And the floodgates will open

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SpikeK6

SpikeK6

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this is terrible.

Ok their fault they have no insurance but why the hell should the insurance pay out the van has been found and because of some human rights act it cannot be returned
 
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Trouble is though with a normal family a caravan is empty 90% of the time so easy pickings, even if it has got security. But with a traveler family they are going to be in it 90% of the time and the other 10%it will have the best security any man will ever come across............... the rest of the traveling community.
 
Why would one have such an expensive piece of kit and be "between" insurance companies?

More to this than meets the eye I imagine.
 
Little bit more Here the daily mail have a story on it too, but did not post that because in the first line it says about the couples £30K caravan when the other two say £20K:lol:
 
no insurance.. no pay!

(except with RTA as last known insurer on a car for 3rd P damages before anyone gets on their high horse!!)

Simple answer - ban the ownership of fibreglass homes...
 
So as long as you get a receipt from someone who nicks something for you and you live in it the Police won't do anything about it.

It certainly is a funny old world! :shrug:
 
SpikeK6 said:
Little bit more Here the daily mail have a story on it too, but did not post that because in the first line it says about the couples £30K caravan when the other two say £20K:lol:
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On the news earlier it said they purchased the van for £20.000 and spent another £10.000 on it. They also stated they are still paying £250.00 a month finance on it. It is just outrageous that taking it back would breach the travellers living in it their human rights, what about the rights of the owners still paying monthly for other people to live in it ?
 
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terrysphotoz said:
On the news earlier it said they purchased the van for £20.000 and spent another £10.000 on it. They also stated they are still paying £250.00 a month finance on it. It is just outrageous that taking it back would breach the travellers living in it their human rights, what about the rights of the owners still paying monthly for other people to live in it ?
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There none for the victim, those rights have long been erroded away over time.
it seems these days as long as you are prepared to take a little flack for something you will come out smelling of roses in the end but the victim will always be the very last person the law will help.

there may be more to this story and I am sure there is but it looks pretty straight forward to me, they buy a caravn they have it nicked someone buys it and can live in it for ever as the human rights flag gets waved.
 
So the law is now aiding and abetting a crime, looks like UK law once again has shown itself to be an ass again, who say's crime does not pay.
Does this mean if I buy a stolen car unknowingly I can claim I live in it so the legal owners can't take it back.

This country is going down the pan
 
as above I'm sure for all the outrage there is alot more to this then is been told here
 
SpikeK6 said:
What else do you think there could be Hugh, its the second time you have said this??
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dunno for sure, it just seems like we're not getting the whole picture by any means from this story & I'm sure theres more to it.

TBH alot of the details don't make sense - no insurance on your £20k + caravan, or it needing civil and not criminal proceedings to recover for example.(nb I'm not casting any blame, or anything else on the couple with the above comment)

Technically as well it'll belong to the HP company. Normally they're very quick to recover their assets when sold after being stolen. Often at the loss of the (innocent)purchaser. (not that I think the new occupiers are all that innocent)

As I said, the above is only my superstition, but the story just feels as though a large part is missing somehow.
 
Seems the theft took place in 2011. Anyone who has some, please provide evidence that the people living in it didn't buy it in good faith. Oh, and let's see your proof that this actually is the van in question. And how can you be sure this isn't an insurance scam?

etc, etc, etc.
 
boyfalldown said:
dunno for sure, it just seems like we're not getting the whole picture by any means from this story & I'm sure theres more to it.

TBH alot of the details don't make sense - no insurance on your £20k + caravan, or it needing civil and not criminal proceedings to recover for example.(nb I'm not casting any blame, or anything else on the couple with the above comment)

Technically as well it'll belong to the HP company. Normally they're very quick to recover their assets when sold after being stolen. Often at the loss of the (innocent)purchaser. (not that I think the new occupiers are all that innocent)

As I said, the above is only my superstition, but the story just feels as though a large part is missing somehow.
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Insurance thing is weird but its was probably parked up in storage place which was safe and probably has been since they had it, or its on our drive it will be fine.
ther ewill be bits not reported as the papers just really want to sensationalise the story.

jon ryan said:
Seems the theft took place in 2011. Anyone who has some, please provide evidence that the people living in it didn't buy it in good faith. Oh, and let's see your proof that this actually is the van in question. And how can you be sure this isn't an insurance scam?

etc, etc, etc.
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It seems they did buy it in good faith from a guy in a pub for £300, it gets said on here many many times that if a deal is too good to be true it normally always is, so a 20K caravan for £300 from a guy in a pub:shrug:

The van will have serial numbers stamped on it somewhere or maybe it had some distinguishing marks on it somewhere:shrug:

how can it be an insurance scam they did not have any insurance on the van, also would you go to the papers with this if it was a scam??

