And a father says.....

chuckles

chuckles

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Barry
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....... " who gave permission to photograph my children?"

The story (short version).

Our wedding was always going to be a bit overwhelming in the camera department - most of our friends are photographers and then Marianne's family are a little bit into photography! A friend asked who is going to photograph the wedding and volunteered to do the job along with his business partner who subsequently contracted cancer and couldn't make it because of surgery. Would we mind if another (mutual friend) photographer helps out? No problem. As long as it's the same deal..... we know how much he charges :lol:

We get the shots form both parties (not without it's own problems, but that's another long story). The agreement was/is we'd make our own albums and host them...... Click here (Flash and 56k warning) for the wedding of the year!.

All well and good until this morning. :( A father of couple of boys asked for the files of his kids he saw in one of the albums. I said that under the terms of our agreement we couldn't give them to him: he'd have to go to the photographer concerned. Something I consider as nothing less than being reasonable.

The next bit blew me away.....

"What? He has photos of my children? Who gave permission for him to have those or take those? I have to give written permission for my kids to be photographed at school. I never gave anybody permission to photograph my kids."

I should add he has very successfully completed a 5 year degree course in Law and has it coming out of a**e and ears! His partner (and the mother of the boys in question says the same thing!) He even lectures in one of the colleges in Cambridge.

Everybody who knows me knows fully my feeling on kids and photographing them. I feel so angry.

Is this the start of the end? Where do wedding togs stand on this issue? Do you cover this issue in your contract with the couple.

I have a quite plausible and valid argument but I don't want to offer it just yet .... I don't want to pre-empt the debate. (I feel I should put it in a sealed envelope or something :naughty: )

What do you feel?
 
Don't be bashful..... let rip!

We haven't fall out with him at all...... I'm just shocked.
 
Its a sad situation in a world gone bonkers!! I guess he has his 'rights' or his kids have theirs so I imagine their aren't many legs to stand on if he gets legal on your @rse!

I'll view the case with interest if you keep us posted!
 
I would just reply and say "No you don't".
And as for school, that's just something the school do, they do it out of a legal requirement.

The photographer didn't need permission.
I suppose the defense will vary due to where the photographs in question were taken. If in public, then that is a defense.
If on private property at a private function (IE Yours), then you granted the photographer permission to be on your property at the time, you also invited this man and his kids. He didn't stipulate that he didn't want photos of his children taking...(and if he did, you would probably have either requested they stay away from the tog...or leave).

Not sure what law school he went to, but surely he's talking out of his arse?
 
So he goes to a wedding, in the reasonable knowledge there will be a photographer, then moans about it? Some people have an education which exceeds their intelligence :cuckoo:
 
Tell him that as he's a lawyer, you've negotiated a special price for the photos - only 25 quid each. Or you could agree with him and say they are terrible looking kids - I never gave my permission for them to be in any shots.
 
LMAO. What a prat he sounds. Look, i'll stand to be corrected but as I see it if I take my kids someplace where I can reasonably expect them to be photographed (a wedding is one place) then I see it as granting permission to photograph them. Now, if subsequently those photo's were to be doctored or turn up somewhere in such a way as to be dissassociated with said place then I might consider the legal ramifications...

I wouldn't even entertain a conversation with him. I'd just tell him it was his choice to go to the wedding and to take his kids. He could always have stuck a black bin bag over their heads, although I think he's the one in need of that ;)

Oh, and legally, I think any sane judge would agree that the taking of photo's at a wedding is an expected practice and tell him to take a hike. Finding a sane judge is another matter...
 
I'm not really bashful, it's just that most of the lawyers and people somehow working with law I've met were like that.

Aside from that, though, it seems to me that too many people tend to think 'child photograph' equals 'possible abuse in child pornography' or something like that. In other words, they are kind of too paranoid, as it seems to me. I might be getting the wrong impression, but I don't think I am, at the moment.

What did he request you to do?
 
Keep 'em coming! This is good..... :clap:
 
I am a bit confused here. He knows that there is photos of his kids as he wants copies and then is shocked that the photos exist? :thinking: What have I missed?

In any case I am with Dod, School is a different thing entirely and in the case of taking photos at a wedding then the land/property owner would have any say on the matter which they would normally say something like "we hold weddings, people take cameras, and use them! Sort it out like grown-ups".
 
Slapo said:
What did he request you to do?
Click to expand...

He just wanted to have the files for his computer background images and that.

They are not ours to 'give away' though. We're just respecting the terms of our license :shrug:
 
chuckles said:
He just wanted to have the files for his computer background images and that.

They are not ours to 'give away' though. We're just respecting the terms of our license :shrug:
Click to expand...

Ah, sorry, I must have skipped that part.
I guess you could have just given him the tog's business card and let it go, but as the tog's your friend, I see why you're thinking about it.
 
HIMUPNORTH said:
I am a bit confused here. He knows that there is photos of his kids as he wants copies and then is shocked that the photos exist? :thinking: What have I missed?
Click to expand...

