analogue versus digital

Mecki

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Hi all,

i have a very basic question: I own an old analogue mirror reflex camera and also a digital mirror reflex. Of course the market goes more digital every day it seems but I also love my analogue camera and would like to use it. Is there still a market for analogue photography?
 
Quite a few here regularly use both film and digital.

As Mads said...come and check out the film and conventional section...and you will find an exceptionally helpful and friendly group.
 
What do you mean by 'market'?
There's certainly nothing to stop you using it, but it can get expensive to use commercially compared to digital, depending on what you're shooting of course (sheet film can be cheaper than large format digital).
 
I think he meant a market in terms of do people still make and sell film cameras - the answer to which is only in the very cheap (holga etc) and very expensive (leica, MF , plate etc) ends of the market - most of the big players no longer sell new film SLRs , but you can pick up some decent bargains second hand.
 
I think he meant a market in terms of do people still make and sell film cameras - the answer to which is only in the very cheap (holga etc) and very expensive (leica, MF , plate etc) ends of the market - most of the big players no longer sell new film SLRs , but you can pick up some decent bargains second hand.

I think both Nikon (F6?) and Canon still make film SLRs.
 
I think both Nikon (F6?) and Canon still make film SLRs.

The last film SLRs Canon released were in 2004, and I can't see them new for sale EOS 300x and EOS 30v / 33v (eye controlled focus - I had an earlier 30)
 
analogue?

This is like a MK1 Escort isn't it?
There's no such thing!
It was just a Ford Escort... then they changed it... and called it the MK2 escort.... so people decided that the Ford Escort must be the MK1..... no... it was 'just' the Ford Escort!!!!!

analogue - a property varying with time, measured continually, without sample.....

Introduced to common useage to describe old fasioned vinyl or magnetic tape sound recordings, at the inception of electronically 'sampled' digital sound recording and the Compact-Disc.

It may be reasonable to suggest that a carburetor, varying the mixture strength of charge entering an internal combustion engine, continually varying the rate of fuel delivery in real time proportional to a pressure signal from a pitot tube, was an 'analogue' carburation system, where an electronically controlled fuel injection system is 'Digital' varying the mixture strength in descrete injection pulses according to sensor data....

But to a still photograph?

What is varying with time, let alone varying seemlessly, rather than in time bound samples?

Bizarely..... even 'analogue' video, isn't really all that 'analogue', becouse the image is 'sampled'... its merely transmitted as an analogue wave signal to tape or broadcast..... while conventional cine film... each 'frame' is a 'sampled' still image!

ITS FILM or its HALIDE or its CHEMICAL photography!

ANALOGUE in deed!;)
 
^^

Analogue is simply the opposite of digital....

It's digital which is being misused.
It's become a "buzzword" for anything and everything!!

Just like "dongle" became a buzzword for USB storage, USB WiFi devices and USB Bluetooth devices, when in truth a "dongle" is none of the above, not even close.
 
So it's not a Ford Escort after all? :lol:

What should we call digital then, because it's actually analogue at source :D
 
Why would you want to buy a new Analogue camera anyway. It is not like it would be any better than a 20 year old mint condition one is it. The film is the same in either.

That was half the appeal to analogue for me, being able to use nice old cameras with really good manual focus that were relatively cheap. The downside was I realised how crap I was at taking photographs when I had less to choose from and the photos that I "deleted" were now costing 20p each!
 
Well, first of all thanks for all the replies to my question. I realise that it is not an easy question to answer. But all of you have given me helpful answers so thank you! :):)
The thing I always wonder about is whether the digital cameras which have so many new functions in comparison to the older ones (many things are automatic and so on) are actually good for "learning photography"...I mean, I have this imagination that the photographers of the earlier days had to prepare everything much better in order to get a good shot - and as many of you said, it was also more expensive. I wonder if they had to new their craft a bit better or if it was simply different you know...
I do for example like the older brilliant movie posters of the 1960s and so on...they have this atmosphere in them like magic.
 
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The thing I always wonder about is whether the digital cameras which have so many new functions in comparison to the older ones (many things are automatic and so on) are actually good for "learning photography"...I mean, I have this imagination that the photographers of the earlier days had to prepare everything much better in order to get a good shot - and as many of you said, it was also more expensive. I wonder if they had to new their craft a bit better or if it was simply different you know...

