Anbody getting winter tyres

[barneyrubble]

Not really likely in a fwd car unless it's lift off oversteer and accelerating again in the chosen direction of travel will straighten the car up again.

Did you watch the video? :bang:

 

[nilagin]

Did you watch the video? :bang:

No I hadn't seeing as you posted it later, but now having done so, he braked, a no, no in a fwd car, he should of accelerated once the back end broke loose. Plus not exactly real world driving conditions, driving a slalom in snow.

 

[specialman]

Never really contemplated winter tyres, always saw them as something you only need if you live somewhere like the French alps, or if you're paranoid about venturing out in cold conditions over here. I'm sure it's neither of those (and I'll be corrected by someone I'm sure) but I've yet to have a struggle in winter on normal tyres...

30,000+ miles per year, many of them through the colder months, and sometimes not on the freshest tread, has been more a case of learning to drive better than have a crutch to rely on....

**DONS HARDHAT...**

 

[blondie606]

I'm going with a full set of winter tyres after a couple of years with just fronts - the difference they make is very impressive . Was lucky enough to pick up a set of new steel wheels for £40 & 4 new winter tyres for £170 .They're going on this weekend ready for a couple of trips up north & will probably stay on till at least March ( unless summer comes early )

FWIW......the recommendation is on FWD if you really only want to run 2 winter tyres put them on the rear axle to help stop the back end breaking away .I'm still not 100% sure how that would happen if there's not enough grip at the front end to get any sort of speed up but hey,what do I know ??

& as far as I know most ( not all ) 4wd cars run tyres that are classed as M&S tyres ,all year round . I found this out whilst trying to source some winter tyres for a Tiguan..... we ordered 3 sets which said M&S on the website & when they arrived they were the same as the ones already on the car...a few phone calls later to various tyre suppliers confirmed the above info .

bring on the snow....

 

[barneyrubble]

No I hadn't seeing as you posted it later, but now having done so, he braked, a no, no in a fwd car, he should of accelerated once the back end broke loose. Plus not exactly real world driving conditions, driving a slalom in snow.

Theres more than one video - one of which was posted before.

You clearly know best though.....

Better obviously than the whole of sweden who have outlawed it

Ford who state:

4) Why should Winter Tyres be fitted in sets of four?
Tyres need to perform consistently, particularly braking in severe weather conditions. Fitting Winter Tyres only on the driving wheels is not recommended. If your car is front wheel drive and the Winter Tyres are only fitted on the front wheels you risk spinning. If your car is rear wheel drive and the tyres are only fitted on the rear wheels you risk sliding off the road while turning. You should ensure that all tyres are of the same speed rating and load index. Consequently a mix of Winter Tyres and Standard Summer Tyres should not be fitted to your vehicle.

The new zealand transport agency:

Never mix winter tyres with other tyres. Tests have
shown that, if winter tyres are mixed with summer
tyres on the same vehicle, the different degrees of
grip can make the vehicle unbalanced and difficult
to control in an emergency or during hard braking.

It may also affect your insurance as well - assuming you are telling them you are only swapping two - as its against advice of pretty much all manufacturers of both cars and tyres. They have a pretty good get out clause in event of something really serious happening.

 

[wack61]

I was thinking of putting a set on my impreza WRX but at £640 I don't think I'll be bothering

Then in the despatch area at work there was a set of brand new winter tyres in the right size

One of the reps had just changed cars so they'd sold them on eBay , they made £220

I wish I hadn't seen them now aaaarrrrggggg

 

[nilagin]

Never really contemplated winter tyres, always saw them as something you only need if you live somewhere like the French alps, or if you're paranoid about venturing out in cold conditions over here. I'm sure it's neither of those (and I'll be corrected by someone I'm sure) but I've yet to have a struggle in winter on normal tyres...

30,000+ miles per year, many of them through the colder months, and sometimes not on the freshest tread, has been more a case of learning to drive better than have a crutch to rely on....

**DONS HARDHAT...**

+1. I Learnt how to handle cars in an empty snow filled car park. Learn what the car will do and how it will react by forcing it into various situations. Where I am in the UK, winter tyres aren't really necessary. Just adjust your speed and driving style to the conditions. My car has fat 225 40×18 Continental Contact Sport summer tyres and has never lost traction. I got stuck in deep snow once as I tried to pull away on a steep hill. I put snow socks on front tyres, drove onto level ground, removed snow socks and carried on.

 

[Steve Smith]

I Learnt how to handle cars in an empty snow filled car park. Learn what the car will do and how it will react by forcing it into various situations.

Myself and my brother used to do that whenever it was icy. My view is that if you can't control a car when you are making it slide on purpose, then your not going to be able to do it when it happens by surprise.


Steve.

 

[andya700]

To those people who say - "put the Winter tyres on the rear axle", I do not really care what the so called experts say, because what I am going to say next will be hard to argue with.

IF you keep summer tyres on the front in a FWD car and you come to a hill/corner, then how are the drive wheels supposed to maintain traction without any grip?

What is the main problem with most FWD cars on wet roads when you drive too fast around a corner - UNDERSTEER - the car goes straight on, because the FRONT wheels lose traction.