I do not know all the answers the same as everyone else on here and we only have the info from the reports which we all know is not always accurate but there is never smoke without fire so some of the story has to be true,
 
They may have paid for insurance, but lied about where they kept it, or failed to properly secure it which could invalidate the policy. And you know that it was bought, by the current occupiers, for £300, in a pub, do you? Or do you get your 'facts' from the Sun on a regular basis? It is often said in the tabloid trade that you should be careful of letting facts get in the way of a good story.

And what are your thoughts on this story:

A couple and their two children have been thrown out of their mobile home in the middle of the night. "We were utterly shocked" said the dad of girls aged two and three. "The police banged on the door just before midnight and told us to get out immediately as the caravan - which we bought in good faith - turns out to have been stolen. We were left standing in a field in the rain, surrounded by our possessions and with nowhere to go, at midnight. It was like the Gestapo...
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Oh, and what do you mean by "The floodgates will open"? What floodgates? What do expect to come through them?
 
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jon ryan said:
Oh, and what do you mean by "The floodgates will open"? What floodgates? What do expect to come through them?
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What's stopping similar thefts and then waving the human rights flag when caught? Following this story, logically I could have a walk down to the canal, pick a boat and when the cops come knocking ill just say I bought it off a guy down the pub and I've got nowhere else to go.
 
faddius said:
What's stopping similar thefts and then waving the human rights flag when caught? Following this story, logically I could have a walk down to the canal, pick a boat and when the cops come knocking ill just say I bought it off a guy down the pub and I've got nowhere else to go.
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This is happening a lot, is it?
 
jon ryan said:
This is happening a lot, is it?
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No but it could. There are more than enough people out there that will chance a loop hole just to get something out of it for themselves. Cases like this just highlight it for other chancers to try it as well.
 
jon ryan said:
They may have paid for insurance, but lied about where they kept it, or failed to properly secure it which could invalidate the policy. And you know that it was bought, by the current occupiers, for £300, in a pub, do you? Or do you get your 'facts' from the Sun on a regular basis? It is often said in the tabloid trade that you should be careful of letting facts get in the way of a good story.

And what are your thoughts on this story:



Oh, and what do you mean by "The floodgates will open"? What floodgates? What do expect to come through them?
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I have before that we do not know all the "facts" just whats read in the paper, so no I do not know if they bought it for £300 from a guy in a pub anymore than any one else but thats what is reported by the people who live in it.

Like I said the tabloids always over exagerate but there is never smoke without fire, so there has to be an little bit of truth somewhere for the story to begin.

As for the floodgates being opened and what I mean by it is, a president has been set now for anyone to go take a caravan live in it and nothing will be done, again we do not know if this is the whole truthe but it will not stop people trying.
I knew a couple of guys when I first started working that used to steal caravans and sell them, they where easy pickings and very very hard to trace, so easy money. They never lived in them just stole them and sold them on either down the pub or to friends of friends so to speak.
so it does happen and that was over 25 years ago. so now its reported in the papoer then yest the flood gates could open.

I do not know where that story came from about a family being kicked out of a caravan, but you know as well as I do that would never happen, ok them being kicked out might but they would never be left in a field as that wopuld be against their human rights;)

But what do i think of it, well if the van was stolen and they paid for it in good faith then thats fine it still needs to be returned to the origional owners, it stolen its not theirs to live in.


jon ryan said:
This is happening a lot, is it?
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read above it was happening over 25 years ago, ok not the same scenario but surley stealing a caravan is stealing a caravan.
 
nilagin said:
No but it could. There are more than enough people out there that will chance a loop hole just to get something out of it for themselves. Cases like this just highlight it for other chancers to try it as well.
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Of course it could happen! We may get 10,000,000 East Europeans coming over the horizon, all demanding free boats and caravans, or the unicorns could die out, or people may lean not to take the Sun at face value, or...lots of stuff.

What probability are you assigning to this hypothesis, and what methodology did you use to arrive at your figure?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoWtHqmITOM

Or do you believe it 'cause it was in the Sun and they wouldn't print it if it wasn't true?
 
jon ryan said:
What probability are you assigning to this hypothesis, and what methodology did you use to arrive at your figure?
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Calm down dear. Its not a hypothesis, its an opinion and no methodology is needed just common sense.

All thats being said is that now that its become evident* that you can steal someones caravan/boat whatever, and then keep it if you've got nowhere else to live, its fair to say that incidences of similar crimes will go up. No brainer surely?

Do you dispute that?