I think working out stuff like shutter speeds and aperture would have become second nature, almost like learning your times tables. When I tried film, it was these which royaly screwed me over. I watched the guy who owned the camera (a 30+ year old Minolta) and he'd estimate the settings and take 2 or 3 shots either side of these (like with bracketing on a DSLR).
 
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Well, first of all thanks for all the replies to my question. I realise that it is not an easy question to answer. But all of you have given me helpful answers so thank you! :):)
The thing I always wonder about is whether the digital cameras which have so many new functions in comparison to the older ones (many things are automatic and so on) are actually good for "learning photography"...I mean, I have this imagination that the photographers of the earlier days had to prepare everything much better in order to get a good shot - and as many of you said, it was also more expensive. I wonder if they had to new their craft a bit better or if it was simply different you know...

A lot of the not super old cameras have metering which is all you really need. The manual focusing system through the viewfinder is so much better than manual focus on DSLRs that I actually enjoyed using it.
If film and and processing was next to free I would use film cameras.

I struggled because I am so used to seeing the images in a large size on my monitor and having the ability to tweak exposure, highlights etc,. Receiving a 5x7 final print was a bit of a shock, and as I said told me everything I needed to know about my ability at taking photographs!
 
Well, first of all thanks for all the replies to my question. I realise that it is not an easy question to answer. But all of you have given me helpful answers so thank you! :):)
The thing I always wonder about is whether the digital cameras which have so many new functions in comparison to the older ones (many things are automatic and so on) are actually good for "learning photography"...I mean, I have this imagination that the photographers of the earlier days had to prepare everything much better in order to get a good shot - and as many of you said, it was also more expensive. I wonder if they had to new their craft a bit better or if it was simply different you know...

Yes, shooting film you have to prepare a lot more, particularly exposure calculation and especially with slide film that has little room for error. In difficult light, you might use one or all of several methods to make sure it was right, and then use the BLF technique (bracket like f...) or run a processing clip test and tweak that if necessary. Digital is wonderfully liberating in that respect.

Some say a film camera and a prime lens are good for learning, forcing you to take a more measured approach, but I think that nonsense. If you want to work that way, learning from your mistakes the hard way instead of being encouraged by your success, then cover the LCD and tape up the zoom ring of your DSLR :thumbsdown:
 
The thing I always wonder about is whether the digital cameras which have so many new functions in comparison to the older ones (many things are automatic and so on) are actually good for "learning photography"...I mean, I have this imagination that the photographers of the earlier days had to prepare everything much better in order to get a good shot - and as many of you said, it was also more expensive. I wonder if they had to new their craft a bit better or if it was simply different you know...

Depends what you want to learn about photography really, doesn't it?

But, Cameras do NOT teach 'Photography', they cant even teach you how to use a camera!

(Though my Nikon has a 'Guide' setting that's supposed to offer tutorial advice and tips! Maybe these will become more common and more useful on entry level cameras, like mine... but no... its no 'Teacher'... you'd learn more, reading a book!)

I started to get a bit keen in 1989, when I started Uni & my Dad gave me an old Olympus OM10. Now he'd always been a keen snapper, but after Uni I moved back to the family farm and was a bit surprised when I asked my Gran if she minded me developing slide film in her kitchen.....

It was a revealing excersise; I knew that before she was married my Gran was a registered Pharmasist, and that her mother was a school-teacher... what I DIDN'T know was that my great grandmother.... was a keen ameteur photographer...... an interest she persued from childhood, encouraged by HER Dad!

So, when I asked about developing my own film..... promted storied from my Gran about learning photography from her mother when she was a kid.... and how it got her interested in chemistry, which lead her to become a pharmasist!

Anyhow... repeating the anacdotes; My Gran was born in 1920, I think, so we're talking late 1920's early 1930's, and her helping her mum, prepare prepare wet-plates! So no box brownie stuff here, SERIOUSE photography for the era!

And My Grans part, started (remember, family were farmers) going and collecting the eggs.... then seperating the yoke for the white, and using the yoke to make a proper custard for tea, so they weren't wasted, but leaving the white to make the film emulsion, to be spread on the wet plates!

Next she would have to cycle to the village, and get a list of ingredients from the Chemist that would be nie on impossible these days.... I know silver nitrate was a key ingredient, but I have a feeling that arsenic was used as well, and think I remember her mentioning antimony? Black-Magic this lot!

So, having got the egg-white and chemicals, a photographic emulsion had to be brewed.... in the dark... then spread on the glass plates, and then dried in the airing cupboard!

