An Independent Scotland?

ST4 said:
It's a belligerent lynch mob.I was in Glasgow that time, there was a lot of aggressive people all in the yes camp.
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And how many people did you see getting lynched? Absolutely none!
I could go to a yes rally and find plenty of no people heckling and shouting etc.
 
border_all said:
Why does a post have to be helpful

May would not think the referendum is helpful many on here have suggested the risk of leaving the EU if part of the union is greater is that helpful
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All he was trying to imply was that all we're interested in was getting away from the English.
Trying to imply anti English feeling, on our behalf, is not helpful.
 
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Bernie174 said:
"CU or we wont take our share of debt" Is a demand for something, and a threat if that isn't forthcoming. It's blackmail, pure and simple.
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He has not said as you quote "CU or we won't take our share of the debt"
He has stated some facts saying that if we don't get a CU, then we would be legally entitled to walk away and not take out share of the debt.
There is a difference, and even you can see that. Pure and simple.
 
ST4 said:
He has, IMHO. My work, along with a lot of others, has announced plans to HQ south of the border, the long term hope for our jobs isn't as hopeful. I pray for a no vote. I am British and do not want be British in iScotland but british in the north of britain
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So you'll be leaving Scotland? Shame:p
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Indeed rash decision,I think seriously if people don't know which way to go by now they never will. It's the last weekend to reflect and think.I think when it comes up to the wire, people will bottle it and vote 'no' just to play safe.
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I think most of them do. They don't want to get involved in any bitter arguments like on here, so it's easier to say "don't know".
Don't be so sure that they're all no's.
 
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Bobsyeruncle said:
All he was trying to imply was that all we're interested in was getting away from the English.
Trying to imply anti English feeling, on our behalf, is not helpful.
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You are, by voting yes, turning your back on being British, turning your back on the wars and veterans who fought and died to keep you, as British people, safe from foreign rule. You're turning your back on your fellow countrymen to make a new, smaller, more inward looking country, you are turning your back on UK companies that give jobs in your part of the world, to people in your part of Britian and depriving hard working people of jobs as these companies will up and go. You are denying your fellow countrymen fair prices for goods as what few companies will stay, will have to go due to the lesser economies of scale of operating in a small country.

I cannot see the logic.
 
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ST4 said:
so yes voters want people to leave just because poltically they disagree with them and they want them to lose their jobs. Nice....
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No, that's not what I said, but not surprised how you've twisted it.
 
ST4 said:
You are, by voting yes, turning your back on being British, turning your back on the wars and veterans who fought and died to keep you, as British people, safe from foreign rule. You're turning your back on your fellow countrymen to make a new, smaller, more inward looking country, you are turning your back on UK companies that give jobs in your part of the world, to people in your part of Britian and depriving hard working people of jobs as these companies will up and go. You are denying your fellow countrymen fair prices for goods as what few companies will stay, will have to go due to the lesser economies of scale of operating in a small country.

I cannot see the logic.
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We are not turning our backs on anything. We are looking forwards, not backwards. You should try it!
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
We are not turning our backs on anything. We are looking forwards, not backwards. You should try it!
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You are. Please re-read. You are turning your backs on everything that the UK has achieved over the past 400 years. And for what, some bitter, bordering on racist myopic hatred of England. Its all one country, Britain.

Rule Britannia!!!!
 
ST4 said:
You are. Please re-read. You are turning your backs on everything that the UK has achieved over the past 400 years. And for what, some bitter, bordering on racist myopic hatred of England. Its all one country, Britain.

Rule Britannia!!!!
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Bitter, racist, myopic hatred of England? Now I know what the ST in your name stand for!
Think its time for you to crawl back into your cave.
And for the record, the UK hasn't existed for 400 years.
 
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Bobsyeruncle said:
Bitter, racist, myopic hatred of England? Now I know what the ST in your name stand for!
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What does it stand for, do you know my initials, perhaps its an intimidation post?. Nice post edit - the original ending is " f*** off!!!!"

That's the social level of a yes voter I've seen so far.

You cannot even deny your bigotry, bitterness and racism to your fellow countrymen. Shameful.

Edit: will you please address this too or are you happy for your fellow countrymen to have their jobs at risk due to your vote? Tell me how that is fair please?

ST4 said:
So you'll be voting no to keep these jobs safe?
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ST4 said:
What does it stand for, do you know my initials, perhaps its an intimidation post?. Nice post edit - the original ending is " f*** off!!!!"

