in a host country for countless generations if you don't adopt wholly the customs of the host country.

It's nice to have guests, hospitality cuts both ways, but the guest should never attempt to change the ways of the host. It's why you should pick your guests carefully so if they can't adopt your ways, you can at least get along until they leave to go home.
 
ST4 said:
They are still guests. In the same way I would be a guest in Tokoyo if let's say I was born there, even if my parents were and grandparents if I didn't adopt their customs, language and belief.

You can be a guest in a host country for countless generations if you don't adopt wholly the customs of the host country.

It's nice to have guests, hospitality cuts both ways, but the guest should never attempt to change the ways of the host. It's why you should pick your guests carefully so if they can't adopt your ways, you can at least get along until they leave to go home.
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Which customs? Which Beliefs?
 
ST4 said:
They are still guests. In the same way I would be a guest in Tokoyo if let's say I was born there, even if my parents were and grandparents if I didn't adopt their customs, language and belief.

You can be a guest in a host country for countless generations if you don't adopt wholly the customs of the host country.

It's nice to have guests, hospitality cuts both ways, but the guest should never attempt to change the ways of the host. It's why you should pick your guests carefully so if they can't adopt your ways, you can at least get along until they leave to go home.
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You don't half talk some totalitarian bollards :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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fabs said:
Which customs? Which Beliefs?
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I would believe Japanese culture, customs is remarkably different to that of Britain.

Christianity, whether you practice, believe it or not, is the religion of Britain. It has been because it was spread here and adopted by the hosts, it's been here and is the back bone of our culture, conduct etc. Islam isn't. It never has been and never will be unless we as hosts willingly adopt it.

Islam, for example, is the religion of Saudi Arabia. It would be outrageous to suggest otherwise or to change it. They might tolerate Christians, or people descended from countries where Christianity is the host religion as guests but would never see them as their own people.

I feel the same way about Islam. We should tolerate it, and nothing more.
 
ST4 said:
They are still guests. In the same way I would be a guest in Tokoyo if let's say I was born there, even if my parents were and grandparents if I didn't adopt their customs, language and belief.

You can be a guest in a host country for countless generations if you don't adopt wholly the customs of the host country.

It's nice to have guests, hospitality cuts both ways, but the guest should never attempt to change the ways of the host. It's why you should pick your guests carefully so if they can't adopt your ways, you can at least get along until they leave to go home.
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So what you really want is everyone to be just the same?
 
ST4 said:
I would believe Japanese culture, customs is remarkably different to that of Britain.

Christianity, whether you practice, believe it or not, is the religion of Britain. It has been because it was spread here and adopted by the hosts, it's been here and is the back bone of our culture, conduct etc. Islam isn't. It never has been and never will be unless we as hosts willingly adopt it.

Islam, for example, is the religion of Saudi Arabia. It would be outrageous to suggest otherwise or to change it. They might tolerate Christians, or people descended from countries where Christianity is the host religion as guests but would never see them as their own people.

I feel the same way about Islam. We should tolerate it, and nothing more.
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So I would have to convert to Christianity to be considered British in your eyes?
 
You can stay here as long as you convert from Islam to Christianity.

Heard it all now.
 
ST4 said:
but they have to wholly fit into, adopt and embrace the ways, methods and customs of the host nation before the hosts can feel they are one of them.
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All they really have to do is obey the laws wherever they are. What do you mean by ways, methods and customs?


Steve.
 
boyfalldown said

Wow. Godwin's law and it only took 147 posts. I'm amazed it lasted so long. Maybe time for a lock now?


Ok so you don’t like the use of Hitler or the Nazi’s.


How about Pol Pot and theKhmer Rouge started with less than 200 members out of a population of around 7million.


Saddam Hussein around 1000 members of the Ba’ath party in 1959 out of a population of about 6.5 million of which only around 1.3 million were Sunni.