This is all before you get any where NEAR a camera!

All incredibly interesting stuff..... but do you really need or want to know about it these days when you can pop into boots and buy a roll of Kodak's finest?

So, plates prepared..... you can take a photo..... Field camera... a wooden box with a hole infront for the lens, and a plate of ground glassin the back, the view-finder and a bit of black velvet over the top so you can see it..... all on a wooden tripod....

They lived in the Cotswoulds, so aparently the camera would be put on the gig and they would go have a picnic in the hills, while my Gt Gran looked around and chose spot to place the camera.... then she would replace the view-screen with a prepared plate, remove the lens cap, and go eat her sandwhiches while she made an exposure.... timing it with her little wrist watch! Three or four plates later..... they would go home.

Next comes making a print. Gran sent out to collect the eggs, and more custard made..... aparently my Great Grandad always knew when my Gt Gran was going to do some photography..... she'd start by cutting rhubarb... for the crumble.... to go with the custard!

And the plate preparation job repeated, only on cartridge paper 'sized' over a wooden frame like for an artists water-colour.... and back to the aring cupboard. THEN the exposed plates would be developed.

And on a sunny afternoon, 'prints' would be made by contact printing, the developed plate, against a sized and coated bit of cartridge paper, on the kitchen windowsill.... before the print was developed....
And she had a photograph or four.

All rather tedius when you can just drop a roll of 36 frames into Boots and get prints back in an hour!

And utterly redundant, in modern times, when you can go straight from view-finder to paper, within a few clicks of a button!

Do you want or need to know any of this old craft, in modern photography?

It's all very very interesting, and incredibly involving, and you get to know and understand as well as control the entire process from start to finish........ But how relevent is that to what you want to do? And hardly any of it involves the actual camera!

Using a more modern SLR Film camera.... the versatility & capability and the operation is much the same as a modern DSLR, and both can offer as much manual control.

I have an old Zenith Film SLR, which has no Through The lens (TTL) metering; just shutter-speed control, aparture on the lens. To take a photo, I have to meter by eye, or hand-held meter, and then apply settings to the camera.

Putting my Nikon DSLR on 'Manual' I have TTL metering telling me if the settings I have selected will give over or under exposure... this is pretty much the same as my Sigma Film SLR, that is fully manual, but with a swing needle in the view-finder TTL Meter, to save having a hand held meter.

I have OM4, which has both Through the lens metering, AND automatic exposure, by aparture priority... I select the aparture on the lens..... electronics in the camera set the apropriate shutter speed according to meter reading... Nikon has the same feature, if I select 'Aparture Priority' setting. It also has a 'Shutter-Priority' setting, that some other cameras of the same era as my Olly had; you select the shutter speed, camera selects apropriate aparture.

OM10, used a 'centre weighted average' metering system... taking an average meter reading over the whole veiwfinder area, but guessing that the most important bit is the bit in the middle. This is one of the metering options on the Nikon.

OM4 had centre weighted metering..... but also had 'spot' metering..... press a button and it would give an exposure value based on whatever was in the middle ring of the view-finder focus spot. Again, this is possible on the Nikon. As in the OM4's multi-spot averaging meter function, I put centre spot over something in the scene, and press button, to tell the camera if its a highlight or low-light, and I can take I think seven samples that the camera then averages to get an optimum exposure value. Nikon can do this too (I think!) BUT will do the same thing 'automatically' in its 'matrix meter mode'.

But the DSLR goes on... it has a whole dial of 'auto' modes, 'auto', portrait, landscape; sport; macro.... AND it's auto-focus, so I dont even have to touch the lens, it will do almost everything but point itself and press the shutter!

There are two features, most of my old film cameras had that are missing from the Digital; A Hyper-Focal scale on the lens, so I can work out what will be in acceptable focus between aparture marks, and A Depth of Field preview button... but it has a preview screen on the back.

So to all extents and purposes, a Digital SLR will do pretty much everything any film SLR might have done, and can help teach as much about USING a camera... which is only a fraction of photography, as an older Film SLR might.

IF you want to....

A completely manual, unautomated Film SLR like the Zenith, doesn't give you any choices. You have to learn to use a meter, you have to learn to set the controls, it wont do anything for you, you CANT be 'lazy'... and you cant work as fast, which may mean it encourages you to be more disciplined, and learn to use the camera to best effect, and to think a bit more about what you are doing.... as does every frame exposed costing you 20-50p a time......