I think that was a 'knee jerk' reaction to me saying no he can't have the files! A bit like "If that wasn't a goal then I'll have my ball back" :lol:

We have license to get prints for people but we're not to profit from it.... not unreasonable.
 
public place?
wedding with no photos taken?
permission to take a photo?


back to reality (bump)
I have many photos of children in races on my website - i follow all the guidelines, an my details are always available at the event although if a parent, objected to them being on the website i would remove them straight away and delete them without question - give the father a freebie? - er no...

of course the photographer could give the father a copy and SAY they had deleted them...
 
Slapo said:
Ah, sorry, I must have skipped that part.
I guess you could have just given him the tog's business card and let it go, but as the tog's your friend, I see why you're thinking about it.
Click to expand...

You've not missed anything.... I omitted those bits or the OP would've been too long.

That's what I did in the end - so far we're all still friends :clap:
 
I think most folk here have got it spot on, permission was not asked because it was not required, since he brought his children to a function where there was every expectation photography would play a central part. If he had a problem with his children being photographed he should have spoken up beforehand or not taken them along.

If he gives you any grief tell him he should go back and study some more law as the first five years either didn't include enough of the right kind of law or it just didn't take.
 
Tell him to go back to his law books. There is no law preventing photography of children ( with the obvious exceptions ) so he can go jump :lol:
 
I'd check if it was ok with the photographer then supply him with a nicely presented 10x8 shot of his children for free.








But with their faces pixelated out for their protection.
 
mrgubby said:
I'd check if it was ok with the photographer then supply him with a nicely presented 10x8 shot of his children for free.








But with their faces pixelated out for their protection.
Click to expand...


Earl grey tea.....EVERYWHERE! :lol:
 
SO let me get this right... He came to your wedding, which you very kindly invited him to and probably paid a fortune to feed him and his family for the day (congratulations by the way), then he let his kids pose for the normal group photos (which lets face it... kids and cameras, they are bound to be in a few!), now he's throwing his toys out the pram and giving the big 'I am a lawyer, I know my rights', just because you are respecting your photographers wishes and not passing on files?

What a prat! He could have just said 'ok, fair enough', contacted the togs and probably got the files himself for a fiver or something. I'm with the others, contact the tog yourself, tell them the situation, add a few ££'s on and see if he'll buy the file off you. Though with his attitude, I don't know if I'd do him any favours now!
 
Aahhh...how I love it when lawyers have a rant! I work in close proximity to the legal profession and enjoy a good argument with the lawyers! Great intelligence, no common sense!
I'd have told him that I was hired to take photos of the wedding and everyone involved and that I was within my legal rights to do so. The thing with lawyers is not to be intimidated by them! Half the time when they win it is not necessarily because they are right but because the other party thinks they must be right because they know the law.
 
Love the 'pixelation' idea! Made I chuckle! ;)

The biggest joke of the lot is?

His youngest son features on the front page of our brochure! :thinking: He gave his permission (was chuffed to bits) nor did he charge us .... go figure
 
michaelgreen78 said:
Aahhh...how I love it when lawyers have a rant! I work in close proximity to the legal profession and enjoy a good argument with the lawyers! Great intelligence, no common sense!
I'd have told him that I was hired to take photos of the wedding and everyone involved and that I was within my legal rights to do so. The thing with lawyers is not to be intimidated by them! Half the time when they win it is not necessarily because they are right but because the other party thinks they must be right because they know the law.
Click to expand...

It was OUR wedding ..... although we would've liked to the ability to photograph it ourselves :) Saved some complications I can tell you.
 
Ok..... my take on it! (The sealed envelope)

Mostly it's pretty much as people have responded here.

There are shots of them (the family) in some group shots, the father holding one of the kids. Because of this, I said to the father, "You have tacitly given permission for your children to be photographed".

Legally, he hasn't got a leg to stand on. I know he wouldn't take it to court but it got me thinking.

My other point is......
...... should wedding togs rely upon this fact or should it be written into the contract with the Bride and Groom? It seems you need to cover your a**e :razz:
 
Barry - just tell him to go take a jump. What a complete and utter arrogant nonce!

Anyone who takes their kids to a wedding has a reasonable expectation that there will be a photographer or photographers present, not to mention a gazillion guests flashing away with cameras and their kids are going to appear in some shots.

Too much studying and not enough common sense. ;)
 
I think he knows exactly how I feel Cedric.

The point is I got the impression he knows what an idiot he's been. I'm of the opinion he lashed out without thinking of the ramifications of his actions.... call it 'professional embarrassment'.

I reckon common sense is something you're born with - not something you can learn easily. I've never seen a college course in beginners common sense. Now there's an opening.... plenty of potential students!
 
Ask him to come round for a coffee, ask him to cite the laws that back up his claims and then ask if he'd like some humble pie with his beverage ;)
 
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