An Independent Scotland?

It's too close to call, there is a good case for both sides of the argument. The momentum seems to be with the yes camp right now but it can all change. Wouldn't be surprised to see 51%-49% in either direction.
 
gadgeteer said:
Does anyone dispute that Scotland runs a deficit even with oil taken into account??? I thought the only dispute was whether or not the deficit was better or worse than the UK's.

Which is a bit of a bizarre "postive" if you ask me. "Well.....my friend and I are both spending more money than we earn but it's OK cos he's overspending by a larger margin than I am so I don't really have a problem.

Erm....you still do!
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That's the way comrade, now you're getting it :)
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
It definitely will not be 60-65% no. If it's a no, they'll shade it by the skin of their teeth, but it won't be.
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IMHO 60% no, 40% yes.
The Yes campaign is winning the 'who can shout the loudest campaign' hands down but when it comes to actually making the decision I think more than most will opt for no.

With the lack of detail in the Yes proposal it's better the devil you know and that will sway a lot ;)
 
PaulF said:
IMHO 60% no, 40% yes.
The Yes campaign is winning the 'who can shout the loudest campaign' hands down but when it comes to actually making the decision I think more than most will opt for no.

With the lack of detail in the Yes proposal it's better the devil you know and that will sway a lot ;)
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I'd go along with that albeit closer.

I think most Yes voters were only ever going to vote Yes regardless of whether it made sense.

Same could be said but to less a degree with the No voters.

What's key are the undecided people - I can't see anything being offered up to convince the majority of them to vote Yes.
 
dinners said:
I'd go along with that albeit closer.

I think most Yes voters were only ever going to vote Yes regardless of whether it made sense.

Same could be said but to less a degree with the No voters.

What's key are the undecided people - I can't see anything being offered up to convince the majority of them to vote Yes.
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Well there isn't a box on the form for don't know, so they'd better make their minds up quick.
Maybe if they're so indecisive, they'll just not bother turning up.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Well there isn't a box on the form for don't know, so they'd better make their minds up quick.
Maybe if they're so indecisive, they'll just not bother turning up.
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If people remain undecided then I suspect they would either vote NO or not vote.
 
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Rapscallion said:
The point was that more sensitive work than loading and unloading nuclear weapons from submarines is currently taking place near large conurbations.
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If it was more sensitive then it wouldn't be near large conurbations.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Surely it's the courts that decide what penalty you receive, unless it's a fixed penalty.
Can you get a dd40 under a fixed penalty?
England has 12 times the population of Scotland, so it would he more difficult to catch folk. Do they have 12 times as many police? Not sure if they do?
I'm all for increasing the speed limit on motorways.
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Procurator fiscal makes the charges (CPS in E&W). Fiscal is given the background on the offence and makes the charge.

In E&W for offences like mine the CPS will pursue the charge of speeding (SP50) here for that offence they go for section 2. My own defence lawyer even said it was more draconian up here than in E&W.

I'd also consider population density. England has a far greater population density, far more trunk routes in a more confined area. The fact more motoring offences up here suggest three things.

1.police Scotland are damned good at catching offending motorists
2. Scots are terrible drivers
3. Police Scotland allocate more resource to road policing hence the higher conviction rate
 
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St4 should be voting yes surely. The uk driving licence will be a foreign licence so he'll be able to apply for a Scottish one, take his test and voila a clean new licence :D
 
ST4 said:
Procurator fiscal makes the charges (CPS in E&W). Fiscal is given the background on the offence and makes the charge.

In E&W for offences like mine the CPS will pursue the charge of speeding (SP50) here for that offence they go for section 2. My own defence lawyer even said it was more draconian up here than in E&W.
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Maybe in England they're a soft touch.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Blah blah blah, time to change the record I think. Road policing is only very active in Scotland because they caught you:p
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Not at all. Having driven from Edinburgh to Newcastle one fine afternoon, I could hardly believe the sheer number of speed cameras on that stretch of road. Once across the border things became much more relaxed.
 
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ST4 said:
Or up here they are unduly hard. Depends on your point of view, but one that makes me more inclined to vote no rather than yes as I'm not inclined to support something I see as draconian. IMHO
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That's a ridiculous argument. No one forced you to drive at the excessive speed you got caught doing.
How fast was it?
 
ancient_mariner said:
Not at all. Having driven from Edinburgh to Newcastle one fine afternoon, I could hardly believe the sheer number of speed cameras on that stretch of road. Once across the border things became much more relaxed.
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Wait to you see the A90. Peppered with them, but that passes through tayside, the first constabulary to introduce vehicle confiscation for drink drive. IMHO a draconian and severe punishment. Bans / fines are enough.

Asset confiscation is a punishment I don't support unless it's assets attained through crime. Like high personal taxation it's something in principle I don't support or ever will.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Not at all. Having driven from Edinburgh to Newcastle one fine afternoon, I could hardly believe the sheer number of speed cameras on that stretch of road. Once across the border things became much more relaxed.
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There's been a lot of bad accidents on that stretch of road though.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
That's a ridiculous argument. No one forced you to drive at the excessive speed you got caught doing.
How fast was it?
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No it's not. In one part of Britain you get charged with speeding and are punished for it, do the same offence further north in the country and it's tougher/more serous charges.