Last of the era film cameras with Auto-Focus and often almost as many automatic exposure modes, as a Digital SLR may not impose such constraints or encourage such disipline or thought, and merely impose a financial cost to every frame.

Its not the capture medium, therfore, its the degree of automation within the camera itself, and how much of it you choose to exploit or not.

I can hapily take pictures on the Nikon on 'Auto' and let it do all the work, metering and translating Exposure Values to Shutter-Speed and Aparture settings for me; letting me worry about nothing more than framing my scene the way I want it. I can just as hapily drop it onto Aparture Priority mode, so that I can take more control of my depth of focus when composing the picture. And I might only worry about fully manual modes if and when I am shooting something more tricky, and I dont trust the camera to cope with it as well as I could..... though to be honest... those instances are few, and probably fewer than the times I do use manual settings!

So, the camera.... only a very small part of 'photography', and its an impliment; a tool; it wont 'teach' you anything. It has little or no means of imparting knowledge to you. It has no 'knowledge' to impart. Its a 'stupid' machine that just follows dumb instructions, if it does anything at all.

Film camera or Digital, how much you may HAVE to learn to use it depends on how much automation is bult into the camera.

How much it may encourage you to learn about exploiting the camera controls, is pretty much entirely dependent on how much of the automation you choose to use, how much manual control you choose to use. But to 'learn' you need to go get the knowledge how to exploit that control some-where else.

So it really shouldn't matter what sort of camera you choose. Digital or Film. There's pro's and con's either way.

Digital? Cameras tend to be more expensive to buy in the first instance, but can be a lot cheaper to run per frame after that. They tend to offer a lot more in-built automation, and can be quick and easy to use and dont demand much from the photographer, though possibility to take command is still there.

Film? Upfront the hardware can be a lot cheaper; particularly as most tend to be second hand, and you can get a much 'better' camera for your cash; But frame by frame paying for film & processing, its more expensive to run. USUALY with less automation, they demand more input from the photographer, so they have to gain knowledge how to use it, before they can put it to best use.
 
I find the idea that you can learn photography better with film ludicrous.

Because that's how I learned and I watch learners nowadays picking up knowledge in months that would take years with film. And be much more difficult too.

Histograms, blinkers, exit data are all the best tools that you could want for learning exposure.

But that's only the easy part. Lighting and timing and composition are the important parts and there's no better tool for that than the Internet. Unless you have a lot of money to spend and you pay for proper training.
 
Having started on digital and gone 'backwards' into film I hate to think how much longer it would have taken me to know what I know now had I gone to film first. Digital makes it massively easy to learn how the various aspects of exposure work compared to film!
 
I find the idea that you can learn photography better with film ludicrous.

I think it depends on the person. If you want to learn and you know that each film shot is costing you money, then you will probably learn quickly.

And sometimes digital can make the lazy person just snap a huge amount of shots in the hope that there is a good one amongst them and never learn a thing.


Steve.
 
I think it depends on the person. If you want to learn and you know that each film shot is costing you money, then you will probably learn quickly.

And sometimes digital can make the lazy person just snap a huge amount of shots in the hope that there is a good one amongst them and never learn a thing.

Steve.
Just because you can shoot thousands of shots on digital without learning anything, doesn't make that the fault of the medium.

As someone who learnt on film, I'd have loved the exif and instant feedback of digital.

Film requires a notebook and a lot of discipline to learn accurately from your mistakes, that's not my idea of good fun.
 
I think it depends on the person. If you want to learn and you know that each film shot is costing you money, then you will probably learn quickly.
...
Steve.

I missed this.

It's a guess. Ask any of us that learnt on film, the cost didn't make it easier, it just made it frustrating and expensive. For the disciplined, with their notepads, and a studious personality, they might have got a very poor version of the potential you have with digital.
 
I really do agree with Phil. I learned on film and it was an excruciatingly expensive and slow 20 year process. What digital has done is open the door to my creativity in a way that film never could. Experimenting and pushing boundaries is now an option like never before, because the limitations of expense and time/opportunity are gone forever.
 
And there are some things that are commonplace today, that you just wouldn't take on shooting film.

Strobist flash for example, using multiple remote guns outdoors, balancing very complex exposures with relative ease, has opened up a whole new creative sector.

