And the floodgates will open

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nilagin said:
If that's the case, then why is it that people, who have unwittingly bought stolen cars, have been left with nothing. I've never heard of anyone being allowed to keep the car, just because they bought it in good faith.
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Neither have I unless they bought it from an auction where you automatically gain title to the goods. There's definitely something strange going on.
 
srichards said:
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.c...-and-travellers-in-article-re-stolen-caravan/

I think the above is a decent summary of the actual situation.

Looks like the law on stolen property isn't actually as clear cut as I had thought. If you can prove you bought something in good faith then it is possible the original owner can lose out...

Also if something is bought on HP then you aren't the legal owner anyway. You can also legally stop HP payments half way through a contract and hand the item back... could they just not leave the HP company to basically repossess it?
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Excellent piece - ta for the link.

The nastiest aspect of this sort of thing is how successful the government has been in vilifying minority groups. Travellers in this case, but in the past blacks, the Irish (my granddad for one), and most notoriously, Jewish people. Repeat time and time again that 'benefit scroungers' are responsible for the ills of society and some people will come to believe it in time.

“It would not be impossible to prove with sufficient repetition and a psychological understanding of the people concerned that a square is in fact a circle. They are mere words, and words can be molded until they clothe ideas and disguise.”
― Joseph Goebbels
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That lot murdered well over a million 'travellers'.
 
jon ryan said:
The nastiest aspect of this sort of thing is how successful the government has been in vilifying minority groups. Travellers in this case, but in the past blacks, the Irish (my granddad for one), and most notoriously, Jewish people. Repeat time and time again that 'benefit scroungers' are responsible for the ills of society and some people will come to believe it in time.
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None of this is relevant to the ownership of the caravan.
 
srichards said:
Neither have I unless they bought it from an auction where you automatically gain title to the goods. There's definitely something strange going on.
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Also Marché ouvert . Not sure if any of these still exist, but it used to be that anything you bought from one of these automatically gave you 'good title' regardless of provenance.
 
jon ryan said:
Also Marché ouvert . Not sure if any of these still exist, but it used to be that anything you bought from one of these automatically gave you 'good title' regardless of provenance.
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Not since 1995.
 
jon ryan said:
True. It's more about how the tabloids manage to manipulate opinion.
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Not everyone bases their opinions on what can be read in the press. A lot can be based on personal experience.
 
jon ryan said:
Excellent piece - ta for the link.

The nastiest aspect of this sort of thing is how successful the government has been in vilifying minority groups. Travellers in this case, but in the past blacks, the Irish (my granddad for one), and most notoriously, Jewish people. Repeat time and time again that 'benefit scroungers' are responsible for the ills of society and some people will come to believe it in time.



That lot murdered well over a million 'travellers'.
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The minority groups piece is a smoke screen to the real issue here, someones property was nicked and the police are involved and someones in it and as such they cannot get it back.

People use words like racist, biggot, and other words to pervert the course of real justice and that is what is happening here.
 
nilagin said:
Not everyone bases their opinions on what can be read in the press. A lot can be based on personal experience.
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This is so. But a lot of the more credulous readers will tend to judge an entire group because of how a newspaper or whatever represents a small sample. For instance, the far right tell everyone moronic enough to listen that all Muslims are out to kill them and take over this country. The current government are doing something like this by talking of 'benefit scroungers' without mentioning that most people on benefits are pensioners. Travellers are an easy target because they don't have much of a voice.
 
jon ryan said:
This is so. But a lot of the more credulous readers will tend to judge an entire group because of how a newspaper or whatever represents a small sample. For instance, the far right tell everyone moronic enough to listen that all Muslims are out to kill them and take over this country. The current government are doing something like this by talking of 'benefit scroungers' without mentioning that most people on benefits are pensioners. Travellers are an easy target because they don't have much of a voice.
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Thats unfair, a pensioner has paid into our system through NI and PAYE.

What exactly has a traveller contributed?

Oh, aye....great

http://www.littlehamptongazette.co....-hit-two-new-areas-in-littlehampton-1-5336557

http://pierroad.co.uk/2013/07/23/littlehampton-seafront-overtaken-by-travellers/
 
A lot of travellers make themselves an easy target, they don't need help from anyone else. As for "benefit scroungers" those would be the ones who play the system to stay on benefits rather than working, not your average benefit claimer, most people are intelligent enough to recognise that.
 
I'm reminded of a line from Snatch:D:D:D:D:cool:
 
ST4 said:
Travellers, in my experience, are really something you don't want near you. Bet if the police properly investigated these vans/cars, they won't be legit and on cloned plates. They need stopped.
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Any evidence to support that possibly libellous claim?
 
nilagin said:
As for "benefit scroungers" those would be the ones who play the system to stay on benefits rather than working, not your average benefit claimer, most people are intelligent enough to recognise that.
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How many of these are there? What proportion of the total welfare bill do they absorb? Of all the unemployed, how many are actively looking for work as opposed to those playing the system?
 