*if it's true. Which is a separate argument.
 
jon ryan said:
What probability are you assigning to this hypothesis, and what methodology did you use to arrive at your figure?
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There are certain individuals who reside in this country that take advantage of scenarios just like this. They feel they have the right to live anywhere or anyhow they wish. The case this thread is about just gives them more of a reason to carry on as they wish.
If you think it's any different, you've led a very sheltered life.
 
DorsetDude said:
Calm down dear. Its not a hypothesis, its an opinion and no methodology is needed just common sense.

All thats being said is that now that its become evident* that you can steal someones caravan/boat whatever, and then keep it if you've got nowhere else to live, its fair to say that incidences of similar crimes will go up. No brainer surely?

Do you dispute that?


*if it's true. Which is a separate argument.
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Oh I'm calm, if you'll accept that what I'm doing is giggling, not having hysterics (can't talk for anyone else, of course). Sure, copy-catting is well know in lots of areas - theft, fashion, suicide - so there is a likelihood that a few more caravans than normal will get nicked, and there probably is a kernel of truth in the story. But. Do we know that the current occupiers aren't the couple with two young kids who the police chose not to evict in the middle of the night? Do we know if even now the occupiers aren't being evicted and the van returned to its rightful owners?

We do not, and until we know the whole story, it may be wise not to cry DOOMDOOMDOOM, LOCYUPYUORCARAVANS!!!
 
nilagin said:
There are certain individuals who reside in this country that take advantage of scenarios just like this. They feel they have the right to live anywhere or anyhow they wish. The case this thread is about just gives them more of a reason to carry on as they wish.
If you think it's any different, you've led a very sheltered life.
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There are an estimated 70,000 homeless children in Britain. What steps would you take if yours were among them?

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/mar/08/homelessness-jumps-repossession-unemployment
 
jon ryan said:
Oh I'm calm, if you'll accept that what I'm doing is giggling, not having hysterics (can't talk for anyone else, of course). Sure, copy-catting is well know in lots of areas - theft, fashion, suicide - so there is a likelihood that a few more caravans than normal will get nicked, and there probably is a kernel of truth in the story. But. Do we know that the current occupiers aren't the couple with two young kids who the police chose not to evict in the middle of the night? Do we know if even now the occupiers aren't being evicted and the van returned to its rightful owners?

We do not, and until we know the whole story, it may be wise not to cry DOOMDOOMDOOM, LOCYUPYUORCARAVANS!!!
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Kids or no kids, no one should have the right to live in someone else's property uninvited and deserve to be thrown out.
 
nilagin said:
Kids or no kids, no one should have the right to live in someone else's property uninvited and deserve to be thrown out.
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No-one should have the need to live in someone else's property uninvited. And in a civilized society, this would not happen because society would look after everyone.
 
jon ryan said:
May be best if you nail up your door and hide under the stairs, then. You'll feel safer there.
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You keep metioning The Sun, I and I do not think me or anyone else in this thread has even mentioned the sun,apart from you, I posted a link to something a saw from another paper.

its a thread started to tlak about what we have in front of us at the time, and you know that, and as for me having to hide under the stairs I do not see what that has to do with anything I have said or what others have said.

I have not stated anything that is not there for anyone else to read themselves.
 
jon ryan said:
No-one should have the need to live in someone else's property uninvited. And in a civilized society, this would not happen because society would look after everyone.
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You fail to understand that there are certain individuals who want to live for free and take what is not there's. Last week, such individuals moved into the car park at work and started "setting up camp" amongst our cars. Security approached them and told them what they were doing was unwise and they would be best to move on. The individuals became aggressive, ranting about being threatened. The security guard calmly pointed out that it was a warning not a threat, the owners of the cars (500 people) were all losing their jobs at the end of the week and weren't going to take too kindly to finding someone having set up camp in amongst there cars. They hastily moved, and are now residing in a smaller car park near a large supermarket on the opposite side of where I worked. People like that will always want something for free and will readily take what isn't theirs.
 
ST4 said:
Bare facts, its their caravan, some oiks steal it, the cops find and the rightful owner can't get it back due to the "human" rights of the oiks.

Whats about the rights of the owners?
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Seems they do not exist if you are the victim
 
SpikeK6 said:
Seems they do not exist if you are the victim
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Don't be ridiculous. Of course they have rights. In this country, everyone is assumed to be innocent until proven guilty. That is the very bedrock of democracy. Even people from minority groups have rights, you know. Wars have been fought to defend that particular aspect of civilization.

If you have some germane proof, I suggest you send it to the relevant authority. I'm sure they'll be delighted to hear from you.
 
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