Why do Scottish courts/fiscal treat British motorists differently to the way their treated in the majority part of the UK? Please explain.
 
I would support vehicle confiscation for DUI. And crushing - for the driver.
 
ST4 said:
The Scots do already. Road policing is very active in Scotland and I expect it to remain so as an independent country. Given the socialist nature of the government the people here approve on, big cars will see big road taxes. It'll be like France, very punitive on high end cars and speeding motorists-much more so than the UK is. The Scottish greens hailed a 50mph limit as a good thing for the motorways, and they'll probably get it. That's the sort of government the scots will get. One that scares business away , one that punishes wealth creation and conservation, one that punishes heavily nice possessions and enjoyment of nice things. Beer swigging football chanting louts however - they'll love it
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I don't think any of that is likely to happen.
 
ST4 said:
No it's not. In one part of Britain you get charged with speeding and are punished for it, do the same offence further north in the country and it's tougher/more serous charges.

Why do Scottish courts/fiscal treat British motorists differently to the way their treated in the majority part of the UK? Please explain.
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Eh, because we are actually a different country with a different legal system.
Anyway, this thread is not about your appalling driving, however, if you feel hard done by you have several options:p And voting no won't change it.
And, they treat Scottish drivers exactly the same.
 
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Bobsyeruncle said:
Eh, because we are actually a different country with a different legal system.
Anyway, this thread is not about your appalling driving, however, if you feel hard done by you have several options:p And voting no won't change it.
And, they treat Scottish drivers exactly the same.
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Road traffic law is the same. The Scottish legal system, which IMHO should be abolished and it adopt the law of rUK, just interprets it differently.
 
ST4 said:
Road traffic law is the same. The Scottish legal system, which IMHO should be abolished and it adopt the law of rUK, just interprets it differently.
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There's no such thing as UK law. It's English law - which also applies in Wales.


Steve.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Not at all. Having driven from Edinburgh to Newcastle one fine afternoon, I could hardly believe the sheer number of speed cameras on that stretch of road. Once across the border things became much more relaxed.
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That road , the A1 by any chance?, has a real history of serious accidents on the Scottish side. Once over the border it widens to a two or three lane motorway if I'm not mistaken. A much safer road.

Regards...
 
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Hi All
Interesting one today spoke to a customer who lives in Portsmouth there is a strong contingent down there who are preying for Scotland to vote yes so as they can get Trident and the ship building down there they recon if trident is moved down there they would get the ship building thrown in to keep them sweet. When I queried Bob on the safety aspect he made me laugh and think about it afterwards. This is what he told me if the sodding things go off I won't know about it and let's be honest how many nuclear power stations will be around in the next few years. He has a point. I suppose it would bring a lot of work into the area as well. Maybe different people have different ideas on what they want.
 
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lost said:
Hi All
Interesting one today spoke to a customer who lives in Portsmouth there is a strong contingent down there who are preying for Scotland to vote yes so as they can get Trident and the ship building down there they recon if trident is moved down there they would get the ship building thrown in to keep them sweet. When I queried Bob on the safety aspect he made me laugh and think about it afterwards. This is what he told me if the sodding things go off I won't know about it and let's be honest how many nuclear power stations will be around in the next few years. He has a point. I suppose it would bring a lot of work into the area as well. Maybe different people have different ideas on what they want.
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A lot down South want the scots to vote yes. Good naval/civilian jobs, good banking jobs. Not paying for people's university and prescriptions. The self interst part would make a lot of English want a yes vote.

Me, I still feel no matter what we are one people with a shared history and heritage and personal gain should be put behind the greater thing, the conservation of Britain for all it's people
 
ST4 said:
A lot down South want the scots to vote yes. Good naval/civilian jobs, good banking jobs. Not paying for people's university and prescriptions. The self interst part would make a lot of English want a yes vote.

Me, I still feel no matter what we are one people with a shared history and heritage and personal gain should be put behind the greater thing, the conservation of Britain for all it's people
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:agree:
 
ST4 said:
English law should apply everywhere as should their education system simply as their population makes up the bulk of the UK people. Just IMHO
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Scottish law only applies in Scotland, and English law applies in England and Wales. Like it or not, Scotland is actually a different country. If you want to be governed by English law, and benefit from English education, then you can do so, by moving to England.
 
ST4 said:
A lot down South want the scots to vote yes. Good naval/civilian jobs, good banking jobs. Not paying for people's university and prescriptions. The self interst part would make a lot of English want a yes vote.

Me, I still feel no matter what we are one people with a shared history and heritage and personal gain should be put behind the greater thing, the conservation of Britain for all it's people
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How are they all going to feel if its a no vote, and we get all the extra powers etc .
 
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