An Independent Scotland?

Bernie174 said:
Mr Sillars is helping the No campaign no end with that sort of comment. Nationalisation only works in a closed market. If he thinks he can nationalise what would be a forigen company, then he's been on the turbo cabbage!
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Where exactly did he say anything about nationalisation of private companies?
 
dejongj said:
Well the kind of socialism where companies will be nationalised is normally associated with a dictatorship or end up being in one....Unless you can provide alternative example...I'd have credited you with more intelligence than questioning that ;)
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Are you talking about them wanting to reverse the privatisation of Royal Mail?
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
All he was trying to imply was that all we're interested in was getting away from the English.
Trying to imply anti English feeling, on our behalf, is not helpful.
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As a British national and born in England it is exactly as it seems

300 years of union now oil, what is Scotlands yes campaign go away the Union but of course that yes wants to keep from the rUK
 
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This German banker is throwing a lot of possible "doom and gloom" into the pot
 
Steep said:
While I wouldn't want to see it closed I do think the thread has passed the point where anything useful is being said.

That said.

I'm out.
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Just so long as you remember "Just say No!" ;)

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These German bankers are throwing a lot of doom and gloom into the pot

Deutsche Bank's Mr Folkerts-Landau has said it was "incomprehensible" that Scotland was even contemplating withdrawal from the UK.

The chief economist compared a potential "Yes" vote to the mistakes which led to the Great Depression of the 1930s.

"A 'Yes' vote for Scottish independence on Thursday would go down in history as a political and economic mistake as large as Winston Churchill's decision in 1925 to return the pound to the Gold Standard or the failure of the Federal Reserve to provide sufficient liquidity to the US banking system, which we now know brought on the Great Depression in the US," he said.

Deutsche Bank global strategist Bilal Hafeez said an independent Scotland would no longer have the Bank of England as a lender of last resort and also said independence would bring a depression to Scotland and possibly the rest of the UK.
 
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Bobsyeruncle said:
Where exactly did he say anything about nationalisation of private companies?
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It's in the linked article in my post #3673, did you miss it?

He said:

"BP, in an independent Scotland, will need to learn the meaning of nationalisation, in part or in whole, as it has in other countries who have not been as soft as we have been forced to be.
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Dave1 said:
It's in the linked article in my post #3673, did you miss it?

He said:
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Sorry, I missed that. I don't agree with what he has said, But I'm not going to worry too much about what Jim Sillars says. At the end of the day, we will have a general election after independence to vote for the party that we want to take us forward, and he probably won't have much to do with it.
 
ST4 said:
I was merely trying to help another member.

Can you please tell me how someone who is a no voter and has laid down points is stirring things? Or perhaps belligerence and ignorance is the way of things to come.
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If you can't see it, then I'm certainly not wasting any of my precious time trying to explain it to you.
And it has nothing to do with you being a no voter either.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Whatever the result is we still have to live and work together and I hope still in harmony.
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Well, that is just it, we will not. The yes camp will make a separate country and isolate British people from their fellow brethern south of the border and over the water in NI.

There will be no working with the British if Scotland gets its way and drives out British companies through their dogmatic and intended retribution as seen in that earlier article. British financial companies have made it clear they don't want to embrace iScotland due to the risks of its regulatory frame work, and are setting up base in E&W. Nevermind that prices will go in places like Asda, B&Q, places British people in Scotland shop in.
 
ST4 said:
Well, that is just it, we will not. The yes camp will make a separate country and isolate British people from their fellow brethern south of the border and over the water in NI.

There will be no working with the British if Scotland gets its way and drives out British companies through their dogmatic and intended retribution as seen in that earlier article. British financial companies have made it clear they don't want to embrace iScotland due to the risks of its regulatory frame work, and are setting up base in E&W. Nevermind that prices will go in places like Asda, B&Q, places British people in Scotland shop in.
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You might not, but we will.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
You might not, but we will.
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How do you explain that. People's jobs are at risk, the household names they shop at they'll find more expensive. There will be barriers put up rather than removed. British companies that employ people in Scotland may not want to as they'll be seen as outsourcing to a foreign country.

Having seen the lie of the land, and anti English/union/British flavour of yes campaigners on the street, I have little faith they will embrace their once fellow countrymen south of the border due to their misfounded hatred of the country they were once from.
 
ST4 said:
How do you explain that. People's jobs are at risk, the household names they shop at they'll find more expensive. There will be barriers put up rather than removed. British companies that employ people in Scotland may not want to as they'll be seen as outsourcing to a foreign country.

Having seen the lie of the land, and anti English/union/British flavour of yes campaigners on the street, I have little faith they will embrace their once fellow countrymen south of the border due to their misfounded hatred of the country they were once from.
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How do you explain that?
So no british companies operate overseas/in foreign countries?
Several companies have stated that prices may rise, not will rise. Also, several have said they don't think it will make any difference.
I don't know why you keep dredging up the so called hatred. I have not see anything any worse than I would see at a football match.
I don't agree with the comments made by Jim Sillars, and I'm sure plenty of others won't either.
At the end of the day, none of us know with any degree of certainty about prices, company relocation etc etc.
companies will base themselves wherever it suits them best financially, and for many, that may well be in Scotland, if it suits them.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
How do you explain that?
So no british companies operate overseas/in foreign countries?
Several companies have stated that prices may rise, not will rise. Also, several have said they don't think it will make any difference.
I don't know why you keep dredging up the so called hatred. I have not see anything any worse than I would see at a football match.
I don't agree with the comments made by Jim Sillars, and I'm sure plenty of others won't either.
At the end of the day, none of us know with any degree of certainty about prices, company relocation etc etc.
companies will base themselves wherever it suits them best financially, and for many, that may well be in Scotland, if it suits them.
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I see plenty of hatred due to football, this is every bit as bad.