Very long exposures with 10-stop ND filters is another. With film, exposures more than a couple of seconds become increasingly unpredictable due to reciprocity failure, and with colour film you quickly run into uncorrectable colour shifts as well, for the same reason.
 
I agree with Phil, it certainly didnt make it easier, especially cost wise and even though I processed & printed my own shots back then I still found I had to limit myself to 2x24 shot rolls a week.

I was fairly undisciplined back then, I didn't keep a notebook and freely admit that as soon as I could afford a more automated camera than my old Nikon FM I switched (Canon EOS 620)

Then everything I used to HAVE to do, ie shoot manual with manual focus went out the window as I used the automated modes on the canon.
I soon found that I'd go out for the day and get through my 2 rolls in no time at all.

Later on transferring to digital it was automated modes & ISO in the main with little regard for how many shots I took each day.
In part I ignored manual as I could only afford a consumer dslr and it had no direct manual access.
But it has to be said that there are a lot of amateur shooters who will hardly ever use manual and rely more and more on the ever increasing levels of automation built in to each new release.
In this respect I can understand some saying that in not having to shoot the way we used to and learn how to get the most from a film camera, that they are missing out on learning an important skill.

Recently I was fortunate enough to be able to sell my canon gear and get a Fuji X-pro1, a camera thats taken a step back in some ways from the levels of automation we have come to expect in dslr's, its not a dslr and behaves more like the old film camera's in some respects.
At first I like others found it disconcerting, but then I realised that the camera expects you to do some of the work and have a certain level of experience/knowledge of manual use.

I mention all this as its taken me full circle, I found the x-pro very similar in some respects to my old Nikon FM, the top plate mounted shutter speed dial, the aperture ring,doing exposure compensation the old way, using those two controls etc.

The net result was that I picked up a now cheap Nikon FM & 50mm from ebay to use along side it.

I'm not a pro, so time & pressure aren't things I have to worry about, I can enjoy the fact that both camera's have made me slow down and not only put more thought into the shot but also think about if the shot is one I really want to take.

I also have been keeping a note book now, writing down things I find, settings, etc.

Maybe its my age or nostalgia but film still has an allure for me, but I still have that excitement when I think I've taken a good shot whether its waiting to see it on the computer screen or waiting for a disc or prints to arrive.
 
I think digital has the potential to be a better learning tool than film but the majority of users will keep it set to automatic or programme and not learn much. As enthusiastic users though, we are not in that majority.

This was the same with film cameras though once AE and AF were invented.

Now it's much cheaper to take lots of shots and learn nothing!

I'm not like normal people though. If I take a digital camera out, I will take about the same number of shots as I would with film. i.e. not many!


Steve.
 
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I started with a Film SLR many years ago and learned nothing, once I got my DSLR a lot of the theory I read and tried with the film camera clicked and it was, and still is, easier to try things with the digital. I have since regressed to film cameras primarily, more for the tactile experience from taking to developing. I personally spend too much time in a day using computers and I find a DSLR too much like a computer with a terrible interface, plus I like the aesthetic of film but again its a personal preference.

I'd not be with out my D3100 its just not the first camera I reach for.
 
I started with a Film SLR many years ago and learned nothing

I think you need to be involved with the whole process right through to printing (or shoot slides) to learn from film. If you use a 35mm SLR with negative film and get lab prints, the film's lattitude and the lab's automatic correction will hide a lot of errors.

Once you start printing, you quickly learn how you want your negatives to look.


Steve.
 
You're probably right about shooting slides, I'd probably have stuck with it much more if could have afforded to make 6x6 transparencies...
 
6x9 is the biggest transparency I have made so far. I'm thinking about running some transparency film through my 6x12 camera. I have only used black and white with it so far. With only six shots per roll though, I have to make sure it's worth it!


Steve.
 
Depends what you want to learn about photography really, doesn't it?

But, Cameras do NOT teach 'Photography', they cant even teach you how to use a camera!

(Though my Nikon has a 'Guide' setting that's supposed to offer tutorial advice and tips! Maybe these will become more common and more useful on entry level cameras, like mine... but no... its no 'Teacher'... you'd learn more, reading a book!)

I started to get a bit keen in 1989, when I started Uni & my Dad gave me an old Olympus OM10. Now he'd always been a keen snapper, but after Uni I moved back to the family farm and was a bit surprised when I asked my Gran if she minded me developing slide film in her kitchen.....

