An Independent Scotland?

Rewriting the constitution "on the hoof" without any discussion or consultation is hardly a good idea.
Click to expand...

It would be if we had a written constitution which we don't.

I am not too sure that us getting Independence from Scotland is too bad an idea. Might be a bit bumpy for starters, but I doubt it'll be as bad as some would want to paint it. England, NI and Wales can be a prosperous Country without the yoke of Edinburgh!
 
Best reason to vote no was on the radio this morning. Pearce Morgan will leave the UK for good if you all vote no :)

Ps or which ever way you spell his name ;)
 
StewartR said:
And the further irony is that, once independent, studying childcare at a Scottish college might no longer be free. Currently, non-UK EU students are allowed free education in Scotland, and it is only non-Scottish UK students who have to pay. Clearly that would have to change in some way after independence, assuming Scotland is in the EU, because they wouldn't be allowed to discriminate between UK and other EU students.

Yes Scotland says that their preferred option is to charge all non-Scottish students, and that "lawyers acting for Universities Scotland have provided advice that Scotland could justify continuing to charge students from other parts of the UK, without reforming the free tuition provided to students from Scotland".

However if you read that legal advice, it turns out that Yes Scotland have added a tiny little bit if spin here: "could" means "might be able to" and not "would be able to". They might, but they might not. (The legal precedents imply that simply claiming they couldn't afford it wouldn't be adequate justification in the EU courts, though other arguments are possible.)
Click to expand...
Funny how when we use the word "could" it's called spin, but when anyone else uses it, it's either fact, or they forget the true meaning of the word.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
You could argue that it is if it's a 'spent conviction'
Click to expand...

It's not. It's declarable for unsure above for five years after the offence date and in my criminal/court record for ten years. A criminal record for this it's like chlamydia that goes untreated. You have it for so long, people think it's bad you have it, but it makes zero difference to your day to day life.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Funny how when we use the word "could" it's called spin, but when anyone else uses it, it's either fact, or they forget the true meaning of the word.
Click to expand...
No it's not funny. "Could" is an ambiguous word which can mean either "might be able to" or "would be able to". I think the meaning which would be inferred most frequently would be the latter, but in this case the meaning implied is actually the former. I don't think that's an accident.
 
StewartR said:
No it's not funny. "Could" is an ambiguous word which can mean either "might be able to" or "would be able to". I think the meaning which would be inferred most frequently would be the latter, but in this case the meaning implied is actually the former. I don't think that's an accident.
Click to expand...
Agree. It certainly doesn't mean will, which is what most no campaigners take it to mean when prices could go up, companies could move etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dod
Definitely lots of people not prepared to admit they're voting no or worried about putting no posters up for fear of the inteligenti.
 
dinners said:
Definitely lots of people not prepared to admit they're voting no or worried about putting no posters up for fear of the inteligenti.
Click to expand...

Kind of makes you wonder how many people when polled are saying yes to the pollsters for the same reason...it's going to be an interesting time...
 
My 17 year old son is voting 'No' on Thursday. He has already told me be is going to the polls wearing a Union Jack - but then he would, he is English by birth. Just happens to be domiciled in Scotland. He feels that strongly about it.

I d suggested he might want to reconsider this but he's adamant thats what he want to do. I do feel concerned about the escalation in street violence.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
My 17 year old son is voting 'No' on Thursday. He has already told me be is going to the polls wearing a Union Jack - but then he would, he is English by birth. Just happens to be domiciled in Scotland. He feels that strongly about it.

I d suggested he might want to reconsider this but he's adamant thats what he want to do. I do feel concerned about the escalation in street violence.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with that - I'll be wearing my England Shirt (y)
 
Blank_Canvas said:
My 17 year old son is voting 'No' on Thursday. He has already told me be is going to the polls wearing a Union Jack - but then he would, he is English by birth. Just happens to be domiciled in Scotland. He feels that strongly about it.

I d suggested he might want to reconsider this but he's adamant thats what he want to do. I do feel concerned about the escalation in street violence.
Click to expand...

This makes me sad and mad at the same time. Clearly the Yes campaign are resorting to intimidation and threats of violence otherwise you wouldn't actually be worried about this.

It makes me really mad how Salmond just dismisses it each time he's asked on TV as though it isn't really a problem.
 
As a concerned Dad I am worried. Mates he has grown up with have turned there back on him as he is English and voting No. His mates are Scottish and voting 'yes' - they were all really good mates and it's never been an issue until recently, now it's all turning a bit ugly.
 
Perhaps the saddest bit for both Scotland and the UK is the violence and intimidation which seems to be happening between people who actually inhabit Scotland - its heartbreaking that people who lived peacefully together are now becoming hostile to each other in their own region. It is also shameful that the leaders of the groups seeking independence are silently condoning and encouraging bullying and bad behaviour by not speaking against it. Really, are such people good potential leaders? Will they behave any more decently when ruling their people? I understand Scotland wanting to leave the UK - personally I would break away from London if I was able to (independence for the West Country!) so I am not criticising peoples wish to leave, only the awful behaviour it is releasing and apparently being used to excuse.

