An Independent Scotland?

They do the same thing the day after by-elections. Whichever party won, somehow all of them consider it to be a victory!
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I agree, and it's of equally dubious accuracy then as well.

Take it to assembly level, the SNP claim to have a mandate to Govern Scotland, but less than 25% of eligable voters voted for them.

And yet, they have told everyone ad nausea that Westminster doesn't have a mandate to Govern Scotland. If you hold that as true, nor do they.
 
Commiserations to all Scots who were hoping to wake up this morning free of the westminster carpetbaggers. Fear prevailed over hope :(
 
Oh, well done to the Scots for sticking with us too.
 
Good morning Scotland

First I wish to say I am highly relived that I am still British the UK will now have changed and 45% saying the rUK are poor bed fellows is a terrible pity.

May all my fellow tp members be safe and sound and the rift that had been now heals and perhaps the yes voters can feel included as time goes on

Allan
 
Even though it's been a solid 'victory' for the No campaign, a significant number of Scottish residents voted for independence. Hopefully things will progress without recrimination and bad feeling in Scotland and the rest of the UK.

I'm puzzled by comments along the lines of 'we will get independence next time'... If there had been a Yes vote would there have been a future vote to join the union? I don't think so, it would have been a permanent separation. So I don't understand the basis for a future referendum on this. The chance for independence has come and gone. Suck it up. It's now time to work together to make the UK a better place.
 
Disaster

we are now going to be faced with constant political debate on our TV screens for years to come from self promoting, self interested politicians who will never agree.

The amount of verbal diarrhoea that will exude from the main political leaders will overwhelm the airwaves

we need less Government and fewer more skilled MPs ……. but will the future lead to this …….. no, there will be more "jobs for the boys"

- would anyone in their right minds give more powers to Rotherham and the like ………. many things need sorting before we can trust any Labour controlled Council
 
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GeeJay57 said:
Even though it's been a solid 'victory' for the No campaign, a significant number of Scottish residents voted for independence. Hopefully things will progress without recrimination and bad feeling in Scotland and the rest of the UK.

I'm puzzled by comments along the lines of 'we will get independence next time'... If there had been a Yes vote would there have been a future vote to join the union? I don't think so, it would have been a permanent separation. So I don't understand the basis for a future referendum on this. The chance for independence has come and gone. Suck it up. It's now time to work together to make the UK a better place.
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I think next time will be a long long long time off ;);)
 
and the thing to remember north of the border is that cameron will now talk a great game about all the gifts and devolved powers you will get for sticking with us .... but won't commit to deliver any of them until after the election, when if he loses his promises will be ignored, and if he wins they'll be quietly forgotten.
 
An interesting night. Even though I wanted a No vote and personality wise Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon do nothing for me, I think the SNP should be congratulated.

They brought an issue to the electorate which caused a lot of good debate around Scotland and galvanised the electorate enough to get a high registration to vote and a very high turnout, Glasgow excepted, though in a general election 75% would be high.

I hope that in getting a No vote the coalition and whoever is in power after next May's election keeps to the pledges of real change and do not try to sell it short.

It could, of course, make some of the English regions think about their position and I'm not sure that would necessarily be a bad thing.

Perhaps it could also give some impetus to wider electoral reform, which we could do with. Isn't part of the high turnout because the independence issue was something people felt involved with? In the current system there is once every five years vote. Once the wining party get in they do what they want as quickly as possible because five years passes very quickly and the main parties are not different enough for a lot of the electorate to be interested.

I don't have any answers as to what system we could have but there must be some way, I hope, that can get more people interested in what happens in their country.


Dave
 
somehow people have been led to believe that politicians have changed (for the better) ………… fools paradise

Politicians have not changed, they are still as they were last month …………… as bad as they have always been ………..

Stop dreaming, the nightmare is just about to start
 
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OFFICIAL TP Jokes Thread

"Cameron, Brown, Milliband, and Clegg have promised new powers to Scotland" - and Northern England, and Wales and NI
 
Fantastic result all round. The Scots have shown their support for the UK which IMHO is one THE best places in the world to live.

Also a truly magnificent demonstration of democracy at work. Differences settled with argument and voting, not the gun.
 
No result confirmed. Check
Collect from William Hill. Check
Pound strengthens. Check
Buy more dollars ahead of trip. Check

It was always going to be. And don't look to Salmond to resign. He's a Maoist at heart so he won't, you're stuck with him.
 
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If only we could have a similar vote on independence from the EU!

Listen, we may moan about parties and politicians and how they lie and cheat, remember though that ours are probably as decent as you will get in most parts of the world...u just need to look at Italy or even the EU for proof of that! Not perfect, no, but far from awful, as is our justice system, police and NHs.
 
cambsno said:
If only we could have a similar vote on independence from the EU!