That's the social level of a yes voter I've seen so far.

You cannot even deny your bigotry, bitterness and racism to your fellow countrymen. Shameful.

Edit: will you please address this too
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I can deny my bigotry, bitterness and racism. I did reply f*** off originally, as that is what I said to myself when I read your ludicrous comments. My reaction would have been the same regardless of who had said it. However, as this is a family forum, I thought better of it.
Reading your posts, it is obvious that you are trying to twist things and provoke, as you do in many of your posts in other threads. That is shameful.
 
He has not said as you quote "CU or we won't take our share of the debt"
He has stated some facts saying that if we don't get a CU, then we would be legally entitled to walk away and not take out share of the debt.
There is a difference, and even you can see that. Pure and simple.
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I am not talking about Hugh, bless him, he's a low level mouthpiece for the SNP only, he only repeats what he's told, and there's no thinking behind anything he says. I am talking about the SNP themselves. I'm sorry you have chosen not to understand.

And we have already established that you can't legally walk away, you are liable for the debt.

And another thing Bob, that really irritates me about the Yes side. The constant claims about the English, and wanting to separate from them. Westminster is made up of Welsh, Irish, Scots and English. Lets be very clear here, the English aren't exclusively responsible for any perceived issues you have, its the UK, including your own Countrymen!
 
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Bobsyeruncle said:
I can deny my bigotry, bitterness and racism. I did reply f*** off originally, as that is what I said to myself when I read your ludicrous comments. My reaction would have been the same regardless of who had said it. However, as this is a family forum, I thought better of it.
Reading your posts, it is obvious that you are trying to twist things and provoke, as you do in many of your posts in other threads. That is shameful.
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Can you please address my comments about your vote denying others the security of their employment, the security of the prices they enjoy in the retail market and why you would turn your back on your fellow countrymen in England, Wales and NI. Why would you want to deny people in this part of Britain the security and benefits of being in the UK for a different brand of the tired old socialism that failed miserably in the 70's the yes voters are spouting.

You say you wish to get away from the English, a sweeping, general statement that stinks of racism, bigotry and myopic thinking. What have your fellow countrymen south of the border done to you to deserve such hatred?
 
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Bernie174 said:
I am not talking about Hugh, bless him, he's a low level mouthpiece for the SNP only, he only repeats what he's told, and there's no thinking behind anything he says. I am talking about the SNP themselves. I'm sorry you have chosen not to understand.

And we have already established that you can't legally walk away, you are liable for the debt.
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Instead of arguing about what might or might not happen, let's argue about it if it happens.
 
ST4 said:
Can you please address my comments about your vote denying others the security of their employment, the security of the prices they enjoy in the retail market and why you would turn your back on your fellow countrymen in England, Wales and NI. Why would you want to deny people in this part of Britain the security and benefits of being in the UK for a different brand of the tired old socialism that failed miserably in the 70's the yes voters are spouting.

You say you wish to get away from the English, a sweeping, general statement that stinks of racism, bigotry and myopic thinking. What have your fellow countrymen south of the border done to you to deserve such hatred?
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Ignore
 
I think the view from Hugh and others like him are very typical of many Scottish who are voting "Yes". The idea is that they could do better if decisions were made locally instead of from London. I get that. I think this is symptomatic of decades of Scottish MPs blaming Westminster for everything they haven't been able to do.

I mean it's easy isn't it? Don't have enough money for schools? Blame Westminster. Not enough money for the NHS? Blame Westminster. Weather a bit poor? Blame westminster. Those horrible Londoners not giving us money we want. It's easy to stand on the sidelines and throw rocks when you're not johnny on the spot.

But what happens if/when Scotland are responsible? All of a sudden that horrible Westminster boogeyman isn't there anymore. Well he is. You can still blame England for not letting you have your cake and eat it. I guess it will work for some time to come in the same way that the current government always blames the last.

Can Scotland be an independent country? Of course it can. No-one is saying it can't. Would they be better off independent? I think the case for that is at best optimistic. If it were a court of law where you had to use evidence then I think everyone would agree that the evidence presented so far from the Yes camp is at best fanciful. Is there reasonable doubt that Scotland would be better off independent? I think there's LOADS of doubts.
 
Bob
The difference between you and Hugh is that so far you have discussed, not simply repeated dogma. I'd prefer not to argue, but I'd also prefer direct answers, not evasion, again, not something I'd level at you.