Scotland can leave the UK behind, but can they leave the now open and hostile divide among the Scottish residents behind - its the sort of thing that can linger.

It just seems so sad. I hope whichever way the vote goes, the result will be worth the costs that everyday people have to put up with, as opposed to those in power - on either side .
 
I find keeping the queen mystifying to be honest. Scotland wants independence but is happy for its land to be owned by landlords from other countries! Besides the queen has no real day to day power to protect any of us from politicians. She did not block Blair or Thatcher, both utterly destructive rulers in my own view - she oversaw them bringing misery or death to huge numbers of people.

I dont want Scotland to leave, but sympathise with a wish to. I wonder where this will stop though. As Cornish people are now a minority group according to the EU (puzzling to my Cornish friend) I presume after Wales goes 'indie' so will Cornwall. Then why not Devon and Norfolk. Why not the village where I live, given I dont like Londons egocentric politics?

I wish the people of Scotland well, whatever happens. I cant say I feel the same for most politicians though, too many of them looking after their own interests and egos instead of representing their employers, the people - and I think there is no escaping that, whoever wins/rules at the moment.
 
MidnightUK said:
I find keeping the queen mystifying to be honest. Scotland wants independence but is happy for its land to be owned by landlords from other countries! Besides the queen has no real day to day power to protect any of us from politicians. She did not block Blair or Thatcher, both utterly destructive rulers in my own view - she oversaw them bringing misery or death to huge numbers of people.

I dont want Scotland to leave, but sympathise with a wish to. I wonder where this will stop though. As Cornish people are now a minority group according to the EU (puzzling to my Cornish friend) I presume after Wales goes 'indie' so will Cornwall. Then why not Devon and Norfolk. Why not the village where I live, given I dont like Londons egocentric politics?

I wish the people of Scotland well, whatever happens. I cant say I feel the same for most politicians though, too many of them looking after their own interests and egos instead of representing their employers, the people - and I think there is no escaping that, whoever wins/rules at the moment.
Click to expand...



Says who?
Not everyone wants Independence. We will soon find out...

I have seen no bullying about Yes or No in my daily comings and goings.
I suspect it's rare or dependent on where you are.
 
Scotland wants Independence ?

Whichever way the vote goes it's fair to say that's not the case.

If (as we're led to believe) it's a slim majority either way then it's just divided people.
 
Last edited:
If some of Scotland want independence! Happy to correct that, my error :-)

I hope the reports of bulling are indeed exaggerated or in only small areas. Milliband seemed to get a rough ride today according to reports, had to give up on his meet and greet in some shopping centre.
 
More and more reports are coming out of intimidation, bullying and now even death threats. Wow not something of the western world, and not something I would like to go independent with. Very very nasty yes campaign it is indeed.

Naturally it will be dismissed as bias like everything whilst crying wolf. It definitely is looking to become like Doomsday if this continues.
 
MidnightUK said:
If some of Scotland want independence! Happy to correct that, my error :-)

I hope the reports of bulling are indeed exaggerated or in only small areas. Milliband seemed to get a rough ride today according to reports, had to give up on his meet and greet in some shopping centre.
Click to expand...
Video and audio footage is now available and it was vile behaviour. George has received a death threat now as well.
 
MidnightUK said:
As Cornish people are now a minority group according to the EU (puzzling to my Cornish friend) I presume after Wales goes 'indie' so will Cornwall. Then why not Devon and Norfolk. Why not the village where I live, given I dont like Londons egocentric politics?
Click to expand...

And then the Isle of Wight! Someone here tried for independence back in the 1980s but didn't get very far with it.


Steve.
 
Isn't it just easier if the greater metropolitan area separates then the rest can be happy and live in socialism bliss :devil:
 
Guys, I don't condone violence of any kind, but we need to keep it in perspective. I'm not happy about any disrespectful behaviour either. I'm assuming that we are seeing the same news reports up here, and what we are seeing is a lot of shouting and heckling, I have not seen any actual violence.
I would also point out that in June, Alex Salmond also received death threats.
Not what we want to see at all, however, the vast majority of the people that I have witnessed, at work, in the streets, etc are all behaving sensibly.
Compared to things that have happened in other countries that want change, this referendum has been, in the main, a civil referendum. Comments about doomsday etc are not helpful, and only dramatise the situation further.
In my opinion, it should be expected that the campaigners for change will be out in larger numbers, will be more vocal etc, but unfortunately not all do this peacefully, and do shout, heckle, call folks traitors and liars etc.
I attended a small rally in my hometown on Saturday, where Alex Salmond turned up and was heckled by no supporters, called a traitor, a cheating liar etc.(albeit there were only a few) so it does happen on both sides. Any events that I've been to where there are supporters of both camps present, the no's have been massively outnumbered, so obviously the shouting and chanting from the yes campaigners does appear to be a lot worse.
Alex Salmond did condemn the poor behaviour from both sides on the news last night.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top