 

[Russ77]

What is the main problem with most FWD cars on wet roads when you drive too fast around a corner - UNDERSTEER - the car goes straight on, because the FRONT wheels lose traction.

Agreed but understeer is pretty easy to cope with (lift off and/or reduce the steering angle ....... and perhaps hope for the best )

The real problem arises when the rear of the car has less grip than the front, the front end grips and take the bend/corner, the rear breaks traction and your tail steps out Not particularly easy to deal with for mere mortals

OK, you'd have to be driving like a bit of a tool to make this happen under "normal" circumstances but what if you're trying to avoid an obsticle/collision and need to brake and/or steer hard?

In the scenario of snow tyres, in very bad/snowy conditions I doubt you'd get into the scenario where you'd lose traction from the rear wheels before the front as you should be driving cautiously anyway but as you rightly said, if you haven't got winter tyres on the front your biggest problem would be traction and getting going in the first place

On a side note, it amazes me the number of people I see struggling in the snow/ice that think giving it the beans is the way to get the car moving...... I sometimes feel like saying "you're doing a great job at polishing that patch of ice "

 

[onomatopoeia]

What is the main problem with most FWD cars on wet roads when you drive too fast around a corner - UNDERSTEER - the car goes straight on, because the FRONT wheels lose traction.

Understeer is not caused by loss of traction on the front wheels. Rear wheel drive cars can understeer too.

Traction != grip

 

[Russ77]

Understeer is not caused by loss of traction on the front wheels. Rear wheel drive cars can understeer too.

Traction != grip

If understeer isn't caused by the front wheels losing (or not having enough) grip/traction then what causes it? :shrug:

Obviously understeer is more prevelant on FWD cars as you're asking the front wheels to deliver power AND steer at the same time.

You can force understeer by deliberately applying too much power and breaking traction. Of course this can also happen if you enter a bend/corner too quickly and/or his a slippery surface but ultimately the front wheels will lose grip/traction.

 

[Digitalize]

The speeds you're driving when conditions are bad oversteer shouldn't be an issue. Just don't do any braking during a corner, as the front will slow down but the back won't.

It's not the best idea but at least it's not as stupid as only on the rear of a RWD car.

I'm considering winter tyres, but I live down a steep hill which wouldn't be gritted, so I doubt I'll get over that anyway, even with good tyres.

 

[Dave *]

Funnily enough I was discussing winter tyres with a few taxi drivers recently, (I live in the North East, so we see some snow and ice over the winter ), all of them said they fit 2 winter tyres to the front, and that handles the conditions we see.

The biggest problem is maintaining traction on inclines, and it's the drive wheels that are important for that, it's also the front wheels that need the grip to brake when going downhill, especially when ice is present.

There are far more advantages to prioritising the front wheels, and only the "taking corners too fast" scenario for the back.

 

[seriousrikk]

I'm considering winter tyres, but I live down a steep hill which wouldn't be gritted, so I doubt I'll get over that anyway, even with good tyres.

You would be suprised how good they are.

Couple of years back I went over the brow of a steep hill after prolonged snowfall on a well used B road. Conditions were packed snow/ice with a thin dusting on top.

After driving on a totally clear road I was more than a little surprised to see the hill littered with abandoned cars. On both sides of the road. Brown trousers time... but despite the conditions I was able to slow down & navigate the downhill section. This is a pretty steep hill.

On the other side of the valley the story was the same, uphill section littered with cars along with numerous people still sliding about trying (failing) to get up the hill. Even folks doing it right (ie slow n gentle) were making no progress. I had no problem, plenty of traction available to move my rumored to be bad in snow car up the hill with ease. I had at the time little snow experience, but I had winter tyres. I was astounded at the extra level of grip provided.

 

[andya700]

If understeer isn't caused by the front wheels losing (or not having enough) grip/traction then what causes it? :shrug:

Obviously understeer is more prevelant on FWD cars as you're asking the front wheels to deliver power AND steer at the same time.

You can force understeer by deliberately applying too much power and breaking traction. Of course this can also happen if you enter a bend/corner too quickly and/or his a slippery surface but ultimately the front wheels will lose grip/traction.

Exactly.
In the Winter it is all down to reacting to the different conditions. If it is really cold, then I let around 5% - 10% air out of the tyres, and drive much slower than I normally would. Some cars cope a lot better than others, depending on how smooth the clutch release is and how the gears are spaced.
Our second car is an old Mondeo Mk2, which runs on 195/60/15 tyres, and it is a good Winter car, because the power delivery is very smooth. We have a 1/6 hill to get in and out of our village, and I was able to get up that last year when they hadn't bothered to grit it. The key apart from lower tyre pressures is trundling up hills in 2nd or 3rd gear at a constant speed at very low revs.
I also have a new favourite tyre, which is on both cars, and which I did 20K miles on from March last year in all kinds of weather - the Barum Bravuris 2. It seems to be a good allround tyre, maybe a little noisier than some brands, but it has been sure footed in all conditions, from 40C in Italy (including torrential downpours) to freezing roads here.
If the weather turns really bad, then the main problem is roads becoming totally blocked, with traffic at a standstill for hours, so sometimes it doesn't matter which tyres you are on if you are stuck in the middle of a jam, or if someone else does something stupid - which happens a lot of the time.