So, if? I think it's not looking quite as cheerful to the Yes side now, and I also think they are not doing themselves any favours at the moment.
It seems to me that Salmond is ramping up for excuse time, blame the media, Businesses and of course 'the English'.
Whats more important to my mind though is that the Yes stop being dishonest with people and instead of looking for an entity to blame, looking at how they are going to heal the harm the process has done. That last bit needs to happen whatever the result.
 
ST4 said:
It is just the tired old dreged up bitter old sour grapes over things that happened decades ago. A country with a lot of people that forget nothing, but learn nothing either given by the yes campaigns inability to face the truth but dismiss facts simply as nonsense and scaremongering.
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Exactly.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Not a surprise at all, but it's not the contingency planning that's the issue here, is it?
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Depends on how the information was classified......really nothing to see here or than an attempt at smear
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Get a grip! They were heckling, shouting and booing.
Dictatorship? I'd have credited you with more intelligence than that.
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Well the kind of socialism where companies will be nationalised is normally associated with a dictatorship or end up being in one....Unless you can provide alternative example...I'd have credited you with more intelligence than questioning that ;)
 
arclight said:
SNP want independence and want to be in the EU where no one has independence, or anything remotely like it. Therefore, I can only conclude that the independence the SNP want is independence from England. Sounds nasty to me.
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Bobsyeruncle said:
And how is this post helpful to anything?
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Ahem, isn't this what this is all about....Independency, being in control, making your own local decisions....As time and time again is being demonstrated through the Yes camp actions, it just wants to get away from England but are happy to be dependent on another body....Fine by me, but lets be honest about it and not try and hide it...
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
We are not turning our backs on anything. We are looking forwards, not backwards. You should try it!
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Since when was threatening those who hold a different view forward looking?

Or even just considering nationalisation of private companies?

Slimy Salmonds mouthpiece, Jim Sillars, said the following:

He said: "This referendum is about power, and when we get a 'Yes' majority we will use that power for a day of reckoning with BP and the banks.

"The heads of these companies are rich men, in cahoots with a rich English Tory Prime Minister, to keep Scotland's poor poorer through lies and distortions. The power they have now to subvert our democracy will come to an end with a 'Yes'.

"BP, in an independent Scotland, will need to learn the meaning of nationalisation, in part or in whole, as it has in other countries who have not been as soft as we have been forced to be.

"As for the bankers: your casino days, rescued by socialisation of your liabilities while you waltz off with the profits, will be over."

Mr Sillars added: "What kind of people do these companies think we are? They will find out."
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29181989

Sounds very forward thinking and the epitome of of a modern open government...
 
Dave1 said:
Since when was threatening those who hold a different view forward looking?

Or even just considering nationalisation of private companies?

Slimy Salmonds mouthpiece, Jim Sillars, said the following:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29181989

Sounds very forward thinking and the epitome of of a modern open government...
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And the other part of the Yes campaign keep on banging on about that Scotland is one of the wealthiest countries on the planet....Yet there are so many poor ....They just can't get a single fact straight....All just very emotive...
 
Mr Sillars is helping the No campaign no end with that sort of comment. Nationalisation only works in a closed market. If he thinks he can nationalise what would be a forigen company, then he's been on the turbo cabbage!
 
While reading this thread, i am reminded of this (slightly bastardised) quote:-

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." Thomas Paine
 
dejongj said:
And the other part of the Yes campaign keep on banging on about that Scotland is one of the wealthiest countries on the planet....Yet there are so many poor ....They just can't get a single fact straight....All just very emotive...
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It's all a conspiracy by the banks (even the scottish one that failed) and westminster to keep Scotland and its people poor. Aye right. Get over yourselves. There's poor and rich people everywhere. The rich through their achievements, the poor through the lack of their achievements.
 
Dave1 said:
Since when was threatening those who hold a different view forward looking?

Or even just considering nationalisation of private companies?

Slimy Salmonds mouthpiece, Jim Sillars, said the following:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29181989

Sounds very forward thinking and the epitome of of a modern open government...
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The Draconian beligerant government our fellow British citizens seemingly want in the Northern part of Britain, Scotland.
 
fabs said:
Ok guys, this is starting to get personal again. It's almost at 100 pages and been an interesting debate, let's try to keep it civil from now on please.
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While I wouldn't want to see it closed I do think the thread has passed the point where anything useful is being said.

That said.

I'm out.
 
The problem is that people post articles or sound bites which are clearly pointless as they just promote one view.
 
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