Listen, we may moan about parties and politicians and how they lie and cheat, remember though that ours are probably as decent as you will get in most parts of the world...u just need to look at Italy or even the EU for proof of that! Not perfect, no, but far from awful, as is our justice system, police and NHs.
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I agree that UK MP's may be a lot better than those in other countries and that the UK is a great place to live …….. but that is not enough ………… MPs and the Westminster parliamentary system must be reformed and changed if "we" are to move forward

The UK gets the politicians that we don't vote for ………… Scotland did get what they voted for ……. to still be ruled by the UK/Westminster …… that is what they have voted for

I'm a cynic as you probably gathered
 
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ScotlandComesHomesmall_zps19eff811.jpg
 
Now this is resolved, next up in the constitutional reform category should be:

1) The West Lothian question.
2) The fact that there are more MPs per voter in Scotland (and in Wales) than in England. The constituencies should be resized to be equitable.
 
onomatopoeia said:
Now this is resolved, next up in the constitutional reform category should be:

1) The West Lothian question.
2) The fact that there are more MPs per voter in Scotland (and in Wales) than in England. The constituencies should be resized to be equitable.
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Which would significantly reduce the influence of Scotland and Wales in Westminster - already a problem becasuse they don't feel they can control things to suit themselves.
 
The basic problem is that Westminster, many MP's and the two main political parties are not fit for purposes.

Because of their actions they are unpopular, not credible and in general not trusted by the general public.

Unless the basic fundamentals are changed, (which they won't be), life will go on "as is" but dressed up in a different way.

Too many vested interests amongst the herd of MP's to agree on anything

Scotland, why would you ever trust Cameron or even Milliband and certainly not Brown …. the rest of the UK doesn't?

(my personal view was that I wanted Scotland to stay in the UK)
 
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BillN_33 said:
The basic problem is that Westminster, many MP's and the two main political parties are not fit for purposes.

Because of their actions they are unpopular, not credible and in general not trusted by the general public.

Unless the basic fundamentals are changed, (which they won't be), life will go on "as is" but dressed up in a different way.

Too many vested interests amongst the herd of MP's to agree on anything

Scotland, why would you ever trust Cameron or even Milliband and certainly not Brown …. the rest of the UK doesn't?

(my personal view was that I wanted Scotland to stay in the UK)
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Politicians need to be popular to win elections, but then need to do unpopular things when in office. It's a Catch-22 situation if ever there was one.
 
onomatopoeia said:
Now this is resolved, next up in the constitutional reform category should be:

1) The West Lothian question.
2) The fact that there are more MPs per voter in Scotland (and in Wales) than in England. The constituencies should be resized to be equitable.
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You might remember the LibDems scuppered constituency reform 18 months ago in a tit for tat drive by shooting after their desire for en elected upper house was outvoted!

It's "impressive" how our political parties can abandon their awowed manifesto aims of thirty, forty or fifty years for a bit of short term gain! Boundary reform would, this time, have increased the likelihood of a Tory majority Government after 2015 and, without coalition and influence, would have meant that the parliamentary LibDems would have reneged on their tuition fee promises [which were less than ten years old, not fifty] for ony one period of 5 years in power and authority!

As for the West Lothian question, Douglas Alexander is already cautioning against "knee-jerk reactions" which, entirely coincidentally [ :rolleyes: ], would hugely reduce his party's influence in the Commons!

It's nice however, to learn that Tam Dalyell is still alive. That's the sort of peer I want in the upper house. Not always right but unafraid! Not an elected party wonk blindly following the whip!
 
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Got to say I'm disappointed to see so little posting from the Yes camp of TP but for one sore post about vote rigging...I guess it shows they really don't take defeat too well at all :( and that to me is the saddest thing
 
MWHCVT said:
Got to say I'm disappointed to see so little posting from the Yes camp of TP but for one sore post about vote rigging...I guess it shows they really don't take defeat too well at all :( and that to me is the saddest thing
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To be honest, it wasn't too pretty in the run up to it either...there was no questioning or self analysis....
 
dejongj said:
To be honest, it wasn't too pretty in the run up to it either...there was no questioning or self analysis....
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No your right it wasn't too pretty at all :( but if the vote had gone the other way I'm sure a reasonable number of the no camp would offer congratulations no matter how disappointed they would be...as one of the small band of nutters that sat up on TP on this thread pretty much till the death last night/this morning I was also surprised not to see a single pro voice in the thread
 
Agreed, it was like we were more interested in it than those suggesting they wanted the vote.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Which would significantly reduce the influence of Scotland and Wales in Westminster - already a problem becasuse they don't feel they can control things to suit themselves.
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Personally I feel we are going to get some cobbled together, mishmash of reforms that will not address the fundamental wishes and aspirations of the Scots, English, Irish or Welsh. It's going to be all about political expediency and sticking a plaster over a running wound.
 
Now all we need to do is take away and devolutionary powers from Scotland as a punishment for getting uppity in the first place :lol:
 
Salmond should really fall on his sword and go. So should Sturgeon.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Cameron turns around and says we will work with Scotland and start afresh but not with the current First Minister or Deputy. Elect a new one.
 
For Cameron and Brown to apparently agree on such major issues, (forget their monkey's Clegg and Milliband), cannot have been done for altruistic or even political reasons, it was done for their own personal reasons.

Presumably the arguments will start tomorrow
 
Haven't took much interest in the whole thing, mainly because as an English person didn't have any influence in the outcome

Obviously seen some news reports and the main thing that struck me was the yes campaign had next to no actual financial figures. Surely they knew that questions would be asked and I would have thought it was paramount to their campaign
Only conclusions that can be drawn are they didn't bother or they did and the findings would have been fatal

Not having much knowledge of the people involved, but I get the feeling that Mr Salmond probably wouldn't listen too intently to advisors. Presumably it was the financial angle that swayed a large percentage of the electorate, know its vagueness would have concerned me
 
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