It was a revealing excersise; I knew that before she was married my Gran was a registered Pharmasist, and that her mother was a school-teacher... what I DIDN'T know was that my great grandmother.... was a keen ameteur photographer...... an interest she persued from childhood, encouraged by HER Dad!

So, when I asked about developing my own film..... promted storied from my Gran about learning photography from her mother when she was a kid.... and how it got her interested in chemistry, which lead her to become a pharmasist!

Anyhow... repeating the anacdotes; My Gran was born in 1920, I think, so we're talking late 1920's early 1930's, and her helping her mum, prepare prepare wet-plates! So no box brownie stuff here, SERIOUSE photography for the era!

And My Grans part, started (remember, family were farmers) going and collecting the eggs.... then seperating the yoke for the white, and using the yoke to make a proper custard for tea, so they weren't wasted, but leaving the white to make the film emulsion, to be spread on the wet plates!

Next she would have to cycle to the village, and get a list of ingredients from the Chemist that would be nie on impossible these days.... I know silver nitrate was a key ingredient, but I have a feeling that arsenic was used as well, and think I remember her mentioning antimony? Black-Magic this lot!

So, having got the egg-white and chemicals, a photographic emulsion had to be brewed.... in the dark... then spread on the glass plates, and then dried in the airing cupboard!

This is all before you get any where NEAR a camera!

All incredibly interesting stuff..... but do you really need or want to know about it these days when you can pop into boots and buy a roll of Kodak's finest?

So, plates prepared..... you can take a photo..... Field camera... a wooden box with a hole infront for the lens, and a plate of ground glassin the back, the view-finder and a bit of black velvet over the top so you can see it..... all on a wooden tripod....

They lived in the Cotswoulds, so aparently the camera would be put on the gig and they would go have a picnic in the hills, while my Gt Gran looked around and chose spot to place the camera.... then she would replace the view-screen with a prepared plate, remove the lens cap, and go eat her sandwhiches while she made an exposure.... timing it with her little wrist watch! Three or four plates later..... they would go home.

Next comes making a print. Gran sent out to collect the eggs, and more custard made..... aparently my Great Grandad always knew when my Gt Gran was going to do some photography..... she'd start by cutting rhubarb... for the crumble.... to go with the custard!

And the plate preparation job repeated, only on cartridge paper 'sized' over a wooden frame like for an artists water-colour.... and back to the aring cupboard. THEN the exposed plates would be developed.

And on a sunny afternoon, 'prints' would be made by contact printing, the developed plate, against a sized and coated bit of cartridge paper, on the kitchen windowsill.... before the print was developed....
And she had a photograph or four.

All rather tedius when you can just drop a roll of 36 frames into Boots and get prints back in an hour!

And utterly redundant, in modern times, when you can go straight from view-finder to paper, within a few clicks of a button!

Do you want or need to know any of this old craft, in modern photography?

It's all very very interesting, and incredibly involving, and you get to know and understand as well as control the entire process from start to finish........ But how relevent is that to what you want to do? And hardly any of it involves the actual camera!

Using a more modern SLR Film camera.... the versatility & capability and the operation is much the same as a modern DSLR, and both can offer as much manual control.

I have an old Zenith Film SLR, which has no Through The lens (TTL) metering; just shutter-speed control, aparture on the lens. To take a photo, I have to meter by eye, or hand-held meter, and then apply settings to the camera.

Putting my Nikon DSLR on 'Manual' I have TTL metering telling me if the settings I have selected will give over or under exposure... this is pretty much the same as my Sigma Film SLR, that is fully manual, but with a swing needle in the view-finder TTL Meter, to save having a hand held meter.

I have OM4, which has both Through the lens metering, AND automatic exposure, by aparture priority... I select the aparture on the lens..... electronics in the camera set the apropriate shutter speed according to meter reading... Nikon has the same feature, if I select 'Aparture Priority' setting. It also has a 'Shutter-Priority' setting, that some other cameras of the same era as my Olly had; you select the shutter speed, camera selects apropriate aparture.

OM10, used a 'centre weighted average' metering system... taking an average meter reading over the whole veiwfinder area, but guessing that the most important bit is the bit in the middle. This is one of the metering options on the Nikon.

OM4 had centre weighted metering..... but also had 'spot' metering..... press a button and it would give an exposure value based on whatever was in the middle ring of the view-finder focus spot. Again, this is possible on the Nikon. As in the OM4's multi-spot averaging meter function, I put centre spot over something in the scene, and press button, to tell the camera if its a highlight or low-light, and I can take I think seven samples that the camera then averages to get an optimum exposure value. Nikon can do this too (I think!) BUT will do the same thing 'automatically' in its 'matrix meter mode'.