Thats the point, you don't know. By voting no, you have not got to deal with any uncertainty at all.

BTW, watch the Asda interview, the fella said prices would simply rise. It's a fact.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Sorry, I missed that. I don't agree with what he has said, But I'm not going to worry too much about what Jim Sillars says.
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You can say that, but considering he is the right hand man to the King of Scotland, what he says won't be far from what His Oiliness says in private.

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Bobsyeruncle said:
Are you talking about them wanting to reverse the privatisation of Royal Mail?
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No I was talking about your comment regarding dictatorship...
 
BigJonDaly said:
Jeezo lads, this thread has descended into a kiddies schoolground melee.....:(
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Yup and as per usual the playground bully is never to be seen when the teach is looking other than by her side and pointing ;)
 
gadgeteer said:
I think the view from Hugh and others like him are very typical of many Scottish who are voting "Yes". The idea is that they could do better if decisions were made locally instead of from London. I get that. I think this is symptomatic of decades of Scottish MPs blaming Westminster for everything they haven't been able to do.

I mean it's easy isn't it? Don't have enough money for schools? Blame Westminster. Not enough money for the NHS? Blame Westminster. Weather a bit poor? Blame westminster. Those horrible Londoners not giving us money we want. It's easy to stand on the sidelines and throw rocks when you're not johnny on the spot.

But what happens if/when Scotland are responsible? All of a sudden that horrible Westminster boogeyman isn't there anymore. Well he is. You can still blame England for not letting you have your cake and eat it. I guess it will work for some time to come in the same way that the current government always blames the last.

Can Scotland be an independent country? Of course it can. No-one is saying it can't. Would they be better off independent? I think the case for that is at best optimistic. If it were a court of law where you had to use evidence then I think everyone would agree that the evidence presented so far from the Yes camp is at best fanciful. Is there reasonable doubt that Scotland would be better off independent? I think there's LOADS of doubts.
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Scotland can get rid of the government in Scotland if it is poor though, it can't really have the same clout if we have deeply unpopular parties like the tories in down south. The scaremongering when the polls went in favour of yes is telling me that the no camp thought it was a sure thing they would win but recently the tide is turning and they are desperate.
 
Laudrup said:
Scotland can get rid of the government in Scotland if it is poor though, it can't really have the same clout if we have deeply unpopular parties like the tories in down south. The scaremongering when the polls went in favour of yes is telling me that the no camp thought it was a sure thing they would win but recently the tide is turning and they are desperate.
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Define poor? There's a lot of hatred towards the Tories and understandably so. Naive I think but understandable. But let's put this into context. When people say they hate the Tories they usually are referring to the Thatcher years. A decadeish of Tory government in hundreds of years of union. This govt is a coalition so technically not even (fully) Tory. But let's assume it is.

Let's look at the facts. At the last election every major party accepted that major cuts had to be made in the wake of the dire financial situation. Let's not bother dredging up who is/was responsible it doesn't matter. We were where we were. The only difference between the parties was how much they'd cut. Tories said they'd cut more than Labour. In reality the Tories (coalition) actually only managed to make cuts around what Labour were saying they'd cut.

So my point is that whilst you can all sit there saying "Oh f'ing Tories etc etc." The reality is that it didn't matter who got into power, the cuts would have been pretty much the same. The only difference would be which groups would have been affected.

And same back when Thatcher was in power. 1979 wasn't exactly a socialist utopia was it? You couldn't even get your bins collected or dead buried without being a picket crossing scab.

So in reality it seems to me like the Tories are the bad guys because each time they've got to power they've inherited a right mess and had to make the bad decisions to sort things out financially.

Who will do that if you are independent? Labour? I doubt it. The SNP? Ha ha don't make me laugh. I'll tell you who it will be. It will be the markets who will cripple you with high interest rates like Greece. Of course most banks seem to like London so technically you could still blame England when someone turns off the money tap.
 
gadgeteer said:
Define poor? There's a lot of hatred towards the Tories and understandably so. Naive I think but understandable. But let's put this into context. When people say they hate the Tories they usually are referring to the Thatcher years. A decadeish of Tory government in hundreds of years of union. This govt is a coalition so technically not even (fully) Tory. But let's assume it is.

Let's look at the facts. At the last election every major party accepted that major cuts had to be made in the wake of the dire financial situation. Let's not bother dredging up who is/was responsible it doesn't matter. We were where we were. The only difference between the parties was how much they'd cut. Tories said they'd cut more than Labour. In reality the Tories (coalition) actually only managed to make cuts around what Labour were saying they'd cut.

So my point is that whilst you can all sit there saying "Oh f'ing Tories etc etc." The reality is that it didn't matter who got into power, the cuts would have been pretty much the same. The only difference would be which groups would have been affected.

And same back when Thatcher was in power. 1979 wasn't exactly a socialist utopia was it? You couldn't even get your bins collected or dead buried without being a picket crossing scab.

So in reality it seems to me like the Tories are the bad guys because each time they've got to power they've inherited a right mess and had to make the bad decisions to sort things out financially.

Who will do that if you are independent? Labour? I doubt it. The SNP? Ha ha don't make me laugh. I'll tell you who it will be. It will be the markets who will cripple you with high interest rates like Greece. Of course most banks seem to like London so technically you could still blame England when someone turns off the money tap.
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The tories are toxic in Scotland and no amount of 'big boys did it and ran away' excuses will bring them back into power here. The tories are even losing people to jumped up single issue parties like UKIP. Scottish voters should really vote in who they want to run the country and have full control over it and that would mean the end of the tories here.
 
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