The point I was trying to make is that all through history there is a point that things can be stopped if good people from all sides do something about it if not history teaches us the outcome and it’s not good.


boyfalldown said

The majority of the intolerence I see today is towards normal, law abiding muslims who wish nothing more then to get on witth their lives. They view the likes of Choudary et al... in the same way as I view the likes of the Westboro Baptist Church or the average moderate Jew views the Jewish Defense League. With nothing but distain.


This is all we are all trying to do and I’m not taking sides here but what I’m talking about is the rise of radical Islam the EDL and there like are (insert own term) but when did they last behead anyone, walk into a magazine office and shoot 22 people killing 11 casually walk up to an injured policeman on the street and shoot him.
 
boyfalldown said:
So what you really want is everyone to be just the same?
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Where did I say that?

In my country I think we should tolerate guests/outsiders and be good to them, but not have our way of life encroached, changed, or governed by them. If they don't like it, they can go back to where they came from by descent, it matters not one jot if they were born here or parents we're actually.
 
ST4 said:
You see, that's what I think about what you say. It's why I'd probably never have you as a guest of mine, or you recieve me.
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There's no probably about either option TBH. :lol:

You keep saying "customs...cultures", but all you can use as an example are religions.
 
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ST4 said:
I didn't actually say that, but Islam isn't the religion of Britain and nor will it be.
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Neither was Christianity once. Historical facts are very fluid to you, aren't they :lol:
 
ST4 said:
In my eyes, yes. Or at least to fit in not proclaim us infidels, plan to attack us, place undue demands on us.
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Big difference between the 2. The number of those proclaiming you infidels or planning to attack you is minuscule compared to the number of Muslims living peacefully in this country but you seem to want to lump them all in together.

BTW, Judaism, Islam and Christianity all originate from the Middle East.
 
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fabs said:
Big difference between the 2. The number of those proclaiming you infidels or planning to attack you is minuscule compared to the number of Muslims living peacefully in this country but you seem to want to lump them all in together.

BTW, Judaism, Islam and Christianity all originate from the Middle East.
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But I don't lump them together. You think I do. I've no problems with having peaceful, contributing guests here. You think I have a problem with it, I don't.

I have a problem with some of our guests trying to change the status quo around here.

I think for culture etc some diversity is a good thing, but when some of that diversity complains about the established ways of life here, then perhaps they shouldn't be here.
 
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ST4 said:
Where did I say all Muslims do that. I say we shod tolerate Muslims/Islam but not go out of our way to accommodate it.
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Youre obviously not explaining yourself very well then, Steve.

In one post you say that if they are here (whether born here or otherwise) they need to adopt our 'ways'. You describe Christianity as being one of our ways, so I and others have asked if you mean they would need to change religion. You told Fabs 'Yes' ...or at least fit in (so basically they would have to change religion), then told me straight afterwards that 'You never said that'. You can see why you get jumped on for these comments cant you?
 
How about those who hold NO religious beliefs?
Do you consider them to be "guests" too?
 
Nikon_Nick said:
Youre obviously not explaining yourself very well then, Steve.

In one post you say that if they are here (whether born here or otherwise) they need to adopt our 'ways'. You describe Christianity as being one of our ways, so I and others have asked if you mean they would need to change religion. You told Fabs 'Yes' ...or at least fit in (so basically they would have to change religion), then told me straight afterwards that 'You never said that'. You can see why you get jumped on for these comments cant you?
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Christianity is the host religion of Britain. If you proactively practice a religion that's not ever been here, how can you truly see yourself as British?

You can live/work here without being British you know.
 
ST4 said:
It was pretty much whole scale adopted and has been here for c1500yrs plus

What was in Islamic countries before Islam, or in Palestine for the last 2000yrs or so?
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Times changed.
They changed when Christianity arrived here.
Perhaps they'll change again now with Islam.
Let's face it...Christians have been every bit as savage in their time...and still are in some ways.
 
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