But the DSLR goes on... it has a whole dial of 'auto' modes, 'auto', portrait, landscape; sport; macro.... AND it's auto-focus, so I dont even have to touch the lens, it will do almost everything but point itself and press the shutter!

There are two features, most of my old film cameras had that are missing from the Digital; A Hyper-Focal scale on the lens, so I can work out what will be in acceptable focus between aparture marks, and A Depth of Field preview button... but it has a preview screen on the back.

So to all extents and purposes, a Digital SLR will do pretty much everything any film SLR might have done, and can help teach as much about USING a camera... which is only a fraction of photography, as an older Film SLR might.

IF you want to....

A completely manual, unautomated Film SLR like the Zenith, doesn't give you any choices. You have to learn to use a meter, you have to learn to set the controls, it wont do anything for you, you CANT be 'lazy'... and you cant work as fast, which may mean it encourages you to be more disciplined, and learn to use the camera to best effect, and to think a bit more about what you are doing.... as does every frame exposed costing you 20-50p a time......

Last of the era film cameras with Auto-Focus and often almost as many automatic exposure modes, as a Digital SLR may not impose such constraints or encourage such disipline or thought, and merely impose a financial cost to every frame.

Its not the capture medium, therfore, its the degree of automation within the camera itself, and how much of it you choose to exploit or not.

I can hapily take pictures on the Nikon on 'Auto' and let it do all the work, metering and translating Exposure Values to Shutter-Speed and Aparture settings for me; letting me worry about nothing more than framing my scene the way I want it. I can just as hapily drop it onto Aparture Priority mode, so that I can take more control of my depth of focus when composing the picture. And I might only worry about fully manual modes if and when I am shooting something more tricky, and I dont trust the camera to cope with it as well as I could..... though to be honest... those instances are few, and probably fewer than the times I do use manual settings!

So, the camera.... only a very small part of 'photography', and its an impliment; a tool; it wont 'teach' you anything. It has little or no means of imparting knowledge to you. It has no 'knowledge' to impart. Its a 'stupid' machine that just follows dumb instructions, if it does anything at all.

Film camera or Digital, how much you may HAVE to learn to use it depends on how much automation is bult into the camera.

How much it may encourage you to learn about exploiting the camera controls, is pretty much entirely dependent on how much of the automation you choose to use, how much manual control you choose to use. But to 'learn' you need to go get the knowledge how to exploit that control some-where else.

So it really shouldn't matter what sort of camera you choose. Digital or Film. There's pro's and con's either way.

Digital? Cameras tend to be more expensive to buy in the first instance, but can be a lot cheaper to run per frame after that. They tend to offer a lot more in-built automation, and can be quick and easy to use and dont demand much from the photographer, though possibility to take command is still there.

Film? Upfront the hardware can be a lot cheaper; particularly as most tend to be second hand, and you can get a much 'better' camera for your cash; But frame by frame paying for film & processing, its more expensive to run. USUALY with less automation, they demand more input from the photographer, so they have to gain knowledge how to use it, before they can put it to best use.

wow....thats a great story....do you have any of your Gran's plates still? I love old family photos....sadly my family were all box brownie owners so our photographic history is somewhat lacking.
 
aparently my Great Grandad always knew when my Gt Gran was going to do some photography..... she'd start by cutting rhubarb... for the crumble.... to go with the custard!

Brilliant! :lol: Very interesting tale, how things have changed eh?
 
wow....thats a great story....do you have any of your Gran's plates still? I love old family photos....sadly my family were all box brownie owners so our photographic history is somewhat lacking.
Unfortunately not.
But not to be expected really; apparently the plates were all re-used, after making a print.... apparently if you left them too long they started to stink like.... well... rotten eggs... makes sense really, doesn't it!:lol:
I don't know of any prints that survived either.
Brilliant! :lol: Very interesting tale, how things have changed eh?
:lol: I actually chuckled as I remembered and typed the rhubarb comment... had to explain the whole post to my O/H
 
apparently the plates were all re-used, after making a print.... apparently if you left them too long they started to stink

Last year I attended a workshop on albumen printing. It's the same process of using egg white, silver nitrate and salt but coated onto paper. The prints look great and can last a long time if processed properly.


Steve.
 
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