There are bad eggs in all walks of life, all cultures, societies and smaller social groups. If we really want to discuss the actual problem here (stolen property being unrecoverable) then I think we need to move away from the whole traveller / gypsy labelling.

Would you view the story in a different light if it was a middle class family man who had ended up with the stolen caravan, or a social degenerate living in a bad part of town? I think you would. Stereotypes have no place in this story, the law is there for everyone to abide by regardless of social status, it's just the media trying to drum up more hysteria and direct hatred towards certain social groups.

The focus here should be how the law has failed the original owners and how it seems to be rewarding the current owners.
 
ST4 said:
Travellers, in my experience, are really something you don't want near you. Bet if the police properly investigated these vans/cars, they won't be legit and on cloned plates. They need stopped.
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Some time spent observing in magistrates' courts will disabuse you of the notion that the police do not prosecute offences committed by travellers / gypsies / tarmacadam salespeople.
 
jon ryan said:
Any evidence to support that possibly libellous claim?
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Hard experience of them breaking into land that was secured by our council and the mess that was left behind. Saw it with my own eyes.

As I maintained, you don't want them anywhere near you.

I suspect you feel rather differently and will vilify my comments as something "ist" or whatever. It's the usual boring tired old form of words to suppress the truth.
 
Didn't the new owners buy the caravan for a few hundred pounds? That alone makes it overwhelmingly obvious that they are either lying or knew it was stolen because nobody could be stupid enough to believe a £20K caravan is worth a few hundred legitimately. If someone offered you a D4 for £100 would you think it's all above board?

Regarding travellers and society etc, I'm just wondering what do travellers contribute to society?
 
Cowboy
You'd be charged with handling stolen property.
Lets say, you buy a BMW from a man you don't know that has a book price of £10,000, for £2000.
Obviously, most reasonable people on the Clapham Omnibus would assume that there was something a little bit wrong and not buy it without some very serious questions and enquires.
So if you can show you were offered a bargain that was too good to be true, but did everything you could to establish that it was legit, then you'd be fine. If you didn't then you are likely to get charged.
In this case, £300 for a caravan seems to me to be a tad suspect, but admittedly I've never bought one.
However, obviously the CPS have decided there's not enough evidence of a criminal offence, so once thats sorted, if someones actually using the property as a home, it is very difficult to justify simply evicting them.
A Court is the only place in the circumstances that can be decided.
I don't agree with it, but I don't make law, nor do the Police, there's 650 odd bent gits in Westminster that do that.
 
ST4 said:
Hard experience of them breaking into land that was secured by our council and the mess that was left behind. Saw it with my own eyes.

As I maintained, you don't want them anywhere near you.

I suspect you feel rather differently and will vilify my comments as something "ist" or whatever. It's the usual boring tired old form of words to suppress the truth.
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So you are condemning the entire sub-group 'travellers' ( ~300,000 individual human beings?) on one single experience?

Nice!

Yup, the tabloids have got you, haven't they?
 
gman said:
Didn't the new owners buy the caravan for a few hundred pounds? That alone makes it overwhelmingly obvious that they are either lying or knew it was stolen because nobody could be stupid enough to believe a £20K caravan is worth a few hundred legitimately. If someone offered you a D4 for £100 would you think it's all above board?

Regarding travellers and society etc, I'm just wondering what do travellers contribute to society?
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Some people just want to defend the indefensible scum that travels amongst us.
 
jon ryan said:
So you are condemning the entire sub-group 'travellers' ( ~300,000 individual human beings?) on one single experience?

Nice!

Yup, the tabloids have got you, haven't they?
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I'm just wondering what you are basing your opposing opinion on?
 
ST4 said:
Hard experience of them breaking into land that was secured by our council and the mess that was left behind. Saw it with my own eyes.

As I maintained, you don't want them anywhere near you.

I suspect you feel rather differently and will vilify my comments as something "ist" or whatever. It's the usual boring tired old form of words to suppress the truth.
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gman said:
I'm just wondering what you are basing your opposing opinion on?
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See the bolds? Do you think it's fair to judge an entire group on the actions of a few? I hate, loathe and despise people who discriminate in this manner.
 
I don't read tabloids or any other daily's and haven't done so for years. They all have their own agenda imo. Waste of my money, better things to (mis)spend it on.

You can get all the biased, hypocritical, pinko, leftie, PC nonsense on the telly and internet for free any how:D
 
You didn't answer my question.
 
Having quite a few friends from the travelling community, I'm finding some of these generalisations very offensive. There are good people and bad people from all walks of life. It doesn't make for tarring everyone with the same brush. Just remember this when posting please

Edit. Sorry, didn't realise this was already closed when I posted. But still bear in mind when posting mass generalisations.
 
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